[thedrewser]

I have been considering getting an espresso coffee machine for some time now and this weekend I had an opportunity to use one in a cottage I was staying at and it confirmed to me that I would like to get one.

However, the one I used (DeLonghi) needed to be pre-heated every use by running it without coffee in the filter, twice. To be honest, it's a bit of a faff.

Now, I understand the reason why the machine needs pre-heating but can I ask whether all machines need pre-heating or, if you pay more, can you buy machines with an auto-pre heating system.

[noise747]

Never heard of that before. I got a gaggia classic and and the group head heats up the portafilter, so no need to preheat.

sure you need to leave it on for 10 mins at least to get it hot, but no need to run water though it to preheat.

But I do run a bit of water to clear the shower and then use a paper kitchen towel to clean of the old coffee.

There are some machines that will pre-soak the coffee, leave it for a few seconds and then carry on, but they are pretty expensive, there is a name for that but I can't remember what it is.

You can not go far wrong with the gaggia machines, the problem is they have dumbed down a bit since philips took them over in that they now include a Crema add on that gives you crema even if your grind and tamping is wrong. doing that you will never really brew a decent cup of coffee because you don't learn.

So you need a machine that you can adapt to a non-pressurised system.

With my classic is was easy, I just got a different basket. Most of the grinds you find in a supermarket are useless with a espresso machine unless they say they are for espresso, so you really need a decent grinder, I got myself a Dulit. there are better ones out there, but this one was a good price and does a good job, make sure you get a burr grinder and not a chopper style.

Get a decent tamper, the ones that comes with machines are ok, but you best with a nice heavy one, then a tamping mat, something which i have not got around to getting yet

This guide here is pretty good, even if it have not been updated for a while.

there is also a couple of channels on you tube that is useful and helped me, the first one is Seattle coffee Gear, the second one is wholelattelovetv. Sadly they are American, but still ok.


How much to you want to spend and to you want to have a manual machine or automatic? I think with a manual one you can learn something and i think once you get it right you can make a better coffee than the autos.

A mate of mine got a auto and a manual and 99% of the time he uses the manual. He have also got a hand pump one as well, i love using that one, but i just can't get it right.

hope the info helps anyway.

I love my coffee, I just had a double shot Latte

[thedrewser]

Thanks for that. As the cottage I was in was for holiday lets the owner had the machine instructions next to the machine and it instructed me to run through 2 times before putting coffee in the filter, so as to pre-heat the machine.

To be honest my budget won't be huge, but I'm hoping that if I invest in a better grade of coffee I won't be penalised for using a budget machine.

[neo_wales]

And heat the cups, thats vital unless you are prepared to drink somewhat tepid coffee, a swill with boiling water from the kettle will do nicely.

[platelet]

A lot of the bean to cup machine will automate the heating / rinsing etc but they do come at a hefty £300-£1,500 price mark.

Mine for instance has a timer to turn it on in the morning, run the rinse cycle, warm up and warm the cups.

So basically I take the cup off the tray warmer, put it under the spout and press one button

Some useful discussion in here:
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1762822

[noise747]

oh yeah as Neo says, warm the cups up.

automatic machines are horrid, one they are over priced and two they make a lousy cup of coffee most of the time.

[1Mickey]

I've got the Delonghi esam 4200.s. I used to work in a coffee shop so I got a taste for freshly roasted coffee from various countries but, after having a couple of normal machines I was sick of the faffing about and ground coffee getting everywhere. Its only the basic one where you'd have to froth your own milk but it saves having to grind the beans separately and I like the taste of coffee without milk ruining it so that's fine for me. It was £230 when I got it 3 years ago and, despite me leaving it on standby all day most days and drinking 6 - 8 cups a day and making several one after the other when people come round, I haven't even noticed a change in my electric bill (mind you I have at least doubled my coffee intake since I bought it). Opinions vary on forums like this about bean to cup machines but the reviews speak for themselves. Unfortunately a lot of people want good coffee from rubbish stale beans from the supermarket and complain when they get what they pay for but I buy fresh coffee within a week of it being roasted and my neighbours ,friends and family all love it.

[jonner101]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Mickey

I've got the Delonghi esam 4200.s. I used to work in a coffee shop so I got a taste for freshly roasted coffee from various countries but, after having a couple of normal machines I was sick of the faffing about and ground coffee getting everywhere. Its only the basic one where you'd have to froth your own milk but it saves having to grind the beans separately and I like the taste of coffee without milk ruining it so that's fine for me. It was £230 when I got it 3 years ago and, despite me leaving it on standby all day most days and drinking 6 - 8 cups a day and making several one after the other when people come round, I haven't even noticed a change in my electric bill (mind you I have at least doubled my coffee intake since I bought it). Opinions vary on forums like this about bean to cup machines but the reviews speak for themselves. Unfortunately a lot of people want good coffee from rubbish stale beans from the supermarket and complain when they get what they pay for but I buy fresh coffee within a week of it being roasted and my neighbours ,friends and family all love it.

We have a bean to cup at work and the coffee from it is practically undrinkable, probably because we buy cheap beans in bulk and they sit in the hopper for weeks.

But yes I have the same bean to cup machine as you at home and I'd say that with decent fresh beans it does coffee better than a manual expresso as it's so consistent, once you have your length, strength and grind setting dialled in to your liking. It always comes out with excellent crema too.

Its so easy to clean and no messy coffee grounds to deal with. In fact it's so easy it's less hassle to get a fresh cup of express than instant.

Fresh beans are key.

[diary_room]

I use a Krups bean-to-cup machine (Espressaria). It preheats when you switch it on automatically and only takes about 15 secs (and no water comes out). It's a great machine, very handy. Lots of settings you can tweak until you get exactly the coffee you want. Like others I wanted a real espresso machine without the faffing around of a separate grinder etc

[noise747]

The problem with bean to cup machines are that they are expensive, they can take a fair bit of space, depending on which one you get and there is no fun in it.

just press a button and get a ok coffee.

[1Mickey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise747

The problem with bean to cup machines are that they are expensive, they can take a fair bit of space, depending on which one you get and there is no fun in it.

just press a button and get a ok coffee.

If I ever get to the point where my idea of fun is making coffee i'll probably end my life. My, now over 3 year old, coffee machine was £230. That's about 20p a day so far. As for size, its about half the size of my microwave and fits very nicely in the space between that and the boiler. I press a button and a cup of coffee's made from beans in about 30 seconds that's better than anything I've ever had in a coffee shop (I buy my beans roasted to order). It rinses itself, tells me when to put the descaler in and all I have to do is empty the tub the used coffee lands in. Its definitely one of the best things I've ever bought.

[noise747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Mickey

If I ever get to the point where my idea of fun is making coffee i'll probably end my life. My, now over 3 year old, coffee machine was £230. That's about 20p a day so far. As for size, its about half the size of my microwave and fits very nicely in the space between that and the boiler. I press a button and a cup of coffee's made from beans in about 30 seconds that's better than anything I've ever had in a coffee shop (I buy my beans roasted to order). It rinses itself, tells me when to put the descaler in and all I have to do is empty the tub the used coffee lands in. Its definitely one of the best things I've ever bought.

Maybe fun is the wrong word to use, but I much prefer to make a coffee using a espresso machine that using a fully automatic machine. 30 seconds for a single shot and that includes grinding, i suppose it is just enough time.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with automatic machines, just not for me. I think I can do a better job.

As I have said before, a mate of mine got a automatic, a semi-automatic, only because they got a pump and it deal with the temperature, but grinding and tamping still needs to be done and he have got a full manual machine with hand pump. i wanted one, but the price of them is more expensive than your auto. It takes some doing as well, his wife can do it better than my mate mind you and I just can't get used to it, mainly because i don't get much practice.

He uses the semi-auto most of the time, but if they are in a hurry they use the fully auto, and to be honest the fully manual and the semi is better than the auto on taste.

I get my coffee beans fresh as well, or as fresh as I can get them, which remind me, i got to order some tonight.

£230 for a auto machine is pretty good, my machine was not far from that to be honest.

At the end of the day it is what you prefer, maybe at some point in my life when i can't be bothered with the fraffing about with the Gaggia I will get a fully auto machine, but not at the moment.

As for being better than anything you have had in a coffee shop then you been in the wrong ones. The local coffee shop that introduced me to the company I now use for my coffee beans make amazing coffee. The bloke who owns it knows what he is on about and is a coffee nut. I admit I do not go as often as I would like to as it is not in the centre of town.

[1Mickey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise747

Maybe fun is the wrong word to use, but I much prefer to make a coffee using a espresso machine that using a fully automatic machine. 30 seconds for a single shot and that includes grinding, i suppose it is just enough time.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with automatic machines, just not for me. I think I can do a better job.

As I have said before, a mate of mine got a automatic, a semi-automatic, only because they got a pump and it deal with the temperature, but grinding and tamping still needs to be done and he have got a full manual machine with hand pump. i wanted one, but the price of them is more expensive than your auto. It takes some doing as well, his wife can do it better than my mate mind you and I just can't get used to it, mainly because i don't get much practice.

He uses the semi-auto most of the time, but if they are in a hurry they use the fully auto, and to be honest the fully manual and the semi is better than the auto on taste.

I get my coffee beans fresh as well, or as fresh as I can get them, which remind me, i got to order some tonight.

£230 for a auto machine is pretty good, my machine was not far from that to be honest.

At the end of the day it is what you prefer, maybe at some point in my life when i can't be bothered with the fraffing about with the Gaggia I will get a fully auto machine, but not at the moment.

As for being better than anything you have had in a coffee shop then you been in the wrong ones. The local coffee shop that introduced me to the company I now use for my coffee beans make amazing coffee. The bloke who owns it knows what he is on about and is a coffee nut. I admit I do not go as often as I would like to as it is not in the centre of town.

Fair enough. When I bought the machine i'd been working part time in a coffee shop and got a taste for fresh coffee on a daily basis. I used to spend hours cleaning up the coffee grounds that seemed to get everywhere. I'd had a couple of cheapo machines that had packed up and I was sick of cleaning the coffee machine at work and then cleaning another one when I got home. When I bought the delonghi I wasn't completely convinced at first but I am now. Grinding the coffee for one cup at a time means it keeps the flavor better and theirs no way I could be bothered with that with a traditional machine. Their is one big draw back though, before that machine I used to use 1 pound of coffee a week, which I used to buy from America. This coffee machine uses more than I used to use with a manual one and that, and the convenience of it, means I now go through around 1kg a week. Thankfully I get the coffee cheaper now so its not too bad but 1kg a week still seems a lot

[1Mickey]

..........

[noise747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Mickey

Fair enough. When I bought the machine i'd been working part time in a coffee shop and got a taste for fresh coffee on a daily basis. I used to spend hours cleaning up the coffee grounds that seemed to get everywhere. I'd had a couple of cheapo machines that had packed up and I was sick of cleaning the coffee machine at work and then cleaning another one when I got home. When I bought the delonghi I wasn't completely convinced at first but I am now. Grinding the coffee for one cup at a time means it keeps the flavor better and theirs no way I could be bothered with that with a traditional machine. Their is one big draw back though, before that machine I used to use 1 pound of coffee a week, which I used to buy from America. This coffee machine uses more than I used to use with a manual one and that, and the convenience of it, means I now go through around 1kg a week. Thankfully I get the coffee cheaper now so its not too bad but 1kg a week still seems a lot

I know what you mean about cheap machines, which is why I went for a Gaggia, even if they are now owned by Philips.
I worked in a cafe many years ago, before Coffee really became as popular as it is now, well in Hereford anyway We are looking at over 25 years ago. I agree with you about coffee grounds, they do seem to get all over the place. The espresso machine they used taught me how to brew a decent coffee, the problem is by the time I came to get my own espresso machine I had forgotten most of it, thank goodness for youtube

1KG is a lot, even I don't get through that a week and I drink a lot of coffee, maybe it is a good job I don't have a bean to cup as I would be using it too often. just drinking a coffee from my Tassimo, to get me started, it is ok, but nothing like freshly ground coffee.

The problem I got at the moment is finding space for all my machines


As I have said I buy my coffee beans from a local company, ok it is around 20 miles away from me, maybe a bit less, but it is still local. James Gourmet, they roast them when ordered. unless you go to the shop and buy from them, I presume they have some already roasted a day or so before.


I have just ordered Habesha Espresso and Ethiopian Yirgacheffe Aricha, Keble natural process Espresso Profile


250 grams each, comes to around £12 including postage, but the flavours are amazing, normally, i don't know what these two are like as I have never tried them.

I know you can get coffee cheaper, but this is my only sin to be honest, I don't drink alcohol that much, once in a blue moon and I don't smoke, so having decent coffee is my one pleasure in life.

[1Mickey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise747

I know what you mean about cheap machines, which is why I went for a Gaggia, even if they are now owned by Philips.
I worked in a cafe many years ago, before Coffee really became as popular as it is now, well in Hereford anyway We are looking at over 25 years ago. I agree with you about coffee grounds, they do seem to get all over the place. The espresso machine they used taught me how to brew a decent coffee, the problem is by the time I came to get my own espresso machine I had forgotten most of it, thank goodness for youtube

1KG is a lot, even I don't get through that a week and I drink a lot of coffee, maybe it is a good job I don't have a bean to cup as I would be using it too often. just drinking a coffee from my Tassimo, to get me started, it is ok, but nothing like freshly ground coffee.

The problem I got at the moment is finding space for all my machines


As I have said I buy my coffee beans from a local company, ok it is around 20 miles away from me, maybe a bit less, but it is still local. James Gourmet, they roast them when ordered. unless you go to the shop and buy from them, I presume they have some already roasted a day or so before.


I have just ordered Habesha Espresso and Ethiopian Yirgacheffe Aricha, Keble natural process Espresso Profile


250 grams each, comes to around £12 including postage, but the flavours are amazing, normally, i don't know what these two are like as I have never tried them.

I know you can get coffee cheaper, but this is my only sin to be honest, I don't drink alcohol that much, once in a blue moon and I don't smoke, so having decent coffee is my one pleasure in life.

I can identify with the lack of space. Although the delonghi's the biggest machine I've had, it takes up less space than all the extras( grinder, jug, attachments). I have a small kitchen and its a lot less cluttered now.
That coffee site looks alright. I used to get mine from realcoffee.co.uk for similar prices. Their coffee's great but £25 per kg is a lot. Then I noticed a shop down a side street that roast once a week and sold 1kg for £17. Unfortunately they put their prices up to £23 per kg last year so I did a Google search and found coffeedirect.co.uk , which is around £17 for 908 grams including postage. Coffee's my only vice left too ( I took up coffee when I gave up smoking in 2003) but I still try to save money where I can (provided the quality's the same).