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UEFA Champions League on TV
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derek500
15-10-2013
Originally Posted by Mark.:
“What's the reach of Sky 1?”

Roughly half of UK households.
Judio
15-10-2013
ITV 1
Matchday 3

Arsenal v Borussia Dortmund
Judio
15-10-2013
ITV 1
Matchday 4

Real Sociedad v Man United (unlucky Man City fans they will never show you!!)
Steve Williams
15-10-2013
Originally Posted by PatrickMcG:
“Have you seen the new champions league promo where Sky are simulcasting the next Manchester Utd game on Sky 1 as well as Sky Sports 2?.”

They did that a few seasons ago, of course, when Sky 1 wasn't on Virgin, seemingly to make Sky 1 look a bit more impressive for Sky customers and rub it in Virgin customers' faces.

I can't believe nobody's mentioned the P word yet.
popeye13
15-10-2013
Originally Posted by Steve Williams:
“They did that a few seasons ago, of course, when Sky 1 wasn't on Virgin, seemingly to make Sky 1 look a bit more impressive for Sky customers and rub it in Virgin customers' faces.

I can't believe nobody's mentioned the P word yet.”

Pick TV you say??


It doesn't make a blind bit of difference what the viewing figures are. Its the money thats put down and if BT bid more, they will get rights. Plain and simple!
So Sky 1 showing a game might look good, it doesn't really do much
Mark.
15-10-2013
Originally Posted by popeye13:
“Pick TV you say??


It doesn't make a blind bit of difference what the viewing figures are. Its the money thats put down and if BT bid more, they will get rights. Plain and simple!
So Sky 1 showing a game might look good, it doesn't really do much”

I don't think that's the point.

If the motivation behind the Sky 1 game is true, then Sky's intention is to make a single "blow everyone else out the water" bid. Which could prove easier to do than work out ITV's intentions.
wolvesdavid
15-10-2013
I know there seems to be some people who seem to think that UEFA will just go with the money, and ITV lose out, with the whole lot going to pay TV.

I disagree with this. I think ITV will keep what they have got, with Sky getting the rest.

However I'm not going to bother to explain why I think this.
derek500
15-10-2013
Originally Posted by wolvesdavid:
“I know there seems to be some people who seem to think that UEFA will just go with the money, and ITV lose out, with the whole lot going to pay TV.

I disagree with this. I think ITV will keep what they have got, with Sky getting the rest.”

I agree, whether it's Sky or BT who get pay matches, ITV will still get an FTA first pick package.
casinoman13
15-10-2013
Originally Posted by derek500:
“I agree, whether it's Sky or BT who get pay matches, ITV will still get an FTA first pick package.”

I think it will be a very hard decision for UEFA to make if there is a big difference in value between Pay and ITV.

Perhaps ITV will end up with a second pick?

If I was sitting in the chair at the moment waiting for the English bids to come in I would be laughing all the way to the bank knowing full well a big pay day is due one way or another.

I personally think if ITV hold on to it then BT will get a far better deal for the Europa cup with ITV getting no way a good deal than they have now, if ITV don't hold on to their 1 pick then they will continue to be the home for the Europa Cup with the continuing strong dominance.
derek500
15-10-2013
Originally Posted by casinoman13:
“
If I was sitting in the chair at the moment waiting for the English bids to come in I would be laughing all the way to the bank knowing full well a big pay day is due one way or another.”

Of course if Sky and BT go all out to get the pay rights, EUFA can accept a lower FTA bid from ITV and keep the sponsors happy.
Igloo_Man
15-10-2013
Originally Posted by casinoman13:
“Perhaps ITV will end up with a second pick?”

This would probably represent a good outcome for UEFA - ITV pay a good amount for a second pick while Sky and/or BT pay a huge amount for both first picks, resulting in a huge overall increase in the total income while a FTA presence remains.

But presuming the second picks will be in a separate package from the first picks, will ITV actually bid for a second pick? Reasons why they wouldn't:
- They would be missing out on the top games.
- They would have no semi-finals (or final depending on the set-up of the packages).
- They would potentially have no English teams in the knockout rounds if only two progress that far.

This is enough to persuade me that ITV will only be interested in first picks.
casinoman13
15-10-2013
Originally Posted by Igloo_Man:
“This would probably represent a good outcome for UEFA - ITV pay a good amount for a second pick while Sky and/or BT pay a huge amount for both first picks, resulting in a huge overall increase in the total income while a FTA presence remains.

But presuming the second picks will be in a separate package from the first picks, will ITV actually bid for a second pick? Reasons why they wouldn't:
- They would be missing out on the top games.
- They would have no semi-finals (or final depending on the set-up of the packages).
- They would potentially have no English teams in the knockout rounds if only two progress that far.

This is enough to persuade me that ITV will only be interested in first picks.”

If they fail with that then I think they will end up with best picks again for the Europa Cup.....they will end up with something again.

I know bidding closes for both compitions on the same day but much like BT and maybe even Sky they will make sure they have a decent chance to get the Europa Cup.
To be honest I think ITV were very lucky to get the sort of deal they have during the present rights of the Europs Cup.
loyalsince
15-10-2013
For all bidders first pick is key. Sky, bt and itv would all prefer a single night with first pick than having all games other than first picks.
mlt11
15-10-2013
Originally Posted by PatrickMcG:
“Have you seen the new champions league promo where Sky are simulcasting the next Manchester Utd game on Sky 1 as well as Sky Sports 2?

I've spoken to a friend at Sky who told me they are doing this ahead of the next rights auction. They want to keep their options open and show UEFA the widest possible audience they are able to reach. In France UEFA have sold all of the domestic rights to the champions league to pay tv. From what I understand Sky are perfectly happy with the current arrangement sharing the rights with ITV but with BT expecting to come in hard they are looking at winning the rights on an exclusive basis. Hence why they are now airing the odd game on Sky 1 in the hope that impressive audience figures are achieved - which is ITV's main bargaining chip.”

Just a minor point but I notice Sky 1 coverage of Man Utd v Sociedad has very short intro - programme runs only 7.30pm to 10pm.

On SS2 Sky are running the CSKA v Man City programme right through to 7.30pm so the Man Utd programme will only be 7.30pm to 10pm.

ie They are giving Man Utd the absolutely tightest possible intro on both Sky 1 and SS2 which will maximise the programme average.

Sky's BARB ratings for CL normally look terrible because of massively long intros - next week they are doing the precise opposite!

I do wonder if Sky may have had preliminary discussions with UEFA about this - if so and UEFA has given them a pointer - ie UEFA might accept a "Sky 1 solution" - then there just might be a possibility of a dramatic change being on the horizon.

I would still say odds significantly against but you never know.
casinoman13
15-10-2013
I think it's more of a question that Sky are seriously concerned, more than ever before, that BT are going to make a high and perhaps rewarding offer which could see them beaten.
PaulLFC
15-10-2013
The likelihood is BT aren't stupid though, they will have noticed the same as in this thread, i.e. Sky putting a match on Sky 1 is a tactic to boost viewerbase, so presumably they'll adjust their bid strategy accordingly.
Gray77
15-10-2013
Regarding ITV going for second picks, would it be worth their while? Take last season for example. With no English sides reaching the QF's last season at least ITV had the pick of games on Tuesday nights. Imagine if they'd only had 2nd picks through the QF's. And of course you can't show any of the Semi Final legs as they'd all be 1st picks by default, so again any package that denied them that would be massively flawed.

Last season ITV showed...
Group Stage
Real Madrid v Man City
Cluj v Man United
Man United v Braga
Man City v Ajax
Juventus v Chelsea
B Dortmund v Man City

Round of 16
First Leg

Celtic v Juventus
Arsenal v Bayern
Second Leg
Man United v Real Madrid
Barcelona v Milan

Quarter Finals
1st Leg

PSG v Barcelona
2nd Leg
Galatasaray v Real Madrid

Semi Finals
1st Leg

Bayern v Barcelona
2nd Leg
Real Madrid v B Dortmund

It's a decent line up of games, allowing them to show Barcelona and Real Madrid 3 times each and Bayern twice in the knock out stages to make up for lack of English involvement. It also allowed them to show the the only real mega tie of the competition that took place on English soil in Man United v Real, as well as big time group games like Real v Man City and Juventus v Chelsea.

Now, imagine the scenario if they only had (for example) 2nd picks on Tuesday nights. Their line up last season may have looked like this...

Group Stage
Montpellier v Arsenal
Nordsjaelland v Chelsea
Barcelona v Celtic
Schalke v Arsenal
Galatasaray v Man United
Olympiacos v Arsenal

Round of 16
First Leg

Valencia v PSG
Porto v Malaga
Second Leg
B Dortmund v Shakhtar
Schalke v Galatasaray

Quarter Finals
1st Leg

Bayern v Juventus
2nd Leg
B Dortmund v Malaga

Semi Finals
No games

So, basically, a pretty average set of Group Games, only one Man United game and then a group of knock out games that you'd imagine they may be forced to stick on ITV4. Not a single Barcelona or Real knock out game, no chance of showing any of the 2 English clubs games in the Last 16, and no Semi Finals.

When you think of 2nd picks as being okay and well worth bidding for, you may want to think again. For a FTA network to bid tens of millions of pounds for a set of games like that would be madness really. First picks are essential to ITV having CL games IMO. Anything less and they're not worth having for the money involved.
mlt11
15-10-2013
Originally Posted by Gray77:
“When you think of 2nd picks as being okay and well worth bidding for, you may want to think again. For a FTA network to bid tens of millions of pounds for a set of games like that would be madness really. First picks are essential to ITV having CL games IMO. Anything less and they're not worth having for the money involved.”

Agree entirely.

But just to say they wouldn't dream of bidding major money for 2nd picks.

arius said the 2nd pick packages went for £8m each for 2009/12.

For 2015/18 even with very inflated bidding I would have thought the 2nd pick packages would be around £15m - which ITV would internally attribute roughly:

- £2m per group game as you will at least get British teams so still on ITV1 = 6 @ £2m = £12m

- Peanuts for the last 16 onwards as all would have to go on ITV4 = say £3m.
channelsurfer
16-10-2013
So bt or sky either way in an all out bidding war. In germany sky trebled the previous price on the basis that deutsch telecom had bid almost double for domestic league rights.
Armagideon Time
16-10-2013
Originally Posted by Gray77:
“Regarding ITV going for second picks, would it be worth their while? Take last season for example. With no English sides reaching the QF's last season at least ITV had the pick of games on Tuesday nights. Imagine if they'd only had 2nd picks through the QF's. And of course you can't show any of the Semi Final legs as they'd all be 1st picks by default, so again any package that denied them that would be massively flawed.

Last season ITV showed...
Group Stage
Real Madrid v Man City
Cluj v Man United
Man United v Braga
Man City v Ajax
Juventus v Chelsea
B Dortmund v Man City

Round of 16
First Leg

Celtic v Juventus
Arsenal v Bayern
Second Leg
Man United v Real Madrid
Barcelona v Milan

Quarter Finals
1st Leg

PSG v Barcelona
2nd Leg
Galatasaray v Real Madrid

Semi Finals
1st Leg

Bayern v Barcelona
2nd Leg
Real Madrid v B Dortmund

It's a decent line up of games, allowing them to show Barcelona and Real Madrid 3 times each and Bayern twice in the knock out stages to make up for lack of English involvement. It also allowed them to show the the only real mega tie of the competition that took place on English soil in Man United v Real, as well as big time group games like Real v Man City and Juventus v Chelsea.”

This endorses my view that Barcelona and Real Madrid are ITV's default continental teams to show in the absence of British involvement, especially as they have English-speaking/ex-Premier League luminaries amongst their number (Fabregas and Pique with the former; Ronaldo, Alonso, Modric and that Welsh geezer they signed, plus Ancelotti as coach for the latter).
griffpaul
16-10-2013
This Season ITV Showing
Group Stage
MD1 Bayer Leverkusen v Man Utd
MD2 Celtic v Barcelona
MD3 Arsenal v Borussia Dortmund
MD4 Real Sociedad v Man Utd?
coventrywooo
16-10-2013
Originally Posted by griffpaul:
“This Season ITV Showing
Group Stage
MD1 Bayer Leverkusen v Man Utd
MD2 Celtic v Barcelona
MD3 Arsenal v Borussia Dortmund
MD4 Real Sociedad v Man Utd?”

yea ur right with MD4
Sirius
16-10-2013
The Sky "blow everyone out the water" bid is a curious one. Would UEFA consider the reach of Sky One as a useful "bargaining chip" for one first pick tie.

It could suit Sky if it could keep Sky One off a BT platform.
mlt11
16-10-2013
The "Sky 1 option" could still apply even if Sky don't win both 1st pick packages.

ie IF UEFA decided they were willing to accept one 1st pick package on Sky 1 instead of FTA then if BT outbid Sky for the other 1st pick package the 1st pick packages would split:

Sky (Sky1) / BT

We have no idea if UEFA would accept that but IF they are willing to then it puts Sky in the position of only having to outbid ITV to get one 1st pick package (albeit that they would have to broadcast it on Sky 1) - as BT doesn't have a "Sky 1 option" (unless it set up a new basic pay channel but that seems unlikely and it wouldn't have the EPG of Sky 1).

One interesting question is what is the attraction of this for Sky?

- It wouldn't on the face of it gain any new Sky Sports subs but it would encourage more basic Sky subs.

- It would be a way of "guaranteeing" getting one 1st pick package (as Sky could effectively guarantee outbidding ITV) - ie it's a hedge against losing out completely.

- However if in fact it turned out that Sky got both 1st pick packages then it should act as a general driver for subs (even though not necessarily SS subs - though SS could benefit through general perception of Sky's "sports offering" - eg people thinking "ITV no longer has CL, maybe we might reconsider getting SS").
casinoman13
16-10-2013
I seriously think Sky are trying to pull out all the stops because they know BT are such a threat and pose a real possibility (in their eyes) of taking some rights away.

To this day I firmly believe they did an early deal regarding the Football League etc because they knew they were a threat and wanted to get in before they had a chance of putting a deal on the table.
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