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UEFA Champions League on TV
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Ginger Daddy
24-10-2013
Originally Posted by david16:
“Sky often do this to stop other platform Sky Sports subscribers from being able to watch certain matches.”

http://www.ukgameshows.com/atoz/prog...es_duhduhh.jpg
ariusuk
24-10-2013
Originally Posted by popeye13:
“I like that, but, packages B & D id have the remaining games in because E wouldn't be worth while in terms of cost for a broadcaster to bid solely for.
So id go like so:

A) Tuesday 1st pick + 1 Semi Final, 1 Quarter Final + Final + Highlights
B) Tuesday Remaining games (2nd pick onwards)
C) Wednesday 1st Pick + 1 Semi Final + 1 Quarter Final + Final + Highlights
D) Wednesday Remaining games (2nd Pick onwards)
”

UEFA wouldn't go for that. They know that "other games", particularly with an obligation to show rather than a right to show are unattractive, so they aren't going to bundle second picks with them in any country which has more than two Champions League places. It would just reduce the potential number of bidders for each of those packages.
fodg09
25-10-2013
Sky shares closed down today after a note from Australian investment firm Macquarie lowered its recommendation on BSkyB stock to neutral from buy due to increased competition in the Champions League rights process.

Quote:
“ “We believe bidding will be aggressive due to BT Sport’s current lack of meaningful mid-week content and the BT Sport product seeing only middling success, despite significant marketing spend,” the analyst said.

“We also expect Sky to look to retain these rights at almost any cost, as was the case with the English Premier League rights last year.””

Quote:
“They estimated the price Sky will pay to secure the rights will rise 70pc, which would knock the company’s 2016 estimated earnings by 4pc.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/m...e-worries.html

Not long to go now - bids due in a week on Tuesday (November 5th).

As The Telegraph notes, today's warning about the impact of BT on Sky's profits followed a rather stark assessment about BT Sport's prospects from UBS earlier this week,

Quote:
““BT is set to invest an estimated £450m, or 15pc to 20pc of cash flow, per annum to create BT Sport and update its BT TV service,” the UBS analysts said. “We worry it will not be recouped as current take up seems weak.” They added that BT might end up spending “substantially more to appeal to Sky Sport subscribers and raise the risk of Sky retaliation.””

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/m...l-worries.html
PaulLFC
26-10-2013
Originally Posted by fodg09:
“Sky shares closed down today after a note from Australian investment firm Macquarie lowered its recommendation on BSkyB stock to neutral from buy due to increased competition in the Champions League rights process.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/m...e-worries.html

Not long to go now - bids due in a week on Tuesday (November 5th).

As The Telegraph notes, today's warning about the impact of BT on Sky's profits followed a rather stark assessment about BT Sport's prospects from UBS earlier this week,



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/m...l-worries.html”

Do we know how long after the bids are due results are usually announced?
casinoman13
26-10-2013
Originally Posted by PaulLFC:
“Do we know how long after the bids are due results are usually announced?”

Expecting it to be around mid to late November.
mlt11
26-10-2013
"They estimated the price Sky will pay to secure the rights will rise 70pc, which would knock the company’s 2016 estimated earnings by 4pc."

If Sky gets away with that I think they would be pretty pleased.

Currently Sky CL rights cost = approx £80m so 70% increase = approx £56m which, it is true, is around 4% of earnings.

But that is far, far too simplistic - we're looking at 3 year contracts and £56m is a very small number in the context of overall revenue growth. If any analyst thinks that is going to hit estimated earnings by 4% it implies they haven't built in any CL rights inflation into their model which would be totally idiotic.

Of course there is other rights inflation to take account of as well. But in the context of paying an extra £219m per year for PL rights an extra £56m per year for CL is not going to have much effect. A £1 per month rise in the Sky Sports price that year would way more than cover it.
channelsurfer
27-10-2013
70% would be a win-win for sky. I would guess it would be between 100 to 130% increase if BT are really serious in their intentions.
PaulLFC
27-10-2013
Does anyone know how these auctions are conducted? I.e. is one party told if another has outbid them, as was rumoured in the Premier League auction?
ariusuk
27-10-2013
Originally Posted by PaulLFC:
“Does anyone know how these auctions are conducted? I.e. is one party told if another has outbid them, as was rumoured in the Premier League auction?”

It's sealed bids. A single round of bidding.

...and there is neither any evidence nor any serious suggestion that that happened in the Premier League auction.
Pizzatheaction
27-10-2013
Is the Europa League auction taking place at the same time?
popeye13
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by Pizzatheaction:
“Is the Europa League auction taking place at the same time?”

Yes, the CL and EL bidding is simultaneous.
Marti S
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by ariusuk:
“It's sealed bids. A single round of bidding.

...and there is neither any evidence nor any serious suggestion that that happened in the Premier League auction.”

The premier league went to a second round of bids because they said they were so close on the first round, in other words a chance to give them a second chance to increase their bids
Mark.
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by Marti S:
“The premier league went to a second round of bids because they said they were so close on the first round, in other words a chance to give them a second chance to increase their bids”

Yes, but that's not the same as telling a bidder they've been outbid.
Marti S
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by Mark.:
“Yes, but that's not the same as telling a bidder they've been outbid.”

Its as good as telling them though
Mark.
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by Marti S:
“Its as good as telling them though”

No it's not.

They told all bidders that the bids were close, without divulging who had actually bid the most.
hendero
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by Mark.:
“No it's not.

They told all bidders that the bids were close, without divulging who had actually bid the most.”

If they told all the interested parties that the bids were close, that's effectively the same as telling them more or less what everyone else had bid. And the fact that the bids were apparently so close suggestes there is a fair amount of chatter between the rights holders and the bidders beforehand, along the lines of, "we expect bids in the region of £xx".
Mark.
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by hendero:
“If they told all the interested parties that the bids were close, that's effectively the same as telling them more or less what everyone else had bid.”

But it doesn't say who bid the most. Which is what was suggested.
Pizzatheaction
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by popeye13:
“Yes, the CL and EL bidding is simultaneous.”

Thanks, Popeye.
mlt11
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by hendero:
“And the fact that the bids were apparently so close suggestes there is a fair amount of chatter between the rights holders and the bidders beforehand, along the lines of, "we expect bids in the region of £xx".”

I wouldn't agree with that - anyone submitting a bid wants to win the auction - if it was felt that the rights holders were telling everyone roughly what to bid and bidders then all actually bid in that area then bidders aren't actually giving themselves the best chance of winning - it would actually be like going into a lottery as to who would be highest (as everyone would be bidding in the same tight area).

In any case it would be very difficult for the PL to gauge how much bidders were willing to bid - we have seen hugely varying levels of inflation (and occasionally deflation) over the years.

Finally I don't think anyone even knew that BT was bidding. BT stated afterwards that they hadn't told literally anyone that they were bidding and they got a work experience intern to deliver their bid by hand so nobody would recognise them.
THOMO
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by mlt11:
“I wouldn't agree with that - anyone submitting a bid wants to win the auction - if it was felt that the rights holders were telling everyone roughly what to bid and bidders then all actually bid in that area then bidders aren't actually giving themselves the best chance of winning - it would actually be like going into a lottery as to who would be highest (as everyone would be bidding in the same tight area).

In any case it would be very difficult for the PL to gauge how much bidders were willing to bid - we have seen hugely varying levels of inflation (and occasionally deflation) over the years.

Finally I don't think anyone even knew that BT was bidding. BT stated afterwards that they hadn't told literally anyone that they were bidding and they got a work experience trainee to deliver their bid by hand so nobody would recognise them.”

Of course Sky and others will know that BT will be bidding for the premier league football next time in three years time.
Ian.
hendero
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by mlt11:
“I wouldn't agree with that - anyone submitting a bid wants to win the auction - if it was felt that the rights holders were telling everyone roughly what to bid and bidders then all actually bid in that area then bidders aren't actually giving themselves the best chance of winning - it would actually be like going into a lottery as to who would be highest (as everyone would be bifdding in the same tight area).

In any case it would be very difficult for the PL to gauge how much bidders were willing to bid - we have seen hugely varying levels of inflation (and occasionally deflation) over the years.

Finally I don't think anyone even knew that BT was bidding. BT stated afterwards that they hadn't told literally anyone that they were bidding and they got a work experience trainee to deliver their bid by hand so nobody would recognise them.”

I suppose much depends on whether the rumours about the Premier League telling all the bidders, "Your bids are all close to one another, please bid again" are true. If they are true, then how would they all have been so close unless the PLgave them an indication of what they were expecting, or had somehow found out and tipped everyone else off?

What seems more likely is that the various bids came in, and they tipped off those who had bid the lowest that they needed to up their offer or they would lose out.

But I have no idea how these things work in practice. I wonder why they don't just have an open auction, set a minimum threshold, and let the TV companies bid it out in open warfare.
mlt11
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by hendero:
“I suppose much depends on whether the rumours about the Premier League telling all the bidders, "Your bids are all close to one another, please bid again" are true. If they are true, then how would they all have been so close unless the PLgave them an indication of what they were expecting, or had somehow found out and tipped everyone else off?

What seems more likely is that the various bids came in, and they tipped off those who had bid the lowest that they needed to up their offer or they would lose out.

But I have no idea how these things work in practice. I wonder why they don't just have an open auction, set a minimum threshold, and let the TV companies bid it out in open warfare.”

Nobody on here has seen the tender document.

But for the 2007/10 and 2010/13 auctions (governed by agreement with EC) the PL could always (***) order another round of bidding if they wanted to - ie bids did not have to be that close - it was the PL's judgement call.

We don't know exactly what the tender said for 2013/16 but I imagine the PL would have wanted to keep as much flexibility as possible.

The reason for no open auction is that with blind bidding you may well get more - because nobody knows what everyone else is bidding - so the winner may outbid the 2nd place by a wide margin which won't happen in an open auction.

(***) Unless the PL declared a round as the final round in advance.
Dansky+HD
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by popeye13:
“Yes, the CL and EL bidding is simultaneous.”

Would it not be a major feather in Sky's cap if the could get picks 1-4 or full Europa League rights.

I think in some way it would elevate the competition even though the FTA rights would maybe be a lot less.

Would be a nice kick in the teeth to BT & they may do a deal with ITV as they have a good record of working with them through the CL coverage.
hendero
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by mlt11:
“The reason for no open auction is that with blind bidding you may well get more - because nobody knows what everyone else is bidding - so the winner may outbid the 2nd place by a wide margin which won't happen in an open auction.”

Thanks for the explanation. Makes sense, but it seems to me that you might also get less with sealed bids, especially if there's just one round of bidding. Otherwise, why aren't all auctions conducted that way?
casinoman13
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by Dansky+HD:
“Would it not be a major feather in Sky's cap if the could get picks 1-4 or full Europa League rights.

I think in some way it would elevate the competition even though the FTA rights would maybe be a lot less.

Would be a nice kick in the teeth to BT & they may do a deal with ITV as they have a good record of working with them through the CL coverage.”

Equally would it not be even more of a kick in the teeth if Sky lost some of the rights to BT?

I think it's possible things may stay the same in the Champion's league but its more possible that BT will take far more of the Europa coverage from ITV , not saying everything but a good deal more than BT have now.
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