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UEFA Champions League on TV
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mlt11
09-11-2013
Originally Posted by Gray77:
“So, the two figures in bold are the 1st leg Real Madrid v Man United Last 16 game and the 2nd leg Bayern v Arsenal Last 16 game.

They are the only 2 games on Sky last season that topped a million viewers. All of these games were of course exclusive to Sky except the Final so the figures haven't been diluted due to FTA factors. These include big time group games like Man City v Dortmund, Man City v Real Madrid and Chelsea v Juventus, and of course 4 Man United group games, all under a million viewers.

Imagine the kind of audiences BT will get for CL games behind a paywall if these are the kind of figures Sky got.”

Need to bear in mind all those figures are programme averages which are often distorted by long intros - on Wed with a 6pm start the figure is effectively completely meaningless.

For big CL matches I would work on approx. 2m.

Until the Man C v Man U MNF in April 2012 the Chelsea v Liverpool CL semi final 2nd leg (the one that went to extra time) was Sky's highest ever club audience - it got 3.3m (match average or peak - I can't remember).
mlt11
09-11-2013
Originally Posted by coulsontom:
“Nobody gives a shit about the Lions. Sky hyped them up for their own benefit.”

Well Sky got 1.9m people watching them at 11am - an exceptional audience for Sky at that time of day - probably the highest at that time of day in the entire history of Sky TV.
Gray77
09-11-2013
Originally Posted by coulsontom:
“Nobody gives a shit about the Lions. Sky hyped them up for their own benefit.”

Ignoring the tone of your post, I will disagree with your point.

25,000 people travelled to the other side of the World to see the Lions, that's about the same as follow England in a football World Cup. Maybe up in Manchester people didn't care but down South they did. I was in a pub in Hampshire when the 1st Test was on and it and all the other pubs were rammed, and I watched the 2nd Test whilst in Kent and the same thing was true down there.

I'm not a Union fan, I'm from the North West and follow Rugby League, but I was very aware of the Lions tour and people certainly did care about it in various parts of the country.
bottleofbest
09-11-2013
I said this would happen and my opinion was rubbished. Many said I was an idiot for suggesting it and at best, BT Would maybe get shared rights with sky.
Glad to be proved right for a change!

This certainly signals BT's intention to go all out for the Epl.
The CL is a significant coup for BT and a huge loss to Sky.
People can try and dress it down but it is what it is.

First BT was the first broadcaster other than sky to get first picks on the epl.
Then sky lost all premiership rugby to bt now they've lost ALL of the CL.
Bt mean business.
I think BT will atleast get the same level of picks as sky next time round.

Seems 3-0 to BT to me. Apart from maybe the England games.
It's quite amazing to considering the channel has been launched a few short months.
SamuelW
09-11-2013
Last season Real Madrid v Man Utd got 9m on Itv. ON Sky Sports the other leg between those two teams got 2m.

Given that BT Sport has way less customers than Sky, even in 2016 it will still have less, these massive CL games will be getting just 1.5million viewers. It is going to completely cut off the casual audience from watching the CL. There will be a demand for highlights at 10pm.
d'@ve
09-11-2013
Originally Posted by mlt11:
“Need to bear in mind all those figures are programme averages which are often distorted by long intros - on Wed with a 6pm start the figure is effectively completely meaningless.”

You can say that again. I and my bro switch on 5 minutes or less before the start and switch off usually within 15 minutes of the end. Cuts out all the talking faces dross. The actual match averages and peak are more meaningful than programme averages.
Gray77
09-11-2013
Originally Posted by mlt11:
“Need to bear in mind all those figures are programme averages which are often distorted by long intros - on Wed with a 6pm start the figure is effectively completely meaningless.

For big CL matches I would work on approx. 2m.

Until the Man C v Man U MNF in April 2012 the Chelsea v Liverpool CL semi final 2nd leg (the one that went to extra time) was Sky's highest ever club audience - it got 3.3m (match average or peak - I can't remember).”

Point accepted, fair enough. But, the point I made still holds in that I would be surprised if BT topped 1 million for anything other than a huge, huge game in the QF or SF involving probably United or Liverpool (if they are back in it at any stage).
Jamesp84
09-11-2013
Originally Posted by coulsontom:
“Nobody gives a shit about the Lions. Sky hyped them up for their own benefit.”

Absolute nonsense.
bottleofbest
09-11-2013
Sky must now go all out for the EPL rights, but BT will know this and will also bid highly. I don't think there has ever been a more significant change in the UK sports broadcasting market
mlt11
09-11-2013
Originally Posted by Gray77:
“Point accepted, fair enough. But, the point I made still holds in that I would be surprised if BT topped 1 million for anything other than a huge, huge game in the QF or SF involving probably United or Liverpool (if they are back in it at any stage).”

Agree entirely.

One reason CL ratings get depressed is that CL is up against "general entertainment" on BBC1 / ITV1 which the PL doesn't face.

It's an important point - most people live in families - in most families the whole family doesn't want to watch football.

OK, I know there is Multiroom / SkyGo etc but the family exerts influence - particularly when we are talking about middling CL group games.
alexj2002
09-11-2013
Originally Posted by gamez-fan:
“What does co-exclusive mean in this regard?? That they must share it with another broadcaster??”

I think it's because BT have highlight rights included as part of their package, the second broadcaster that gets the highlights-only package won't have them exclusively, so they've coined this term co-exclusive.

Originally Posted by Paul_Crawford:
“https://twitter.com/rogermosey

Intrestingly former BBC Head of Sport Roger Mosey is tweeting regarding todays news, he is they guy who unsucessfully tried to bid for the CL highlights last time round, his tweets suggest that the BBC is unlikely to bid for the highlights.”

The BBC may not be able to appease the UCL sponsors in the same way a commercial FTA channel would. They probably couldn't include them in the title sequence for example.

Originally Posted by alanwarwic:
“I'd suggest that Sky simply walked away from the bidding process. Do so is as likely accepting a duopoly rather than having futile future bidding wars.”

Wouldn't it have been a "closed-bid" process rather than auction-style? Otherwise BT would have paid just a little more than Sky/ITV were willing to, rather than a lot more.
Digifriendly
09-11-2013
What about Match choice? Will BT Sport have this option the way Sky do?
Bosox
09-11-2013
Originally Posted by mlt11:
“OK, I know there is Multiroom / SkyGo etc but the family exerts influence.”

Makes it even more important for BT to sort out a Multiroom deal in time for the CL deal.
bottleofbest
09-11-2013
Originally Posted by Bosox:
“Makes it even more important for BT to sort out a Multiroom deal in time for the CL deal.”

That would mean wholesaling to Sky, which BT simply won't do.
TelevisionUser
09-11-2013
Originally Posted by mlt11:
“TelevisonUser - pleased to say that on this occasion I agree with your analysis 100%.

Next PL rights are obviously absolutely fundamental - if Sky loses a significant proportion of its current PL rights then that will mean a major change in the market.”

I do think there has been a bit of exaggeration in this thread about the potential negative effect on Sky and it's the Premiership that'll be the crucial battle. I have no doubt that come Monday morning, Sky executives will be planning their long term EPL rights strategy and be putting aside the requisite reserves for that contest. Ultimately, the Sky and BT customers will pay for these contests not only through raised subscriptions but in more subtle ways such as increased landline and broadband charges and fewer add-on benefits.

Originally Posted by tghe-retford:
“From what I can foretell, the biggest losers so far will be terrestrial and FTA satellite viewers, in particular non BT YouView users whose boxes cannot pick up BT Sport's channels due to the encryption flag imposed upon them and all BT line rental payers who'll be subsidising the deals BT will implement to entice viewers and the obvious fact that line rental cannot be avoided by anyone who wants a BT phone line.

Time will tell come Monday to see what happens to BSkyB's share price to see if they lose out over time.”

Yep, there will be noticeably fewer European matches being shown free to air and I strongly suspect that BT will probably act like Ebenezer Scrooge and show only the bare minimum requirements free to air*.

I really don't want piracy and poor quality online streaming to be the winner here and so I'd like to see much more government intervention starting with a new listed sports review that would put more sports events and tournaments on the protected schedule. I hope that would also serve in the longer term to help to halt this hideous sports rights cost inflation which ultimately neither benefits the free to air nor pay-TV viewers.

Unfortunately, the current ruling coalition still appears to be mesmerised by Murdoch (notwithstanding all the scandals) so we'll probably have to wait until post-2015 to get such a review.

* see below:
Quote:
“Both the UEFA Champions League and Europa League finals will be free to air, and at least one of each participating British club's European fixtures will be shown free of charge per season.”

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/news/...#ixzz2kASxU2nX
KNs47
09-11-2013
Originally Posted by mlt11:
“TelevisonUser - pleased to say that on this occasion I agree with your analysis 100%.

Next PL rights are obviously absolutely fundamental - if Sky loses a significant proportion of its current PL rights then that will mean a major change in the market.”

Today's news is a fundamental marker in the sand. With the 38 EPL games and 18 first picks, at that point we didn't know if BT would say right this little package is enough to prop up our Broadband, and then just sit tight. Capturing the whole Euro rights has said we're in this for the long game. At the next set of EPL rights Sky will protect their 4:00 Sunday kick-off with a vengeance bidding way over the odds to hold on to them, but will then probably let BT steal the 1:30 Sunday slot. BT's next requirement must be to strengthen their Sunday UK offering. Saturday and Monday will most likely be split between the two also. A major change has already happened.
Stereophonic83
09-11-2013
It's all very well BT acquiring all these rights but seriously how are they planning on paying for it. Obviously somebody somewhere at BT has it all worked out.
hard_to_beat
09-11-2013
Originally Posted by KNs47:
“Today's news is a fundamental marker in the sand. With the 38 EPL games and 18 first picks, at that point we didn't know if BT would say right this little package is enough to prop up our Broadband, and then just sit tight. Capturing the whole Euro rights has said we're in this for the long game. At the next set of EPL rights Sky will protect their 4:00 Sunday kick-off with a vengeance bidding way over the odds to hold on to them, but will then probably let BT steal the 1:30 Sunday slot. BT's next requirement must be to strengthen their Sunday UK offering. Saturday and Monday will most likely be split between the two also. A major change has already happened.”

I can not see Sky giving ground in any way - I think they'll pay massive, and I mean massive, to not only keep what they have, but try to lock BT out entirely. If UEFA can't ignore this bid, why would the PL be any less greedy?
Readingfan
09-11-2013
Originally Posted by mlt11:
“Need to bear in mind all those figures are programme averages which are often distorted by long intros - on Wed with a 6pm start the figure is effectively completely meaningless.

).”

Not too relevant but just to say for knockout matches I think Sky's Wednesday coverage might start at 7pm rather than 6? (I know they start the final from 6 but I think that might be it?)
gamez-fan
09-11-2013
Originally Posted by alexj2002:
“The BBC may not be able to appease the UCL sponsors in the same way a commercial FTA channel would. They probably couldn't include them in the title sequence for example.”

Thanks for your reply regarding the highlights as for the above it's just another reason why the currant BBC
setup needs to change to allow advertising if the highlights are left to ITV they will more than likely only bid
for night 1 maybe CH5 would be the best bet for night 2
linkinpark875
09-11-2013
Originally Posted by SamuelW:
“Last season Real Madrid v Man Utd got 9m on Itv. ON Sky Sports the other leg between those two teams got 2m.

Given that BT Sport has way less customers than Sky, even in 2016 it will still have less, these massive CL games will be getting just 1.5million viewers. It is going to completely cut off the casual audience from watching the CL. There will be a demand for highlights at 10pm.”

That's what puzzles me why take it off FTA TV and lose all these viewers? Not everybody can afford pay tv and they are cutting off many viewers.
Bosox
09-11-2013
Originally Posted by hard_to_beat:
“I can not see Sky giving ground in any way - I think they'll pay massive, and I mean massive, to not only keep what they have, but try to lock BT out entirely.”

I can't see the PL allowing BT (or Sky) to be locked out entirely. It's massively in their interest to keep these two involved and bidding against each other for many auctions to come.
gamez-fan
09-11-2013
Originally Posted by linkinpark875:
“That's what puzzles me why take it off FTA TV and lose all these viewers? Not everybody can afford pay tv and they are cutting off many viewers.”

Well maybe the fact they've managed to get over double the price for the rights than they did last time
might have something to do with it
wakey
09-11-2013
Originally Posted by KNs47:
“Yeah, I agree the cost of two subs initially will be higher, but that's because we've existed in an overinflated, monopoly market where Sky have been able to charge for subs, and bid for rights, pretty much what they like, and rights holders aren't going to suddenly drop their prices when they've already paid premium prices for those rights, but if they're now having to be more competitive against a rival broadcaster slowly over time they will have to. I find it shocking that people believe a monopoly market is better than all out competition. Brainwashed by Sky rhetoric for too many years.

If people want to have the Entertainment package then they'd be paying for the Entertainment package. Sky is a business and not going to give anything away for free, but at the moment you can't get the sports package without Entertainment, which is simply wrong. An example of a monopoly causing reduced choice, and higher overall cost.”

Its not going to be good for the consumer long term either. Sky aren't going to drop their 'base' charge just as BT won't drop their 'base' charge to get it via their platforms.

And BT's price is only going to have to rise, they are overpaying for all their content and they can't persuade that many people to subscribe when giving it away free and with EPL rights. CL is less of a draw.

By you 2015 we will be paying over £50 a month just in Sports subs just to get all the Top level football and we could end up with sports sub reaching the levels they are in the US

Its the same situation we see with the TV/Movie streaming services where none of them will drop prices, prices aren't going down but you need to subscribe to them all to get all content

Originally Posted by Gray77:
“Yet! Right now you're spot on of course. But HD won't be free forever and we're talking 2 years before the CL deal. A £5 increase over a whole 2 years, unlikely. More likely we see that kind of hike over the next 12 months plus a charge for HD once all the initial 12 month deals expire, then another price hike to come in with the start of the 2015-16 season. And then if they get more PL games, maybe another price hike of a little bit.”

HD isn't free now. Only those who subscribed before August got HD free and that's only for a year. I believe its £3 extra for HD at the moment.
TelevisionUser
09-11-2013
Originally Posted by Stereophonic83:
“It's all very well BT acquiring all these rights but seriously how are they planning on paying for it. Obviously somebody somewhere at BT has it all worked out.”

Judging from the comments right here, some of the economising that is taking place is at the customer support and services end of things with decidedly unfortunate results.
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