Dad went to Argos to buy a TV for his kitchen yesterday (Bush 22 or 24"). On the box it said both HD Ready and FULL HD.

To him, and me, that meany you get all the Freeview HD channels without having another box.

Wrong. It doesn't, and the only way to see if the TV did is if you loo closely in the catalogue for "Freeview HD Tuner".

Not saying Argos are trying to pull a fast one, but seriously, what's the point of putting "HD Ready 1080" and "Full HD 1080" on the box - what's the ruddy difference.

How many buyers have fallen into the trap of thinking they get the full Freeview HD when they are not?? Normally I'd blame them for not being savvy enough; but this had both me and Dad up the wrong tree.

For me "Full HD" should mean all the channels + the HD ones on freeview. Can't see why it can't.

Letter to trading standards/MP coming up.

Thoughts??

No problem. Argos have a 30 day money back policy. Take it back for a refund. Think yourself lucky he will not lose out through not being aware that he needs to look for Freeview HD.

You - and your dad - need to understand what terms mean, rather than just assuming something. The terms Full HD and HD Ready existed long before Freeview HD did.

You thought entirely wrong, as already mentioned both terms long pre-date Freeview HD.


Because no such channels existed, and none were planned.


Yes - you would be completely wasting your time - what would be the point writing to anyone? (even here) complaining that you didn't do your homework properly and so bought the wrong thing.

Simply take it back to Argos and swap it for a Freeview HD set (the clue is in the description!!).

I'm not bothered about me and Dad - as stated he has no problem getting his money back and a new one.

I AM bothered about the thousands (millions) buying new TV's now that the HD freeview channels are available, and buying the sets either thinking they ARE getting the channels and they are not, or thinking they will get them and they won't, and have to send the set back.

I can't see any problem with some kind of label on boxes and adverts saying exactly what you will get from the TV, especially now the HD channels are available. Is there anything wrong with "Freeview HD Channels included" label or something - or do tech and term savvy peeps enjoy people being *misled* so they can have a quiet giggle?? That's what I will be writing about. Labelling.

But there is a label "Freeview HD". Is that not good enough. You have been a member of these forums for 5 years so I am astounded that you did not know this.

What a lable like "FREEVIEW HD" rather than "FREEVIEW" like this product

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Produc...er/5299919.htm

Had at look at all the BUSH tv's and could not see one with Freeview HD

If the set has Freeview HD tuner onboard it generally has it advertised within the specifications.

If I'm not mistaken, Argos have a page or two explaining AV terminology.

If in doubt ask before buying.

I doubt anyone else thought that full HD meant Freeview HD. I don't see thousands, nay, millions complaining anywhere about being misled. You won't be taken anymore seriously with a letter than you are here.
Those with Freeview HD state that is what they have on the box usually. Argos certainly say in their descriptions.....If you didn't read what you were getting, it's not the fault of Argos.....

The Freeview HD and Freeview HD+ Designation which are backed by the UK government no less! (through BIS - Vince Cable's department) .
. are what people should be looking for .... as this means that the TV?STB works within the parameters of the D book for Interoperability in the UK.

the Full / HD /Ready designation which is a pan european designation by DigitaL Europe was set up before (m)any transmission were there and thus was only talking about the screen static resolution.

It's not ME - it's my DAD, an 80+yr old who hasn't a clue. And he's also a consumer/buyer. Should he ring me up every time he wants to buy something?? Grrrr !!!!!

It's nothing to do with "tech and term savvy peeps enjoying seeing others *misled* for the benefit of quiet giggle," as you put it. What you're asking for is another labelling system on top of the existing labelling system just because some can't be bothered to understand the current terms.

"HD Ready" and "Full HD" describe the display capabilities of the screen. They have nothing to do with the set's ability to receive Freeview HD high definition channels.

"Freeview HD" describes the ability of the TV tuner to receive High Definition TV broadcasts.

You won't agree, I'm sure. However, IMO we already over-legislate for stupidity in this country. There are strong laws in place to protect the consumer from their own ignorance. Just how far do you think we need to go? We don't need even more "dumbing down". We need people to take responsibility for their own decisions.

Should he ring up every time he's about to buy something but is unsure and needs clarification. YES! That's what sensible people do. They clarify before purchase so they don't waste their own time and that of the store, and then give the store the problem of a TV returned after being opened that now can't be sold as new. It's not just your Dad inconvenienced but the store staff, the back office staff, and the increase in costs to the retailer which, inevitably, find their way back to other consumers.

Got it. So it's his fault (a highly qualified engineer who was a former director of a large engineering firm) he can't get to grips with today's technology and terminology because he's well into his pension. I'll let him know. Cheers.

Not much point, seeing as you have already admitted that you don't know what Full HD and Freeview HD mean either.

Does he buy other things without reading whether what he is buying suits his needs? Does he buy ovens without checking whether they are gas or electic? Does he catch a bus without checking whether it will take him to his intended destination or not?

"a highly qualified engineer" .... so a man of education

"a former director of a large engineering firm" .... so somebody used to being in charge and dealing with complex situations.

I'm sorry, but you are hung by your own petard. Anybody is capable of asking the simple question "Will this set pick up the Freeview HD channels?". Some people are more capable than others. As an educated man who has been in a position of authority then I would have though your father more than most would be perfectly able to clarify the capabilities of a TV for himself.

I sense you expected to come here and receive a wave of sympathy. None of us here disagree that technology can be complex. That's exactly why we contribute to this and other forum sites: to help others. However, in the end each buyer must make their own choices and do their own research.

When I bought my current TV somehow I managed to get one (probably by accident) that does have Freeview HD inbuilt. I got lucky! If I scanned through a catalogue I would have assumed "Full HD" was the full freeview HD channels. I'd have (obviously) been wrong, but seeing as I am already set up, there's been no need for me to look up terminology since....so any "changes" to mean you have to have "Freeview HD Tuner" included would have passed me by.

So If I'd have bought Dad's TV yesterday for him - I'd have got it wrong; unless I had fully researched it beforehand, which I probably would have. Probably.

Anyway - he rang the helpline and the girl on the other end put him right - and she also said to him that "the majority of calls are from those expecting FullHD to include Freeview HD - and it's very confusing for people".

I agree.

That's the point....You shouldn't just 'Scan through a catalogue' when making a major purchase you know nothing about....

You and your dad have learnt a lesson - do some research before leaping into buying something.

An important life lesson there

But does a 24" TV really need HD?

- this forum is littered with people who can't see any difference between SD/HD on 32" sets

Can't see any difference because they are sitting too far away - presumably.

Nothing wrong with smaller screens so long as you are sat close enough to benefit. Even if they are just for casual viewing and you are not sat at a recommended distance, the pq should still look pleasing.

Oh dear. Despite showing my dad this thread - and reminded him what the call center woman said - he's off to Argosto see what they say and then Trading Standards.

Don't blame me - I've tried to stop him!!

Anyway - been doing a straw poll at our different work sites, said *I'm thinking of a new TV that gets the HD Freeview channels; what am I looking for, HD ready, Full HD or SOMETHING ELSE??

One got it spot on (apprentice lad!), one said "Full HD - No, HD Tuner" but of a dozen others, the answers are all over the place. Discounting the "My TV's 3d so I don't know"....one thinks if is simply say HD, then ALL the channels are in HD; a few are saying "Full HD but check" but so far over half say "Full HD will give you all the freeview HD channels".

What I'm finding is that "HD Ready" means nothing to most - and when I tell them Full HD doesn't necessarily mean all the Freeview HD channels then they become puzzled and admit it's confusing.

This is a techie site - I need to go onto a more general site and put the same question. Thanks for all the replies (seriously) today has been eye-opening!!

EDIT (about 24") I agree SD/HD hardly any difference - but Dad has poor eyesight (so would he tell anyway) but having HD may allow him to read things like scores, news banners etc more easily, especially if he sits close to the screen. Advice anyone??

Let me reframe the question -- if the TV came with a disc player, would you assume it was Blu-Ray?

This example doesn't quite work as well as it would have done had HD-DVD won out against BD, but you get the point.

HD refers to the capabilities of the set. Freeview/Freeview+/Freeview HD refers to the capabilities of the tuner module. DVD/BD etc would refer to the capabilities of the disc player.

Can't see that Bush have any Freeview HD sets at that size, you'll need to pay around £100 more for Freeview HD

lowest I can see is: Samsung UE22F5410 22 Inch Full HD Freeview HD Smart LED TV. £249.99

Nevertheless, it can and does lead to confusion because the HD Ready and Full HD etc. descriptions predate TVs with built-in TV tuners.

I would prefer to see a change, e.g.

HD Ready Monitor [no built-in TV tuner]
Full HD Monitor [no built-in TV tuner]
Freeview TV & HD Ready monitor [only has built-in SD TV tuner]
Freeview TV & Full HD monitor [only has built-in SD TV tuner]
Freeview HD Ready TV [has built-in HD TV tuner]
Freeview Full HD TV [has built-in HD TV tuner]

Only the last two would be truly HD TVs in the sense of the word as used for most of TV history and as used, for example, to describe Colour TVs. I think that would clarify it for most people, the allowed descriptions could do with a bit of an overhaul, really (but not necessarily the names I suggested off the top of my head).

What you are suggesting wouldn't clarify anything for those who can't be arsed to do any research.
Seems like they have trusted to luck on every purchase they make......