I felt very sorry for Neil. His interview with one of the female interviewers (name not known) spoke volumes about the sort of person he was and I really warmed to him. He needs to feel pride in himself and recognise his strengths and limitations.
Neil's business plan
2 of 3
Originally Posted by General Lunacy:
“He's not that strong a contestant anyway. Relentless positive thinking and salesmanship are his strong points, but is that enough?
He'd give Sugar a lot less trouble than Luisa, but she's much more of an overall package.
I imagine Leah will nick it in the end. She's very competent and less of a headache than the 'alpha female' Luisa.
Without business plans, i'd still rate Neil behind the other two, in terms of overall strength -Leah overtook him in my book.”
“He's not that strong a contestant anyway. Relentless positive thinking and salesmanship are his strong points, but is that enough?
He'd give Sugar a lot less trouble than Luisa, but she's much more of an overall package.
I imagine Leah will nick it in the end. She's very competent and less of a headache than the 'alpha female' Luisa.
Without business plans, i'd still rate Neil behind the other two, in terms of overall strength -Leah overtook him in my book.”
I don't rate Neil at all, at some point he will have to stop running in his dead dad story.
He needs to deal with that before it ruins him.
He smacks of a young man who follows a blue print of getting up the managerial ladder of somewhere rubbish bit very corporate, like Subway or Sunglasses hut.
He thinks being ruthless makes him effective . It does not, it makes him a twerp
Originally Posted by Rutakateki:
“I agree. I think Luisa still carries a black mark for how she ousted Jason. Also LS is probably still be smarting from the business with Stella English- the last thing he wants is another woman with the potential to be insubordinate.
I agree with you about Neil. I found his fanatical self-belief a bit disturbing. He's probably a more rounded person than this show portrays him, but even so, I like people to at least be able to entertain an amount of self-doubt.”
“I agree. I think Luisa still carries a black mark for how she ousted Jason. Also LS is probably still be smarting from the business with Stella English- the last thing he wants is another woman with the potential to be insubordinate.
I agree with you about Neil. I found his fanatical self-belief a bit disturbing. He's probably a more rounded person than this show portrays him, but even so, I like people to at least be able to entertain an amount of self-doubt.”
On Neil - I imagine his personality is very well rounded, but when it comes to the business end of things his thought processes don't quite match his willpower.
He responds to specific criticisms with generic or even irrelevant statements like 'I totally take that on board and appreciate what you are saying but I feel that I am the person to go into business with you Lord Sugar'
It's not quite in Fran territory but I think he lacks the general smarts of the two finalists. Admire his drive though.
Originally Posted by Damanda:
“I don't rate Neil at all, at some point he will have to stop running in his dead dad story.
He needs to deal with that before it ruins him.
He smacks of a young man who follows a blue print of getting up the managerial ladder of somewhere rubbish bit very corporate, like Subway or Sunglasses hut.
He thinks being ruthless makes him effective . It does not, it makes him a twerp”
“I don't rate Neil at all, at some point he will have to stop running in his dead dad story.
He needs to deal with that before it ruins him.
He smacks of a young man who follows a blue print of getting up the managerial ladder of somewhere rubbish bit very corporate, like Subway or Sunglasses hut.
He thinks being ruthless makes him effective . It does not, it makes him a twerp”
Agree with the general gist of this, too.
Originally Posted by Rutakateki:
“I agree. I think Luisa still carries a black mark for how she ousted Jason. Also LS is probably still smarting from the business with Stella English- the last thing he wants is another woman with the potential to be insubordinate.
I agree with you about Neil. I found his fanatical self-belief a bit disturbing. He's probably a more rounded person than this show portrays him, but even so, I like people to at least be able to entertain an amount of self-doubt.”
“I agree. I think Luisa still carries a black mark for how she ousted Jason. Also LS is probably still smarting from the business with Stella English- the last thing he wants is another woman with the potential to be insubordinate.
I agree with you about Neil. I found his fanatical self-belief a bit disturbing. He's probably a more rounded person than this show portrays him, but even so, I like people to at least be able to entertain an amount of self-doubt.”
That just simply wouldn't happen! The change of format ensures that. This is a 50:50 straight down the line business deal, there is no way another Stella English could happen as she would be a 50:50 partner with him and not working for him. Your argument just doesn't hold.If you watch Your fired you'd realise that he knows he shot himself in the foot and knew that his stubborn competitiveness was why he was fired. He probably is the candidate that has grown most after Leah in the whole process.
Originally Posted by grizzlyvamp:
“ That just simply wouldn't happen! The change of format ensures that. This is a 50:50 straight down the line business deal, there is no way another Stella English could happen as she would be a 50:50 partner with him and not working for him. Your argument just doesn't hold.”
“
That just simply wouldn't happen! The change of format ensures that. This is a 50:50 straight down the line business deal, there is no way another Stella English could happen as she would be a 50:50 partner with him and not working for him. Your argument just doesn't hold.”
The same scenario couldn't happen again, it's true. However, the potential for a troublesome business relationship is certainly there.
Quote:
“ He probably is the candidate that has grown most after Leah in the whole process.”
“ He probably is the candidate that has grown most after Leah in the whole process.”
I completely disagree. I don't think he has grown much during the process.
I don't know that I felt sorry for Neil in the end, to be honest.
I think he was given more chance than any of the other candidates to stay in the process; the interviewers and Alan Sugar himself all practically did everything they could, just stopping short of actually saying to him "change your business plan and you make the final", and he just wouldn't see what they were trying to do for him.
I suppose that single mindedness might have worked it's way into his make up after losing his Dad, which is sad, but I wanted to reach into the TV and shake him tonight! I really felt he threw away his opportunity.
I wouldn't be surprised if LAS does offer him a job in some capacity, though.
I think he was given more chance than any of the other candidates to stay in the process; the interviewers and Alan Sugar himself all practically did everything they could, just stopping short of actually saying to him "change your business plan and you make the final", and he just wouldn't see what they were trying to do for him.
I suppose that single mindedness might have worked it's way into his make up after losing his Dad, which is sad, but I wanted to reach into the TV and shake him tonight! I really felt he threw away his opportunity.
I wouldn't be surprised if LAS does offer him a job in some capacity, though.
Originally Posted by Rutakateki:
“The same scenario couldn't happen again, it's true. However, the potential for a troublesome business relationship is certainly there.”
“The same scenario couldn't happen again, it's true. However, the potential for a troublesome business relationship is certainly there.”
True but that's not what you said or even implying in your comment.
Originally Posted by Rutakateki:
“I completely disagree. I don't think he has grown much during the process.”
“I completely disagree. I don't think he has grown much during the process.”
I didn't like him much at all through out the whole process but I did warm to him in the end. He's shown he's credible and yes he's still aggressively competitive. But he has softened a lot and that takes a lot of growth, he learnt the important lesson of the difference between being passionate in your plan and pushing it forward and being blind in your plans failures and refusing to alter the faults (in this case the whole plan but the point stands).
Successful businesspeople need to know when they're wrong and barking up the wrong tree as well as having an eye for a good opportunity. You've got to have an exit strategy or a plan B to modify your approach if things don't work out.
Neil's self belief turned out to be a double edged sword. It had served him well all series, but when it came to his business plan he was utterly unwilling to even consider it wouldn't work and to modify it might be a good idea.
For that, he blew a gigantic hole in his prospects. His confidence caught him out.
Neil's self belief turned out to be a double edged sword. It had served him well all series, but when it came to his business plan he was utterly unwilling to even consider it wouldn't work and to modify it might be a good idea.
For that, he blew a gigantic hole in his prospects. His confidence caught him out.
Originally Posted by grizzlyvamp:
“True but that's not what you said or even implying in your comment.”
“True but that's not what you said or even implying in your comment.”
I said "the last thing he wants is another woman with the potential to be insubordinate." That doesn't imply anything, it's a simple statement. I stand by it.
Quote:
“ he learnt the important lesson of the difference between being passionate in your plan and pushing it forward and being blind in your plans failures and refusing to alter the faults (in this case the whole plan but the point stands).”
“ he learnt the important lesson of the difference between being passionate in your plan and pushing it forward and being blind in your plans failures and refusing to alter the faults (in this case the whole plan but the point stands).”
I would argue that he didn't learn that during the process, but at some point after he had been fired. He stuck to guns, even in what turned out to be his final boardroom. Therefore I also stand by my comment that I don't think he grew much during the process.
Originally Posted by Rutakateki:
“I would argue that he didn't learn that during the process, but at some point after he had been fired. He stuck to guns, even in what turned out to be his final boardroom. Therefore I also stand by my comment that I don't think he grew much during the process.”
“I would argue that he didn't learn that during the process, but at some point after he had been fired. He stuck to guns, even in what turned out to be his final boardroom. Therefore I also stand by my comment that I don't think he grew much during the process.”
One only has to compare the Neil Clough comments in weeks 1 and 2 with any of the final weeks to see how much he changed. He dropped his bravado. Became more serious and focused and less 'bitchy', not that he was that bitchy to begin with.
The Neil of the ready meals task differed so much, immensely in my opinion, from Neil in week one where he sought to over shadowed Jason. I think his turning point was the motivational speech in the team building activity. He receives personal feedback regarding personal content the contributed.
I feel like Neil is probably the strongest candidate we've ever seen on the show bar Helen, he has so much going for him, but it just all went wrong with the business plan.
I liked part of the idea and so did the interviewers it seemed and they desperately wanted him to modify it, but at least Neil had the courage to stick to his guns even if it meant the end for him in the process, I admire him for that. As Lord Sugar said, if it had been the old format, Neil would have walked this, you could tell how much he believed in him, I don't think I've ever seen him so upset to fire a candidate since Jadine.
I liked part of the idea and so did the interviewers it seemed and they desperately wanted him to modify it, but at least Neil had the courage to stick to his guns even if it meant the end for him in the process, I admire him for that. As Lord Sugar said, if it had been the old format, Neil would have walked this, you could tell how much he believed in him, I don't think I've ever seen him so upset to fire a candidate since Jadine.
Originally Posted by Rutakateki:
“I said "the last thing he wants is another woman with the potential to be insubordinate." That doesn't imply anything, it's a simple statement. I stand by it.
I would argue that he didn't learn that during the process, but at some point after he had been fired. He stuck to guns, even in what turned out to be his final boardroom. Therefore I also stand by my comment that I don't think he grew much during the process.”
“I said "the last thing he wants is another woman with the potential to be insubordinate." That doesn't imply anything, it's a simple statement. I stand by it.
I would argue that he didn't learn that during the process, but at some point after he had been fired. He stuck to guns, even in what turned out to be his final boardroom. Therefore I also stand by my comment that I don't think he grew much during the process.”
That whole part of your statement implies that he would in some way be her superior which in terms of the deal is not the case that was what I was getting at your choice of phrasing was in my opinion poor
Originally Posted by Poppysinbloom:
“One only has to compare the Neil Clough comments in weeks 1 and 2 with any of the final weeks to see how much he changed. He dropped his bravado. Became more serious and focused and less 'bitchy', not that he was that bitchy to begin with.
The Neil of the ready meals task differed so much, immensely in my opinion, from Neil in week one where he sought to over shadowed Jason. I think his turning point was the motivational speech in the team building activity. He receives personal feedback regarding personal content the contributed.”
“One only has to compare the Neil Clough comments in weeks 1 and 2 with any of the final weeks to see how much he changed. He dropped his bravado. Became more serious and focused and less 'bitchy', not that he was that bitchy to begin with.
The Neil of the ready meals task differed so much, immensely in my opinion, from Neil in week one where he sought to over shadowed Jason. I think his turning point was the motivational speech in the team building activity. He receives personal feedback regarding personal content the contributed.”
Thank you, couldn't have put it better myself
I disliked his over use of his Dads death. It was almost like a defence weapon he would use, nobody could put him down after it. I found it pretty distasteful.
As for the business plan, it was his own ego that let him down. He has such an overinflated opinion of his own self worth, he couldn't admit he was wrong.
Helen was a far better contestant.
As for the business plan, it was his own ego that let him down. He has such an overinflated opinion of his own self worth, he couldn't admit he was wrong.
Helen was a far better contestant.
I'm completely gutted Neil didn't make the final two (and win,) but have to say, that business plan was NEVER going to work. 
Wonder if LS will offer him a job? He clearly really liked him.
Wonder if LS will offer him a job? He clearly really liked him.
Originally Posted by grizzlyvamp:
“Thank you, couldn't have put it better myself”
“Thank you, couldn't have put it better myself
”
Well that's nice, but I'm sure you could ...
Originally Posted by Damanda:
“I don't rate Neil at all, at some point he will have to stop running in his dead dad story.
He needs to deal with that before it ruins him.
He smacks of a young man who follows a blue print of getting up the managerial ladder of somewhere rubbish bit very corporate, like Subway or Sunglasses hut.
He thinks being ruthless makes him effective . It does not, it makes him a twerp”
“I don't rate Neil at all, at some point he will have to stop running in his dead dad story.
He needs to deal with that before it ruins him.
He smacks of a young man who follows a blue print of getting up the managerial ladder of somewhere rubbish bit very corporate, like Subway or Sunglasses hut.
He thinks being ruthless makes him effective . It does not, it makes him a twerp”
It seems Lord Sugar does not agree. I've never seen him more upset at losing someone, and I wouldn't mind betting he offers him a job.
Originally Posted by Stormwave UK:
“I disliked his over use of his Dads death. It was almost like a defence weapon he would use, nobody could put him down after it. I found it pretty distasteful.
As for the business plan, it was his own ego that let him down. He has such an overinflated opinion of his own self worth, he couldn't admit he was wrong.
Helen was a far better contestant.”
“I disliked his over use of his Dads death. It was almost like a defence weapon he would use, nobody could put him down after it. I found it pretty distasteful.
As for the business plan, it was his own ego that let him down. He has such an overinflated opinion of his own self worth, he couldn't admit he was wrong.
Helen was a far better contestant.”
Totally disagree there. He used it twice if memory serves me correctly - once in the motivational speech on the day trip task and in the interview where his character was coming into question and referencing his father's illness and death as to part of why he is how is. Perfectly legit and not what I would call over use. Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't think of anywhere else where he mentions it. It may well have come up in the house but that's a separate issue altogether.
Look into his background, look at the person on the You're fired show, yes he messed up on that but that person realised what he did and recognised the weakness, that is not a person deserving of any sort of "put down" for want of a better word.
I agree Helen probably was the better candidate but I would say it was a much closer call than you think. The difference was that Helen was fairly well rounded going into the process whereas Neil had a lot of work to do to become more rounded which is what we see in the show.
Originally Posted by sutie:
“It seems Lord Sugar does not agree. I've never seen him more upset at losing someone, and I wouldn't mind betting he offers him a job.”
“It seems Lord Sugar does not agree. I've never seen him more upset at losing someone, and I wouldn't mind betting he offers him a job.”
I don't care that sugar doesn't agree.
He employed Stella, and Michelle and Yasmina and so on, he has made more errors (in this process) than he has got it right
I don't particularly like Neil but talk about throwing it away!!! He was certainly the most competent candidate in the first 10 weeks albeit the standard wasn't tremendously high tbh.
It was plainly obvious to anyone with an IQ above room temperature that if Neil had a reasonable business plan, he'd be in the final.
It was plainly obvious to anyone with an IQ above room temperature that if Neil had a reasonable business plan, he'd be in the final.
Neil came across as a "nice guy" on the "final five" programme, seemed to have a lot of supporters in his local community, more so than the other contestants.
People can already market their properties themselves. It's called Gumtree.
Perhaps Neil's never heard of the site.
Perhaps Neil's never heard of the site.
I don't think the business plan itself got him fired, as the rather minor failings could have been amended.
It was the fact that despite his grilling in the interviews, AND Lord Sugar telling him, Neil just couldn't see the flaws in his plan. He was passionate to the point of blindness and that would make him a very difficult business partner.
It was the fact that despite his grilling in the interviews, AND Lord Sugar telling him, Neil just couldn't see the flaws in his plan. He was passionate to the point of blindness and that would make him a very difficult business partner.
Neil didn't seem to grasp the inherent contradiction in his plan. He wants people to sell their own properties. I assume the punters pay Neil a fee to promote their homes on his site. But Neil also wanted estate agents to advertise on his site? This made no sense. Why would any estate agent want to be part of website that was encouraging people not to use estate agents? LOL The whole plan was bonkers.
In hindsight it might have been better had his business plan had something to do with his job. Doesn't he manage soccer coaching or something like that? He should have stuck with what he knows rather than going into the home buying market. Another option would be to go with his original idea but scrap the estate agents part of it. Just create a website where you help people to sell their own homes and Neil gets a fee for each property put on his website. I don't know if that would make him a lot of money but that would seem the best 'PLAN B' route.
The whole plan was bonkers. In hindsight it might have been better had his business plan had something to do with his job. Doesn't he manage soccer coaching or something like that? He should have stuck with what he knows rather than going into the home buying market. Another option would be to go with his original idea but scrap the estate agents part of it. Just create a website where you help people to sell their own homes and Neil gets a fee for each property put on his website. I don't know if that would make him a lot of money but that would seem the best 'PLAN B' route.
2 of 3
