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The Pro Cycling Thread (Part 2)


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Old 09-07-2013, 17:05
Dixon
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Cav doesn't look himself this year!
Is this because he's moved to a weaker team, or just that he's not in top top form and fitness?
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Old 09-07-2013, 17:08
Thomas007
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I have £300 on Froome at 1/7. Not a ton of money to be won but it should be won.
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Old 09-07-2013, 17:13
divingbboy
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My first reaction was ****, that was an unnecessary and dangerous attack. Cav's in trouble. Replays are not helping all 'that' much.
The problem is that the Argos guy was all over the shop, and I think he was moving right as Cav started to move left. Pretty much a racing incident IMO, but that front on view didn't look good.
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Old 09-07-2013, 17:14
divingbboy
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Cav doesn't look himself this year!
Is this because he's moved to a weaker team, or just that he's not in top top form and fitness?
I think the team need to improve their lead-outs.
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Old 09-07-2013, 17:16
Lucidia2011
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The problem is that the Argos guy was all over the shop, and I think he was moving right as Cav started to move left. Pretty much a racing incident IMO, but that front on view didn't look good.
Agreed. It just seemed like Cav could have held him off better without needing the huge barging motion.
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Old 09-07-2013, 17:17
divingbboy
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Cavendish PISSED!
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Old 09-07-2013, 17:18
xfactorisgr8
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Mark Cavendish isnt a very nice person is he
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Old 09-07-2013, 17:18
Lucidia2011
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Yep, wasn't expecting him to play nice with that one. Cav being Cav again. Not a good look.
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Old 09-07-2013, 17:18
mtj
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Cav got himself a nice little souvenir from the reporter...
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Old 09-07-2013, 17:23
divingbboy
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Common perception from cycling journos on twitter was that Veelers was trying to subtly impede Cav and Cav wasn't having it.
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Old 09-07-2013, 17:29
Lucidia2011
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That's how i saw it (admittedly i'm no expert here ) We do know he's not the kind of person to suffer that lightly. We can see how pissed he was. I just think he is experienced enough to protect himself without needing to KO the other guy? If he was subtle, Cav wasn't so much. The reaction from coms and presenters was telling. They tried to pretend like they didn't see what had happened for a while, then were slow to give their POV. Idk, Cav is just so aggressive i kinda expect this from him, could be wrong. His reaction afterwards was also interesting but not at all unexpected.

I love Cav, but he can be a loose cannon, it's understandable, he wants it so bad, it shows, i wouldn't hold it against him. IF this is what happened....idk?
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Old 09-07-2013, 17:35
divingbboy
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That's how i saw it (admittedly i'm no expert here ) We do know he's not the kind of person to suffer that lightly. We can see how pissed he was. I just think he is experienced enough to protect himself without needing to KO the other guy? If he was subtle, Cav wasn't. The reaction from coms and presenters was telling. They tried to pretend like they didn't see what had happened for a while, then were slow to give their POV. Idk, Cav is just so aggressive i kinda expect this from him, could be wrong. His reaction afterwards was also interesting but not at all unexpected.
Someone's done a frame by frame breakdown already! Having seen it, I have to say that Veelers was bloody sneaky. He's dropping back in the pack, having done his job, sneaks a look back at Cav, and just as Cav turns up the juice, Veelers moves over on him. Veelers knew what he was doing, I'm sure.
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Old 09-07-2013, 17:39
Lucidia2011
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Which makes me believe even more that Cav did too...?
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Old 09-07-2013, 17:39
wolfticket
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I think Cav just lost it briefly.

The overhead shot was ambiguous, but the front view they showed once on ITV was pretty damning.
Veelers moved across him forcing Cav had to go round, which is naughty. But in reaction to this Cav basically checked him and took him down as he cut across in front. It was pretty blatant.

I even had the feeling Cav knew what he'd done and regretted before he crossed the line. That didn't look the usual "angry he missed out" reaction.
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Old 09-07-2013, 17:42
Lucidia2011
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Also agreed. It looked like a ''shit.. i just did that for nothing'' reaction....

Moment of madness. A quick instinctual burst of anger and then regret. I think he knows it was out of line, that's why he couldn't face the questioning yet...
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Old 09-07-2013, 18:08
Lucidia2011
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Mark Cavendish ‏@MarkCavendish
Not seen a replay of the final yet, but was involved in an incident with Tom Veelers. Whatever has happened, if I'm at fault, I'm sorry.

Mark Cavendish ‏@MarkCavendish
There's no way I'd move on a rider deliberately, especially one not contesting a sprint. I hope @tom_veelers is ok.

Just seen the sprint. I believe I didn't move line. I'm actually coming past Veelers & we touch elbows when he moves. Anyway, hope he's ok.

Sophie Smith ‏@SophieSmith86
Argos-Shimano's @tom_veelers adamant Cavendish was at fault in that crash. He says he'll leave everything to the race jury. #TdF
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Old 09-07-2013, 18:11
Lucidia2011
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There was another possible i had considered which i've just seen theorized online..... that Cav knew he was beaten and why... so lashed out in temper at Veelers.

That's a whole 'nother level of accusation. I think i'll shut up already
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Old 09-07-2013, 18:14
davethecue
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If someone had done that to Chris Froome, I think the u.k. media would be up in arms

I'm not a regular cycling watcher but to me , he was riding 'without due care and attention' at best
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Old 09-07-2013, 18:30
divingbboy
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Which makes me believe even more that Cav did too...?
Meaning I wasn't 100% sure that Veeler's actions were intentional until I saw the frame-by-frame.
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Old 09-07-2013, 18:36
Lucidia2011
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Yeah, i mean, if his intentions were intentional then there was more reason for Cav's intentions to be intentional too, thus both knew what they were doing.
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Old 09-07-2013, 18:57
afx237vi
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I think the team need to improve their lead-outs.
Steegmans gave him a brilliant lead-out, but for whatever reason Cav chose not to follow it.

My view is that Veelers was trying to be sneaky and get in the way of Cav's sprint by subtly drifting towards his line and Cav thought "I ain't having that" and tried to nudge him out the way. It's the stuff that always happens in a sprint, but Cav is usually out in front by then.
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Old 09-07-2013, 19:03
divingbboy
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@MarkCavendish 1m
Can all sprint experts on twitter go & try flicking their bike right at 65kph without leaning your body left to balance & come back to me.

And this is why I love Cav!
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Old 09-07-2013, 19:03
Mystical123
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Yeah, i mean, if his intentions were intentional then there was more reason for Cav's intentions to be intentional too, thus both knew what they were doing.
You mean his actions, right? Intentions are always intentional...

Veelers was moving fairly quickly (they all were, it was the start of the sprint after all!), I doubt Cav would even have had time to think that he would take him out deliberately if he wasn't concentrating on the sprint! If Cav didn't move off-line, which it doesn't look as if he did, then it's a racing incident at worst for Cav, if not a deliberate attempt to impede him.
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Old 09-07-2013, 19:06
divingbboy
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Steegmans gave him a brilliant lead-out, but for whatever reason Cav chose not to follow it.

My view is that Veelers was trying to be sneaky and get in the way of Cav's sprint by subtly drifting towards his line and Cav thought "I ain't having that" and tried to nudge him out the way. It's the stuff that always happens in a sprint, but Cav is usually out in front by then.
Yep, I think so. Even if the race jurors believe that Cav's actions were intentional (they probably were, and probably will), they'll see what Veelers was up to and think, "hey, if you're going to play with fire........."
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Old 09-07-2013, 19:25
swingaleg
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I turned off straight after the race finish so I don't know what's happened since............I assume the Commissars are looking at the incident

My first reaction was that it was probably OK from Cav..........based on what other people get away with and what appear to be the accepted norms for sprinters

Leaning is definitely OK, shovng isn't..........so that's the dividing line. Was it a lean or was it a shove. There's been cases before where two riders lean into each each, separate, come together again............is that shoulder charging ?

A certain amount of knee and elbow action seems to be allowed...............

I suppose the point is that they don't have precise rules and each case is looked at on its merits

I think Cav might get a fine but basically because the guy fell off and it didn't look good on TV.
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