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The Pro Cycling Thread (Part 2)
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tealady
17-07-2016
Originally Posted by d'@ve:
“Yes, very sad news.

I thought ITV 4 had a nice ending to the highlights programme, posting Chris's tribute to his mum in full with appropriate music, and slow enough to let us comfortably read it all.”

Agreed.
batdude_uk1
17-07-2016
I feel really bad for Chris, what a tragic way for his mum to go.
My deepest thoughts are with him and the rest of his family.

It was a lovely ending by ITV4.
gemma-the-husky
18-07-2016
Just put ITV4 on and Tony Martin/Julian Alaphilippe on a breakaway.

Commentators didn't mention it, but I wonder if Alaphilippe might be "given" the stage by the main players in the peloton.
swingaleg
18-07-2016
Originally Posted by gemma-the-husky:
“Just put ITV4 on and Tony Martin/Julian Alaphilippe on a breakaway.

Commentators didn't mention it, but I wonder if Alaphilippe might be "given" the stage by the main players in the peloton.”

Doubt it !

I don't think he'd be 'given' the stage even if it's just him and Martin.....Martin is leaving the team so might not be that bothered about team instructions if he thinks he could win. .........apparently he's already ignored team orders to wait up for another group caught inbetween to form a bigger breakaway

Can't see these two staying out though..........too many teams sniffing a stage win today

Looks like a puncheurs finish.........Sagan would be big favourite *

they reckon the finish is too steep for the pure sprinters ........though Cav is still there so might fancy his chances as he's apparently going to climb off after today

edit........and Cancellara of course as we're in Switzerland ! He might have been saving himself for today & might go for a long one
Edward_Sloley
18-07-2016
Interesting interview 'en-route' with Doug Ryder - his team (DD) is looking to get an African cyclist 'of colour' on a Grand Tour GC podium within 5 years. If nothing else, that's certainly ambitious.
Edward_Sloley
18-07-2016
Sagan won his third stage by a tyre!

Kristoff was in position to hold on for the win and even did a 'winner's' interview with Norwegian TV; afterwards, he realised that he lost it as he lunged after the line.

Props to the ASO for giving the day's combativity award to both Martin and Alaphilippe. It was the best thing they could realistically hope for as the peloton haven't forgotten about that stage in the 2013 Vuelta.

Second rest day tomorrow, then 4 consecutive days in the mountains (!) before the annual Cavenue sprint (with or without a certain Manxman).

-----

With half the TdP peloton gone and the best riders doing the Tour, today's ITT was an excellent opportunity for Dowsett to claim his first WT victory since the 2013 Giro. He delivered.

Wellens (as expected) secured a comfortable GC victory.
cmq2
18-07-2016
Beppu's weird crash in the TdPoland at the ITT turn: https://twitter.com/CyclingHubTV/sta...04187873198080
culttvfan
19-07-2016
This year's Sky team must surely be the strongest yet. In previous years Froome has been isolated on occasions but so far it's worked like clockwork. For instance, Sunday's stage, which was predicted to see plenty of GC attacks, saw pretty much nothing. Bardet tried on the second Grand Colombier ascent but Sky just rode tempo and pulled him back with apparent ease. And Chris himself has improved. Not only that, but he's finding new ways of beating his rivals, who must be extremely demoralized.

With the whole of Team Sky still intact and the rest day giving Stannard more time to recover, it's hard to see anything barring a crash stopping Chris winning his third Tour.

And if Sky had seen what was patently obvious in the 2012 Tour and switched support to the clearly stronger Froome it would be 4 Tours, probably 5 if he hadn't crashed in 2014, but that's another story.
Marti S
19-07-2016
Originally Posted by culttvfan:
“This year's Sky team must surely be the strongest yet. In previous years Froome has been isolated on occasions but so far it's worked like clockwork. For instance, Sunday's stage, which was predicted to see plenty of GC attacks, saw pretty much nothing. Bardet tried on the second Grand Colombier ascent but Sky just rode tempo and pulled him back with apparent ease. And Chris himself has improved. Not only that, but he's finding new ways of beating his rivals, who must be extremely demoralized.

With the whole of Team Sky still intact and the rest day giving more time for Stannard to recover, it's hard to see anything barring a crash stopping Chris winning his third Tour.

If Sky had seen what was patently obvious in the 2012 Tour and switched support to the clearly stronger Froome it would be 4 Tours, probably 5 if he hadn't been injured in 2014, but that's another story.”

If Sky had switched to Froome in 2012, Sky wouldnt have got 1st and 2nd because Wiggins would have spit his dummy out the pram and walked

From a viewers point of view Sky have been too dominant, that's not Skys fault so much has the other teams are looking a little weak. In 2013 by far Moviestar was the strongest team and isolated Froome on many occasions, was great viewing, so combative
culttvfan
19-07-2016
Originally Posted by Marti S:
“If Sky had switched to Froome in 2012, Sky wouldnt have got 1st and 2nd because Wiggins would have spit his dummy out the pram and walked

From a viewers point of view Sky have been too dominant, that's not Skys fault so much has the other teams are looking a little weak. In 2013 by far Moviestar was the strongest team and isolated Froome on many occasions, was great viewing, so combative”

Regarding 2012, yes, I'm sure you're right. I don't know if you've read Froome's book but both riders were told pre race that although Wiggins went in as team leader, if Froome proved to be stronger, particularly in the mountains, then they would switch to him. Sky obviously reneged on that, notably when they called Chris back on that infamous stage but if they wanted a 1-2 then retaining Wiggins as leader was probably their best option for the reason you state.

According to Froome, even before that incident, the team atmosphere was very bad because of Wiggins, not just between Chris and Wiggins, but also between the rest of the team and Wiggins, who would invariably be in one of his childish sulks if he didn't get exactly his own way.
Marti S
19-07-2016
No I didnt know that, kind of puts it all in perspective now, I'm sure Team Sky has a far better team spirit now Wiggins has gone
grassmarket
19-07-2016
Originally Posted by Marti S:
“If Sky had switched to Froome in 2012, Sky wouldnt have got 1st and 2nd because Wiggins would have spit his dummy out the pram and walked
”

It would have not have happened that way, because if Sky had switched support to Froome it would have destroyed Sky's reputation as a team. The reason they needed to support Wiggins in 2012 was that Wiggins had based his whole 4 years after Beijing on re-inventing himself as a Grand Tour contender. If they'd stabbed him in the back by switching to Froome at the last minute, none of the other big names would have stuck with Sky the way they have, because how could they trust any Sky promises?
grassmarket
19-07-2016
Originally Posted by culttvfan:
“According to Froome, even before that incident, the team atmosphere was very bad because of Wiggins, not just between Chris and Wiggins, but also between the rest of the team and Wiggins, who would invariably be in one of his childish sulks if he didn't get exactly his own way.”

LIke I say, Wiggins made a lot of gruelling sacrifices to turn himself into a GT rider, so he would have had a perfect right to be annoyed if it turned out at the very last minute that they had all been for nothing. By not attacking Wiggins, Froome guaranteed himself the full support of the best team in cycling for the next several Tours, so it in the long-term it was the better deal. Plus he himself could be sure that he would not be betrayed that (arguably) Quintana and Richie Porte have been betrayed this Tour.
Edward_Sloley
19-07-2016
Kennaugh has taken himself out of the Olympic road squad. His spot has been given to Cummings.
cmq2
19-07-2016
William Fotheringham says Cavendish has pulled out of the Tour: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...ics?CMP=twt_gu

Confirmation from DDD: http://africasteam.com/2016/07/19/ma...our-de-france/

Cavendish said before the Tour:
Quote:
“I aim to go to Paris and I will see what happens.

Don't get me wrong, last year the last few days were so crazy-hard and I was in bed for four days afterwards. I can't really afford that before the Olympics so we'll take every day as it comes. But I don't have a plan to stop the tour.”

http://www.sportinglife.com/other-sp...efore-rio-2016

I would have thought winning on the Champs Elysees would count for more that an Ominium win plus it takes him closer to the record. But I suspect promises were made to British Cycling to win selection.
apaul
19-07-2016
He's got several wins in Paris, but no Olympic medal.
Edward_Sloley
19-07-2016
He's already won the Champs stage several times, and I don't think the Merckx record will fall out of reach for want of a single stage, regardless of prestige.

Seeing as he's 31 years of age, Rio 2016 is his last realistic opportunity for an Olympic medal* and he sure as hell wouldn't have spent significant time on the track throughout the season if he wasn't serious about achieving that goal.

[* Even with the form he's shown this month, I doubt he'll get the better of Gaviria in the omnium]

-----

The blokes on BeSpoke (on 5Live right now) are not aware he's left! They're still talking like he hasn't yet decided whether or not to ride on...just 2 minutes later, it's announced on the news.
Eater Sundae
19-07-2016
Originally Posted by apaul:
“He's got several wins in Paris, but no Olympic medal.”

This. Plus he's had a great tour so far and owes his team nothing.
aggs
19-07-2016
Originally Posted by culttvfan:
“Regarding 2012, yes, I'm sure you're right. I don't know if you've read Froome's book but both riders were told pre race that although Wiggins went in as team leader, if Froome proved to be stronger, particularly in the mountains, then they would switch to him. Sky obviously reneged on that, notably when they called Chris back on that infamous stage but if they wanted a 1-2 then retaining Wiggins as leader was probably their best option for the reason you state.

According to Froome, even before that incident, the team atmosphere was very bad because of Wiggins, not just between Chris and Wiggins, but also between the rest of the team and Wiggins, who would invariably be in one of his childish sulks if he didn't get exactly his own way.”

It's a whole different situation riding as Team Leader - Wiggins was proven as a contender and Froome an unknown quantity. Tour history is littered with squad number 2's who theoretically could have beaten their leader (Le Mond/Hinault, Indurain/Delgado for starters) - but you could say that's the benefit of being second in command ... none of the pressure to be good and on it every single stage and the knowledge that a bad day isn't a big deal.
apaul
20-07-2016
Originally Posted by culttvfan:
“
And if Sky had seen what was patently obvious in the 2012 Tour and switched support to the clearly stronger Froome it would be 4 Tours, probably 5 if he hadn't crashed in 2014, but that's another story.”

Wiggins won by over 3 minutes in 2012 because of his TT dominance and Froome's puncture. Do you really think the route was mountainous enough for Froome to gain that time? Froome assisting his team leader, which is what he was paid to do, probably cost him another stage win. I doubt it cost him the Tour.
culttvfan
20-07-2016
Originally Posted by apaul:
“Wiggins won by over 3 minutes in 2012 because of his TT dominance and Froome's puncture. Do you really think the route was mountainous enough for Froome to gain that time? Froome assisting his team leader, which is what he was paid to do, probably cost him another stage win. I doubt it cost him the Tour.”

In my opinion, unquestionably, even though it was a comparatively 'easy' year climbing wise.

Firstly, bear in mind, as a super-domestique, Froome was having to do much more work in the mountains wet-nursing Wiggins than if he'd been team leader, and would have had more in reserve to mount attacks.

Secondly, Froome was having to ride at a pace that Wiggins could cope with, and we saw what happened on the odd occasion Froome exceeded that pace, and I've little doubt Chris could have gone quicker on many other occasions. Over the course of the Tour I'm sure he would have easily made up that 3 minutes plus a fair bit more.

For team credibility and loyalty reasons I can sort of understand why they stuck with Wiggins, which then makes you wonder, according to Froome's version of events, why Brailsford said to Froome and Wiggins that he would switch to Froome if he was stronger.

Anyway, to current matters. For me Froome not only has the strongest team he's ever had, but is also the strongest he's ever been. My view is he would still probably win the Tour if you put him on any of the other top half dozen or so teams. What do others think?
grassmarket
20-07-2016
Originally Posted by culttvfan:
“
Anyway, to current matters. For me Froome not only has the strongest team he's ever had, but is also the strongest he's ever been. My view is he would still probably win the Tour if you put him on any of the other top half dozen or so teams. What do others think?”

Maybe, but I don't think the other teams are as good as Sky at doing the day-to-day stuff on the non-competitive stages. Look at the mess BMC have got themselves in by failing to support Richie Porte properly
Mark F
20-07-2016
How would you rate Cavendish chances of getting a medal?

I guess he will be pretty confident and giving himself the best chance possible but people might be expecting Cavendish to just turn up and win (as maybe happened in the Road Race 2012)
grassmarket
20-07-2016
Originally Posted by Mark F:
“I guess he will be pretty confident and giving himself the best chance possible but people might be expecting Cavendish to just turn up and win (as maybe happened in the Road Race 2012)”

Decent chance of a medal, but the Omnium is one of those track events, like the Madison, where the gold will probably go to one of the small band of specialists who ride half-a-dozen events a year.
aggs
20-07-2016
I wish the Madison was still in - I love it

Cav and the omnium is a bit of an unknown quantity - I know he won in Lithuania was it? But I don't think he's raced against the other main contenders at all?

Still, one thing about the cycling squad - there are no passengers. He will be in because he is seen as being the best at that discipline and in with a shout. Even being Mark Cavendish wouldn't cut any selection ice if he wasn't.

I want him to get a medal so much. He is and has been such a superstar and great ambassador - I'd hate for him to have to have a 'yeah, but' over his career.
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