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The Pro Cycling Thread (Part 2) |
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#101 |
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Edinburgh
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Am in California at the moment which means the tour is on at breakfast time. It is still Phil and Paul on the commentary,which means that they must be doing cues for NBC while ITV are on a break and vice versa.
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#102 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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Quote:
Am in California at the moment which means the tour is on at breakfast time. It is still Phil and Paul on the commentary,which means that they must be doing cues for NBC while ITV are on a break and vice versa.
IINM, Liggett and Sherwen also do commentary for Australia (and probably South Africa?). One other thing that you may have noticed, and perhaps why this arrangement is used, is that since the US is a bit looser than the UK in terms of regulating advert spacing (which is to say, there are no regulations whatsoever), NBC on mountain stages (especially the stage in the Alps that they show from start to finish each year) will do 2 minutes of racing into 3 minutes of adverts into 2 minutes of racing into 3 minutes of adverts... during descents and valley portions before doing 40-50 minutes without interruption (though typically the climbs done like this, such as Alpe d'Huez, during the climb will be sponsored and Liggett will do a read every few minutes ("this climb of Alpe d'Huez is brought to you without interruption by Nissan"). |
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#103 |
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Join Date: May 2008
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They isolated him the other day but it didn't do them any good..............
![]() (I really can't bear Riis. Top of my all time grrr list. Even worse than Virenque). |
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#104 |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,272
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Don't tell me... Did they say he must be doping?
It's the most strange place.... They don't like Froome because they are conviced that he and Sky are doping. And they want Valverde and mainly Contador to beat him.... 2 men banned for doping, one of them has had a Tour taken way from him. Bizarre! To be fair to long term cycling fans they do have a hell of a lot of reason to doubt anything these days. Moreover most traditional fans are hardly enamoured with Sky and Dave Brailsford, and they haven't been as transparent as was originally promised (although Millar recently said he didn't actually blame them!) I still stick to the fact that if Sky are doping then the whole of British Cycling have been for years, and that just seems impossible. It would rank above the East German regime for deception who could do what they wanted shut behind the Iron Curtain. Cycling fans like to mock about marginal gains but Brailsford has simply transferred his methods that made for track domination onto the road. Surely it stands to reason that at the top level of sport, a fraction of a percent gained here, there and everywhere does actually make a difference? |
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#105 |
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Join Date: May 2008
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Well, if they didn't the riders would still be wearing knitted kit, riding steel frames and having inner tubes in the tyres.
I'd call myself a long term cycling fan ... been a fan since the only TV coverage was grainy footage on World of Sport and I actually quite like Team Sky and SirDave. But then, I could never chose between Obree and Boardman, either. I think one of the biggest problems is that what are the old guard are coming towards the end of their career and due to a variety of reasons - age not being the least of it - that 5th gear and extra kick works only intermittently. The era cycling finds itself in means that one person cannot dominate a season like used to happen and things are spread about more. The days of riding yourself into Tour form in the Giro have long gone. |
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#106 |
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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Cycling fans like to mock about marginal gains but Brailsford has simply transferred his methods that made for track domination onto the road. Surely it stands to reason that at the top level of sport, a fraction of a percent gained here, there and everywhere does actually make a difference?
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#107 |
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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If the Sky “marginal gains on lots of fronts” method is true, then we would surely expect other teams to try and make (at least some of) the same gains, certainly the ones that they can afford. Does anyone know if other teams have started doing things that they didn’t do before, but that Sky already do?
I heard (or maybe read, I’m not sure) that Sky started the warm down routine (on the stationary bikes) and that other teams have now followed suit. Does anyone who follows the sport more closely that I do know if this is the case? Also, does anyone know of any other of Sky’s known methods have been taken on board by others? |
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#108 |
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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Quote:
If the Sky “marginal gains on lots of fronts” method is true, then we would surely expect other teams to try and make (at least some of) the same gains, certainly the ones that they can afford. Does anyone know if other teams have started doing things that they didn’t do before, but that Sky already do?
I heard (or maybe read, I’m not sure) that Sky started the warm down routine (on the stationary bikes) and that other teams have now followed suit. Does anyone who follows the sport more closely that I do know if this is the case? Also, does anyone know of any other of Sky’s known methods have been taken on board by others? |
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#109 |
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Join Date: May 2008
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I think the biggest marginal gain that Sky have is in their headology (to borrow from Granny Weatherwax/Terry Pratchett). The benfit of actually believing that riding clean your marginal gains make a difference will actually make a large marginal difference in itself.
I've followed cycling too long to not be wary, but I'm also optimistic that in Team Sky and it's associated riders are what they say they are. If it means cycling is finally coming out of the darker days, then I'm happy to be glass half full until proved otherwise. |
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#110 |
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You are right regarding marginal gains. Other teams have indeed followed suit. For instance, regarding warm downs, you may have seen them doing this at the end of stages if you've been watching The Tour. Marginal gains may give you a very small, short term advantage, but that's all. Call me a cynic but I've lost count of the number of times I've heard the same sort of thing over the 30 odd years I've been following pro cycling, and invariably the teams spouting this nonsense have later been found out to be systemic dopers (US Postal, Festina, Rabobank etc.
It seemed to me that if any of Sky’s methods to achieve these “marginal gains” are now being copied by others, then it might give some validity to Sky’s claims. In motor racing, F1 teams do their best to find out all the little tweaks done by the opposition and make use of them. I would expect the same in cycling. |
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#111 |
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Join Date: May 2008
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Yes, the problem with anything like this is that the statements made by someone telling the truth and someone lying will be the same.
It seemed to me that if any of Sky’s methods to achieve these “marginal gains” are now being copied by others, then it might give some validity to Sky’s claims. In motor racing, F1 teams do their best to find out all the little tweaks done by the opposition and make use of them. I would expect the same in cycling. Somehow tri-bars were seen as an unfair advantage and performancing enhancing drugs were just what you did to get through. Riders treated heart monitors something akin to wizardry and had wires that were coupled up to nothing at all preferring to ride on feel. I think that's the big thing, somehow it seems that by riding to numbers it takes the romance away. |
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#112 |
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dagenham, Essex.
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Quote:
If the Sky “marginal gains on lots of fronts” method is true, then we would surely expect other teams to try and make (at least some of) the same gains, certainly the ones that they can afford. Does anyone know if other teams have started doing things that they didn’t do before, but that Sky already do?
I heard (or maybe read, I’m not sure) that Sky started the warm down routine (on the stationary bikes) and that other teams have now followed suit. Does anyone who follows the sport more closely that I do know if this is the case? Also, does anyone know of any other of Sky’s known methods have been taken on board by others? If i remember he was only 7 sec behind Wiggins in the Giro TT. Ok Wiggins was not in 100% form, but i think that's an impressive improvement from Nibali.... Because he put in the work....He totally dominated the Giro... I was very impressed with Tanel Kangert aswell. You can tell the riders who haven't put in the work this season... As for the warm down... I think i remember Cavendish last year saying that the other teams used to laugh at them (Sky) when they did this.... Now they all do it! |
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#113 |
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I can't work out if the clinic section on cyclingnews is full of people who believe what they're saying or are just on the wind up. Either way it makes for essential reading.
That went around like a fact for a few days, until someone pointed out that 30kg is nearly 4st ! ![]() No wonder Brailsford doesn't want the Froome power data to come out... Too many pseudo experts out there... Like me. Anyway... It's the Contador fan club over there. So it's not or never going to be Sky/Froome/Brailsford friendly. |
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#114 |
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On a level of truly pathetic, how does this score? Quote:
Orla Chennaoui @SkyOrla 43m As Cavendish aims for a Tours turnaround, reports he's no longer welcome at the lucrative Dutch Boxmeer Criterium, for run-in with Veelers.
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#115 |
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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Well i think the penny has dropped at Astana. Nibali who was losing chunks of time in TT's went and did the hours in a wind tunnel and his times have improved a whole lot
If i remember he was only 7 sec behind Wiggins in the Giro TT. Ok Wiggins was not in 100% form, but i think that's an impressive improvement from Nibali.... Because he put in the work....He totally dominated the Giro... I was very impressed with Tanel Kangert aswell. You can tell the riders who haven't put in the work this season... As for the warm down... I think i remember Cavendish last year saying that the other teams used to laugh at them (Sky) when they did this.... Now they all do it! |
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#116 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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If Sky 'are' doping i very much doubt they are the only ones. I still believe marginal gains have a great effect, whether they make up the greater share of Sky dominance relative to how much extra they get from their doping program in comparison to other teams, idk. Either way those at the Clinic and elsewhere can't believe Sky are the only team up to no good, i think they are just jealous of their effectiveness, put out because some of their guys have been caught and have the reputation while Sky don't. They don't want to see one team take over like has happened in the past, they don't want to see processions and complete dominance, they don't like boring Sky tactics strangling races. Sky's whiter than white attitude, massive gains made from guys like Froome mid-career supposedly possible only with 'marginal gains' at a time when there is such a spotlight on doping makes a mockery of the whole thing. When we should be entering a new phase of transparency the temerity of Sky to claim to be super clean, while they are the team who should be dragging things up to date and into the future through their advances makes people understandably dubious over the whole process. I'd love to believe Sky are advancing because they have figured a way to ride clean and beat a clean tour, i'd be more suprised if they have found a way to ride clean and beat a doped tour. I think it's more likely they are all still doping but marginal gains do work AND Sky have the best 'program'.
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#117 |
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Join Date: May 2007
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But what will the doubters say if Froome 'pops' in the Alps?
'Well he's just lost because he knew the UCI etc... were on to him.' It's the 'He's a Witch syndrome' Drop him in the water, and if he drowns, he's a Witch... If he doesn't drown, burn him alive! He can't seem to win either way. I still think that Chris is a freak of nature. That one incredible athlete that comes around once in a generation. The only person who really knows if he is doping is Chris himself... He says he isn't doping... I believe him. I just hope for him and the sport, that he is clean.... We need him to be clean. |
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#118 |
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Unless you believe every rider in The Tour is clean, that means Froome is not only beating dopers, but obliterating them
He hasn't so much created all the gains as others have handed them to him on a plate by poor tactics and poor preparation. Froome can't win - if he's better prepared and ends up winning, he's plagued by doping rumours. If he'd shown up to the Tour this year and not performed, then everyone would be saying Sky were rubbish. People are only suspicious because he's winning, and that type of cynical attitude is ridiculously tiresome - sometimes people are just good, and do just win, and, shock horror, it can be refreshing to actually have some faith in humanity and believe Froome is being honest when he says he's clean How many of the people who are accusing Froome of doping accused Wiggins of the same thing last year? Because there's no difference in the way both of them are winning the Tour - a couple of decent mountain stages (remember Froome rode away from Wiggins a few times last year so Wiggins had to get himself through as well, he didn't always have help), surviving the rest and good time trials. Simple formula, repeated this year, so why all the suspicion? |
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#119 |
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Join Date: May 2008
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He's bronze medalist in the Olympic TT.
He came second yesterday to the Olympic silver medalist. Distance wise, his time losses were about what you would expect. To me, there was nothing exceptionally staggering about his performance yesterday. In the 11 stages so far, he has had to ride hard on one of them. Sunday was an airchair ride as third or fourth wheel in team Movistar. It didn't matter that the rest of the team were falling off a mountain or generally wobbly legged. Perhaps the question should be turned around and asked why the oposition is putting up such a poor showing? Is it the fact the rest are not performing to the optium making a well prepared, fit and motivated Froome look better by comparision? |
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#120 |
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Perhaps some of the Sky is doping believers can explain why doping seemingly is useless in Classics, like Sky are? And why do the many ex-Sky riders still in the peloton not blow the gaff?
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#121 |
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Join Date: May 2007
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Cav had a great lead out..... And lost!
Kittel is a monster! |
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#122 |
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Cav had a great lead out..... And lost!
Kittel is a monster!
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#123 |
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Perhaps some of the Sky is doping believers can explain why doping seemingly is useless in Classics, like Sky are? And why do the many ex-Sky riders still in the peloton not blow the gaff?
PS... Look like Boasson Hagen is out. broken collar bone. :/ |
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#124 |
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Yes............no excuses today..............
![]() Indeed. Cav looks like he has some real competition in a straight shootout all of a sudden.Also Sagan drifts into 3rd looking relaxed after almost picking up points in the TT. He really is a remarkable rider. |
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#125 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Cav had a great lead out..... And lost!
Kittel is a monster! I said the other day he doesn't look himself and is either carrying a injury or just not trained as hard this year. It wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't win another stage this year, so one stage win would be a major shock and disspointment for him. I wonder if we've already seen the best from him? |
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