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The Pro Cycling Thread (Part 2)


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Old 21-09-2013, 09:12
John259
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Thanks for tying. I guess the start at least may be on the highlights.
You might see the roll-out and the start of racing at the end of the neutralised section but it's far from certain, and even if they are shown it's unlikely to be for more than a few seconds.
Seems odd though you don't show the whole race
It's just not done for normal stages even on the big three-week grand tours, even though the chess game on wheels of breakaways forming and failing until eventually one succeeds can be very interesting.
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Old 21-09-2013, 09:28
cmq2
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Thanks for tying. I guess the start at least may be on the highlights.

They had the full race on TV for the Olympic road race but that was a special one off I guess. Not a regular cycling viewer only watching as know location. Seems odd though you don't show the whole race, as for a channel like Eurosport is a good filler of daytime schedule.
Eurosport have no say in when the live race coverage starts. They rely on the race organiser appointed company (in this case Bay TV) to provide the live pictures, recorded summaries so far, and post stage interviews. ES just take the feed, add commentary and sometimes, studio chat. Most smaller races they commentate on from London or Paris studios and, unlike ITV4, have no-one on the ground at the start/finish.
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Old 21-09-2013, 11:55
swingaleg
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Some of the older commentators and ex-riders like Sean Kelly relate how in the not too distant past, up to the 80s or early 90s the 'patron' of the peloton (the unofficial leader of the pack, like Bernard Hinault) would spread the word amongst the riders to amble along for 3 or 4 hours and not start racing until live pictures came on stream.............they only wanted to put an effort in when they could be seen on TV
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Old 21-09-2013, 14:45
grassmarket
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Fantastic crowds all along the roadside today. Truly a cycling revolution has hit the home counties.
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Old 21-09-2013, 15:49
jack_kerouac
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Was at the untelevised start of the Tour where ITV / Eurosport decided not to cover live and only showed 2 minutes of 2 KOTM and 2 Sprints. so 2 fingers to people and marshalls who braved the pissing rain and winds.

But that appart, the Cynic in me has evaluated this.

Wiggins and Cav basically gave 2 fingers to last years tour.

so this year the organisers give the TT specialist Bradley Wiggins a TT for him. They also put it in his back yard to practice. He wins it and the Tour.

for the rest of the week its just a procession ...:yawn:

The lap of honour that Cav &Wiggo should have done las yer

The attacks and stage wins have been so so , but the generally to me The Tour died the day after the organisers gave Wiggins the victory.

But cycnic appart its great to see the youngsters coming thro and a bit of sprit in the UK cycling fans.
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Old 21-09-2013, 16:04
grassmarket
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Lucky for Cav there, the Cannondale rider ran into some rough cobbles just as he reached the line.

Yes, watched the replay and his bike was bouncing all over the shop.
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Old 21-09-2013, 16:06
grassmarket
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.

so this year the organisers give the TT specialist Bradley Wiggins a TT for him. They also put it in his back yard to practice. He wins it and the Tour.
And you don't think the Belgians, French, Spanish etc don't do the same with their tours?
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Old 21-09-2013, 16:26
swingaleg
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But practically every week long or longer stage race has a time trial

If time trials are included so Wiggo can win he'd have won every stage race since he started riding
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Old 21-09-2013, 16:32
Mystical123
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but the generally to me The Tour died the day after the organisers gave Wiggins the victory.
You do know he still had to actually win the time trial, right? Just because the course suited him didn't automatically guarantee he'd win it.

And like others have said, it's nothing different to any other race of a similar duration. Not every race can be as unpredictable as a Grand Tour!
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Old 21-09-2013, 17:41
tennisman
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(Maybe one for Grassmarket

What is the relationship between the Team GB squad in the TOB and the Sky Team?

Is the Sky Pro Cycling squad the UCI top level / tier team version of the Team GB squad?

And / or vice versa - is the Team GB squad the division 2 squad underneath the Sky Procycling squad involved in the 2nd tier UCI schedule?

Would a rider like Simon Yates seek top progress up from the lower into the higher squad?

The British Cycling website is a bit confusing talking about the Sky involvement but not really making it clear about the above relationship as far as distinct teams, squads and rosters..

Any help would be much appreciated.
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Old 21-09-2013, 17:46
grassmarket
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(Maybe one for Grassmarket

What is the relationship between the Team GB squad in the TOB and the Sky Team?

.
They both have the same sponsor, basically. Sky sponsors British Cycling the same way Aviva sponsors British Athletics. But Sky-The-Team doesn't have automatic first pick of all British riders coming out of the Junior or amateur system - most of the people on the track team ride for pro teams during the summer, but only one or two of them are on Sky's books.
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Old 21-09-2013, 17:53
tennisman
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They both have the same sponsor, basically. Sky sponsors British Cycling the same way Aviva sponsors British Athletics. But Sky-The-Team doesn't have automatic first pick of all British riders coming out of the Junior or amateur system.
Thanks Grassmarket.

So Sky is basically a completely different entity?

(Just found this about its' corporate structure and accounts - quite interesting);

http://inrng.com/2012/08/team-sky-budget-accounts/

So it's not an arm of the National Association?

But presumably, for events where nationalities are the main participants (Olympics, World Championships), Sky riders (Wiggins, Thomas etc) ,might still be picked by Team GB where they will ride as British riders with Sky sponsorship as opposed entering as Team Sky Procycling riders?

I.E. National Association picked teams for major championships and some tier 2 / 3 events - For everything else, especially the top UCI tier, independent private teams?
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Old 21-09-2013, 17:56
jack_kerouac
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And you don't think the Belgians, French, Spanish etc don't do the same with their tours?
which french and spanish riders back yard did they put the TT's in the Tour de France and the Veulta ?

I was just being devils advocate as many fellow cyclists here have been expressing the same tainted view of Wiggins Tour comeback.

Yes I do know he still has to win it ( patronising man) but putting it in his backyard gave him full advantage as Wiggo himself testified.

I suppose we are disappointed that a TOB with Big names has turned out to be a SKY procession.
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Old 21-09-2013, 18:13
Mystical123
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which french and spanish riders back yard did they put the TT's in the Tour de France and the Veulta ?

I was just being devils advocate as many fellow cyclists here have been expressing the same tainted view of Wiggins Tour comeback.

Yes I do know he still has to win it ( patronising man) but putting it in his backyard gave him full advantage as Wiggo himself testified.

I suppose we are disappointed that a TOB with Big names has turned out to be a SKY procession.
Don't assume I'm a man please.

Of course putting it in his backyard gives him an advantage, same way putting a Grand Prix in a F1 driver's home country gives him an advantage, same way having the Olympics in London boosted the British team's performance, same way hosting a World Cup tends to do the same. By your logic we should never have any race anywhere near where any of the competitors live or come from. Home advantage applies to almost every sportsperson at some point in their career.


And don't assume that everyone agrees with you - I certainly don't subscribe to your 'we' - I've actually rather enjoyed the Tour of Britain this year. Although clearly I've been watching a different race - last I checked, Sky weren't winning the point competition or the King of the Mountains, and hadn't won most of the stages. Just because Wiggins will win overall doesn't make it a Sky procession, unless you fixate on the overall result and ignore the other facets, of course.

Maybe you should rewatch some of the multiple stage finishes, breakaways etc that Wiggins wasn't involved in, and give some of those riders a bit of credit rather than fixating on Wiggins....
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Old 21-09-2013, 18:18
grassmarket
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which french and spanish riders back yard did they put the TT's in the Tour de France and the Veulta ?.
We were talking about this during the Vuelta. This year's Vuelta had lots of mountain finishes and few sprint stages. Why? Well, perhaps because Spain has lots of mountain climbers but no internationally recognised sprinters. Everyone knows that back in the day the Giro would be set up for Pantani to win it. And so on.
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Old 21-09-2013, 18:29
jack_kerouac
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Don't assume I'm a man please.

Of course putting it in his backyard gives him an advantage, same way putting a Grand Prix in a F1 driver's home country gives him an advantage, same way having the Olympics in London boosted the British team's performance, same way hosting a World Cup tends to do the same. By your logic we should never have any race anywhere near where any of the competitors live or come from. Home advantage applies to almost every sportsperson at some point in their career.


And don't assume that everyone agrees with you - I certainly don't subscribe to your 'we' - I've actually rather enjoyed the Tour of Britain this year. Although clearly I've been watching a different race - last I checked, Sky weren't winning the point competition or the King of the Mountains, and hadn't won most of the stages. Just because Wiggins will win overall doesn't make it a Sky procession, unless you fixate on the overall result and ignore the other facets, of course.

Maybe you should rewatch some of the multiple stage finishes, breakaways etc that Wiggins wasn't involved in, and give some of those riders a bit of credit rather than fixating on Wiggins....
Love it. Didnt disagree with the patronising bit LOL.

Dont assume the "we" was your self obsesced "you".
I was referring to my fellow cyclists.

My apologies for having another comment in what seems to be "Your " cycling thread.

We dont all live in the fine detail and 100% accurate world you appear to live in .

Just want to enjoy a race and it seems like Wiggins is being "Sedan Chaired " again to a Tour vicrory.

But I accept that we will disagree.
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Old 21-09-2013, 18:31
jack_kerouac
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We were talking about this during the Vuelta. This year's Vuelta had lots of mountain finishes and few sprint stages. Why? Well, perhaps because Spain has lots of mountain climbers but no internationally recognised sprinters. Everyone knows that back in the day the Giro would be set up for Pantani to win it. And so on.
Thanks for tt. It ws something that I never considered was going on in the desperate to be clean sport.

But I suppose they will all play to thier international advantages.

Ta
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Old 21-09-2013, 21:46
Mystical123
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Love it. Didnt disagree with the patronising bit LOL.

Dont assume the "we" was your self obsesced "you".
I was referring to my fellow cyclists.

My apologies for having another comment in what seems to be "Your " cycling thread.

We dont all live in the fine detail and 100% accurate world you appear to live in .

Just want to enjoy a race and it seems like Wiggins is being "Sedan Chaired " again to a Tour vicrory.

But I accept that we will disagree.
I don't think stating what I believe to be fact, logic and common sense is patronising, but obviously it's your prerogative to interpret it as you wish. I note you didn't disagree with my logic about home advantage.

And I don't appreciate you twisting my post to make me seem as if I was speaking for everyone, when I was very explicitly giving my opinion (hence the 'I for one'). You have no reason to call me self-obsessed, and if you continue to break the forum rules with such insults I will report you.

I was merely trying to point out that it's very easy to enjoy a race, in my opinion, if you take it as a whole and enjoy all the riders' contributions and achievements rather than fixating on Wiggins. It's not all about who wins, whether that be in the overall standings or the numerous other competitions that also make up this Tour and all the others. I believe you are making your own viewing unenjoyable by focusing solely on Wiggins at the expense of the bigger picture.
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Old 21-09-2013, 22:51
jcafcw
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The problem with the Tour of Britain is that there are very few places for a mountain top finish which would fit in with the transfers.

So in effect if you have a time trial then it is very hard for any other result than a Bradley Wiggins win.

We are not geographically built to have a race with major time differences.
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Old 21-09-2013, 23:03
swingaleg
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The problem with the Tour of Britain is that there are very few places for a mountain top finish which would fit in with the transfers.

So in effect if you have a time trial then it is very hard for any other result than a Bradley Wiggins win.

We are not geographically built to have a race with major time differences.
And I think there would be a problem with a long time trial, say 40K as this would probably mean closing a main road for 6 hours or something which might not be very popular..........

Having a 10K one in a closed area like a safari park entails much less disruption to normal life and business

So I think they could only ever have short time trials which mitigate against big time gaps
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Old 21-09-2013, 23:20
jcafcw
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Of course they could have a time trail up the Hayter mountain. That would put the cat amongst the pigeons.
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Old 22-09-2013, 07:59
swingaleg
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Just occurred to me that the ToB doesn't finish until Sunday which is also the opening day of the World Champs with the Team Time Trial for professional teams

Presumably Brad, Stannard, Edmondson and Hayman at least would have been in the Sky team if weren't riding the ToB

I wonder what Sky think about having to put out a weakened team in the World Champs ?
Obviously it tells you how seriously they're taking it - I'm sure plenty of other teams would rather win a mid-ranking stage race in their home country than this World Title.

Just looking at the Start List and Sky are not entered at all.........

I think there are only 14 World Tour teams and 10 lower division teams
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Old 22-09-2013, 14:08
grassmarket
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The BBC had highlights of the women's team TT from earlier this morning - won by Specialised Lulu Lemon, who included one British rider, Katie Colclough. 2nd Rabobank 3rd Orica. Unfortunatley Wiggle Honda, which is based around the British Track Team were only 5th.
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Old 22-09-2013, 14:38
cmq2
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Down to the sharp end of the TTT. At 3.5min intervals:

Radioshack
Katusha
Movistar
Sky
OGE
BMC
Omega Pharma
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Old 22-09-2013, 14:42
swingaleg
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When I looked at the start list for the TTT this morning there were only 24 teams listed.................now there are 35

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