What does anyone else here think of us loaning players to Liverpool (Moses) and possibly Arsenal (Ba)? I don't really think we should ever be helping those clubs out with loan players.
Chelsea Supporters Thread (Part 4)
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Definitely not Ba to Arsenal. Without a few players I'd expect Liverpool to - at least - run them very close this year, so, not sure about lending Moses either.
Not sure why we're bothering with a loan...it's not like he'll ever play for us again.
Palace sniffing around Chalobah - finally! Surprised the promoted clubs haven't come in for him sooner.
Not sure why we're bothering with a loan...it's not like he'll ever play for us again.
Palace sniffing around Chalobah - finally! Surprised the promoted clubs haven't come in for him sooner.
Originally Posted by carefree_blue:
“Do you honestly think Willian and Falcao are worth the same transfer fee? Falcao's a great player, the same can't be said of Willian - he's ok but we've already got better.”
“Do you honestly think Willian and Falcao are worth the same transfer fee? Falcao's a great player, the same can't be said of Willian - he's ok but we've already got better.”
But you dont know what is going on in with regards other players.
We might have been or still looking at Mata going and a if so it does make sense, We knew the player was fit thanks to our good mates at Spurs so we knew he would pass any medical and thanks to our owner it was a quite a easy transfer to arrange. Wages also would have been quite reasonable. Its not the transfer we needed 100% but it has enough merits to have made it worthwhile.
Falco is still unproven to me and more so with the wages he would have wanted. We have gone done the route of "I want that one" with players in the past and not looked at what it would it would cost and its failed. We have currently have well over 50 million pound invested in our strike force at the weekly cost of how much? No matter lets chuck another 50/60/m at the problem, We have been doing that for 10 years now and its lead us to today's issues. Sooner or later we have to say stop the maddess and work with what he have. Unless the transfer is ensured to be as sucessful as any transfer can be, We should back off until one presents it self.
Ba is being linked with Roma and Newcastle...if he's available, other clubs will want him. There's plenty of teams we could send him to other than Arsenal. Loan is best for him incase we need a recall in January.
As for Moses....he's never going to play for us when we have so many other players in his position. He done enough last year to justify a £10m valuation, so, if Liverpool wanted him, they should have bought him outright. If they didn't want to do that, wait a while and see if anyone else does. Not as if there are a shortage of teams looking to panic-buy.
We've loaned Sam Hutchinson to Vitesse. They now have more of our players than we do. (excluding AM, of course)
As for Moses....he's never going to play for us when we have so many other players in his position. He done enough last year to justify a £10m valuation, so, if Liverpool wanted him, they should have bought him outright. If they didn't want to do that, wait a while and see if anyone else does. Not as if there are a shortage of teams looking to panic-buy.
We've loaned Sam Hutchinson to Vitesse. They now have more of our players than we do. (excluding AM, of course)
Originally Posted by carefree_blue:
“Falcao was £46m in transfer fee, less than what we paid for Willian and Schurrle combined, a couple of players we didn't need. If spending £30m on Willian isn't chucking money around then i don't know what is!”
“Falcao was £46m in transfer fee, less than what we paid for Willian and Schurrle combined, a couple of players we didn't need. If spending £30m on Willian isn't chucking money around then i don't know what is!”
I agree. I find it baffling that we signed another attacking midfield player when we were desperate for a quality striker and an expreienced defensive midfield player.
In my opinion, to make matters worse, we even overpaid to get hold of Willian. Looking at his CV it's not that impressive, and £30m is more than we paid for either Mata or Oscar.
We already had De Bruyne back, we had signed Schurrie and Moses was good enough as cover on the right or left.
It's great to have all these alternatives, but not if we're going to neglect other positions that should have been the priorities for strengthening.
Now we're loaning out players to our rivals. What's the betting that Demba Ba ends up getting 20+ goals for Arsenal, and Moses has a terrific season at Liverpool ?
If it was not Ba or Moses, They would find players of the same standard elsewhere.
We are paying players that we are not going to use. We talk about wanting to include our younger players but those two players would take 2 spots the younger players could have. You can only have a certain number of players and I think having 2 players training and learning from our senior players would be better then two players who are just taking part for the sake of it
Wages also come into it, We have a contract to pay them a certain level, We want the loan club to pay as much as those wages as possible (plus a loan fee) now if Liverpool and Arsenal are willing to pay more of the wages and a bigger fee surely it makes more sense for them to go to those clubs, Also if they are to be sold in the future, They are more willing to go to clubs like Arsenal then a Newcastle and if the loan club does not wish to buy them we want them in the biggest shop window as possible.
Why as fans do we worry what other teams are doing with regards to players? I dont care if Arsenal spend 100m on Messi or Peter Crouch. Thats their business, If a player is not of use to Chelsea wearing a blue shirt then I would rather they at least have a value to us in money terms.
We are paying players that we are not going to use. We talk about wanting to include our younger players but those two players would take 2 spots the younger players could have. You can only have a certain number of players and I think having 2 players training and learning from our senior players would be better then two players who are just taking part for the sake of it
Wages also come into it, We have a contract to pay them a certain level, We want the loan club to pay as much as those wages as possible (plus a loan fee) now if Liverpool and Arsenal are willing to pay more of the wages and a bigger fee surely it makes more sense for them to go to those clubs, Also if they are to be sold in the future, They are more willing to go to clubs like Arsenal then a Newcastle and if the loan club does not wish to buy them we want them in the biggest shop window as possible.
Why as fans do we worry what other teams are doing with regards to players? I dont care if Arsenal spend 100m on Messi or Peter Crouch. Thats their business, If a player is not of use to Chelsea wearing a blue shirt then I would rather they at least have a value to us in money terms.
^
I can't argue with that, it all makes perfect sense. But it does make you wonder why they buy these players in the first place, if they are surplus to requirements after a season. They were both adequate as cover players when we brought them in, and they still are. If this is the start of going for quality rather than quantity, then maybe it's a good thing.
We have far too many players on our books, I bet even the most avid Chelsea supporter would have trouble naming them all.
I can't argue with that, it all makes perfect sense. But it does make you wonder why they buy these players in the first place, if they are surplus to requirements after a season. They were both adequate as cover players when we brought them in, and they still are. If this is the start of going for quality rather than quantity, then maybe it's a good thing.
We have far too many players on our books, I bet even the most avid Chelsea supporter would have trouble naming them all.
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“^
I can't argue with that, it all makes perfect sense. But it does make you wonder why they buy these players in the first place, if they are surplus to requirements after a season. They were both adequate as cover players when we brought them in, and they still are. If this is the start of going for quality rather than quantity, then maybe it's a good thing.
We have far too many players on our books, I bet even the most avid Chelsea supporter would have trouble naming them all.”
“^
I can't argue with that, it all makes perfect sense. But it does make you wonder why they buy these players in the first place, if they are surplus to requirements after a season. They were both adequate as cover players when we brought them in, and they still are. If this is the start of going for quality rather than quantity, then maybe it's a good thing.
We have far too many players on our books, I bet even the most avid Chelsea supporter would have trouble naming them all.
”
We have too many players, but in one position.
Unfortunately they are all quality. I rate Moses highly and am sad to see him go.
However, the madness was signing william and schurrle. I still find it unbelievable.
Oscar, mata and hazard struggle to get into the same team anyway, so why we needed the above two bench warmers is beyond me.
After the last game, Lukaku looks raw and possibly we need to keep Ba as a backup. Is suddenly eto'o our 1st choice striker?
Originally Posted by codeblue:
“We have too many players, but in one position.
Unfortunately they are all quality. I rate Moses highly and am sad to see him go.
However, the madness was signing william and schurrle. I still find it unbelievable.
Oscar, mata and hazard struggle to get into the same team anyway, so why we needed the above two bench warmers is beyond me.
After the last game, Lukaku looks raw and possibly we need to keep Ba as a backup. Is suddenly eto'o our 1st choice striker?”
“We have too many players, but in one position.
Unfortunately they are all quality. I rate Moses highly and am sad to see him go.
However, the madness was signing william and schurrle. I still find it unbelievable.
Oscar, mata and hazard struggle to get into the same team anyway, so why we needed the above two bench warmers is beyond me.
After the last game, Lukaku looks raw and possibly we need to keep Ba as a backup. Is suddenly eto'o our 1st choice striker?”
I could just about understand signing Schurrie. At only 22, and as a winger/striker he has a lot of potential.
But Willian was a strange signing, especially at £30m. He's not a prolific goal scorer, and I'll be surprised if he's consistent enough to displace Mata, Hazard or Oscar, not to mention De Bruyne and Schurrie. I'm looking foward to seeing him play, on his day he's an exciting player, but he's still a luxury we didn't really need.
Be careful what you wish for
Chelsea fans on the whole wished for Jose back, When your wish is granted there is always a cost and I think Mata going might be the cost.
Hazzard and Oscar are very strong players who tackle and track back etc, Mata is not one of those players (or is unwilling to do that). Do I want to see him go? No of course not but its the same with Moses and Ba, If Jose is not going to use him I dont see the point of him being at the club.
Chelsea fans on the whole wished for Jose back, When your wish is granted there is always a cost and I think Mata going might be the cost.
Hazzard and Oscar are very strong players who tackle and track back etc, Mata is not one of those players (or is unwilling to do that). Do I want to see him go? No of course not but its the same with Moses and Ba, If Jose is not going to use him I dont see the point of him being at the club.
It would certainly be controversial to get rid of Mata. Mourinho would be putting a hell of a lot of pressure on himself. Our player of the season for the past two years, his goals/assists record has been outstanding. Yes, the fans love Mourinho, but after a decision like that Jose would have to prove himself right.
Ps..I'm not so sure Mata was much different to Hazard last season ?...and he's not really had a chance to show he's prepared to tackle back since Mourinho arrived.
Ps..I'm not so sure Mata was much different to Hazard last season ?...and he's not really had a chance to show he's prepared to tackle back since Mourinho arrived.
Dont see how he could or could not prove himself right unless we win the title.
All you can do is trust the manager. If this was a young manager i would question it, But I think we have to trust someone as experenced as Jose and track record of winning things
If he stays and dont play I dont see how it affects where we end up at the end of the season
All you can do is trust the manager. If this was a young manager i would question it, But I think we have to trust someone as experenced as Jose and track record of winning things
If he stays and dont play I dont see how it affects where we end up at the end of the season
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“It would certainly be controversial to get rid of Mata. Mourinho would be putting a hell of a lot of pressure on himself. Our player of the season for the past two years, his goals/assists record has been outstanding. Yes, the fans love Mourinho, but after a decision like that Jose would have to prove himself right.
Ps..I'm not so sure Mata was much different to Hazard last season ?...and he's not really had a chance to show he's prepared to tackle back since Mourinho arrived.”
“It would certainly be controversial to get rid of Mata. Mourinho would be putting a hell of a lot of pressure on himself. Our player of the season for the past two years, his goals/assists record has been outstanding. Yes, the fans love Mourinho, but after a decision like that Jose would have to prove himself right.
Ps..I'm not so sure Mata was much different to Hazard last season ?...and he's not really had a chance to show he's prepared to tackle back since Mourinho arrived.”
But if its not part of your natural game sooner or later you going to revert to your natural game. It was the same with Joey Cole. Sooner or later your instincts kick in. Its a good thing BUT with a strict manager like Jose it can cost you.
I just get the impression with Mata it would take alot of his natural game away from him and thats when you start getting unhappy and unsettled players. Rather we did not get to that stage no matter how great of a player there are
Originally Posted by The_don1:
“Dont see how he could or could not prove himself right unless we win the title.
All you can do is trust the manager. If this was a young manager i would question it, But I think we have to trust someone as experenced as Jose and track record of winning things
If he stays and dont play I dont see how it affects where we end up at the end of the season”
“Dont see how he could or could not prove himself right unless we win the title.
All you can do is trust the manager. If this was a young manager i would question it, But I think we have to trust someone as experenced as Jose and track record of winning things
If he stays and dont play I dont see how it affects where we end up at the end of the season”
Well, if he stays, he'll play. I can't see Jose being so stubborn to prove himself right that he would leave out a 20 goal player when we're struggling to score.
Look at the quality of clubs that are interested in signing Mata, if we have a mediocre season and Mata is sold, Mourinho will have made a rod for his own back.
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“Well, if he stays, he'll play. I can't see Jose being so stubborn to prove himself right that he would leave out a 20 goal player when we're struggling to score.
Look at the quality of clubs that are interested in signing Mata, if we have a mediocre season and Mata is sold, Mourinho will have made a rod for his own back.”
“Well, if he stays, he'll play. I can't see Jose being so stubborn to prove himself right that he would leave out a 20 goal player when we're struggling to score.
Look at the quality of clubs that are interested in signing Mata, if we have a mediocre season and Mata is sold, Mourinho will have made a rod for his own back.”
He has not played so far.
Jose not stubborn? really?
Jose is not going to change his ways for Mata, Its not in his DNA. Jose did not change his ways from pressure to play players at Real because they was having a medicore season (and thats what caused him to move).
We had a medicore season last season and he was in the team
And if we are having a medicore season then we have the wrong manager and Mata playing or not playing wont make a difference
Utd are really the club of any note that are after Mata and thats because they really need a player like him. If Real or Barca was after him I would agree but ok they "big" clubs but they only after him because he is for sale. Its not like they have made him their number one target.
Dont get me wrong I think he a fantastic talent and if I was manager I would set my team around him but i am not the manager (thank the lord) Jose is and although I had my doubts about him and him coming back I do trust his judgement
Falcao and Cavani were both available this window, yet we signed neither so dont tell me there was no strikers available in this window as their definitely was. Although its true we dont know the full details behind those transfers and we were linked heavily with them so the chances are we were bidding for them(but for whatever reason we never got them).
I think the argument is that £50m spent on Willian and Schrulle would have been better spent on £50m on a striker. Which is a very valid argument IMO.
Mata to PSG is getting a lot of talk at the moment, i would be very sad to see him go, and tbh i would only sell him for £40m+. Lets see what happens.
Ba to Arsenal would be annoying, i think Ozil is a really good signing for them, i really like Ozil and rate him highly - honestly one of the best midfielders in the world, but as we already have Mata Oscar and Hazard we dont need him.
I would rather Ba went to West Ham or Newcastle so he cant do too much damage. Moses to Liverpool is fair enough, i still dont think Liverpool are real title contenders, despite their decent start. They will have done well if they get top 4 though(still a big ask with Spurs, Arsenal, us, City and Utd though)
I think the argument is that £50m spent on Willian and Schrulle would have been better spent on £50m on a striker. Which is a very valid argument IMO.
Mata to PSG is getting a lot of talk at the moment, i would be very sad to see him go, and tbh i would only sell him for £40m+. Lets see what happens.
Ba to Arsenal would be annoying, i think Ozil is a really good signing for them, i really like Ozil and rate him highly - honestly one of the best midfielders in the world, but as we already have Mata Oscar and Hazard we dont need him.
I would rather Ba went to West Ham or Newcastle so he cant do too much damage. Moses to Liverpool is fair enough, i still dont think Liverpool are real title contenders, despite their decent start. They will have done well if they get top 4 though(still a big ask with Spurs, Arsenal, us, City and Utd though)
I don't want Mata to leave but if it has to happen I don't want it to be to another Premiership team.
If he doesn't go in this window and Jose doesn't play him much, then I wouldn't be surprised if he asks for a move in the January window. His World Cup place would be in danger if he's not getting regular games.
If he doesn't go in this window and Jose doesn't play him much, then I wouldn't be surprised if he asks for a move in the January window. His World Cup place would be in danger if he's not getting regular games.
Originally Posted by J B Oddsocks:
“I don't want Mata to leave but if it has to happen I don't want it to be to another Premiership team.
If he doesn't go in this window and Jose doesn't play him much, then I wouldn't be surprised if he asks for a move in the January window. His World Cup place would be in danger if he's not getting regular games.”
“I don't want Mata to leave but if it has to happen I don't want it to be to another Premiership team.
If he doesn't go in this window and Jose doesn't play him much, then I wouldn't be surprised if he asks for a move in the January window. His World Cup place would be in danger if he's not getting regular games.”
This, only wouldn't mind another premiership team if that is what he wanted. He's been very good for us and if he doesn't fit anymore,for whatever reason, hopefully we'll act in his best interests and not jeopardize his place in the Spain squad.
Originally Posted by dend:
“Falcao and Cavani were both available this window, yet we signed neither so dont tell me there was no strikers available in this window as their definitely was. Although its true we dont know the full details behind those transfers and we were linked heavily with them so the chances are we were bidding for them(but for whatever reason we never got them).
I think the argument is that £50m spent on Willian and Schrulle would have been better spent on £50m on a striker. Which is a very valid argument IMO.
Mata to PSG is getting a lot of talk at the moment, i would be very sad to see him go, and tbh i would only sell him for £40m+. Lets see what happens.
Ba to Arsenal would be annoying, i think Ozil is a really good signing for them, i really like Ozil and rate him highly - honestly one of the best midfielders in the world, but as we already have Mata Oscar and Hazard we dont need him.
I would rather Ba went to West Ham or Newcastle so he cant do too much damage. Moses to Liverpool is fair enough, i still dont think Liverpool are real title contenders, despite their decent start. They will have done well if they get top 4 though(still a big ask with Spurs, Arsenal, us, City and Utd though)”
“Falcao and Cavani were both available this window, yet we signed neither so dont tell me there was no strikers available in this window as their definitely was. Although its true we dont know the full details behind those transfers and we were linked heavily with them so the chances are we were bidding for them(but for whatever reason we never got them).
I think the argument is that £50m spent on Willian and Schrulle would have been better spent on £50m on a striker. Which is a very valid argument IMO.
Mata to PSG is getting a lot of talk at the moment, i would be very sad to see him go, and tbh i would only sell him for £40m+. Lets see what happens.
Ba to Arsenal would be annoying, i think Ozil is a really good signing for them, i really like Ozil and rate him highly - honestly one of the best midfielders in the world, but as we already have Mata Oscar and Hazard we dont need him.
I would rather Ba went to West Ham or Newcastle so he cant do too much damage. Moses to Liverpool is fair enough, i still dont think Liverpool are real title contenders, despite their decent start. They will have done well if they get top 4 though(still a big ask with Spurs, Arsenal, us, City and Utd though)”
I think we may have done some good business getting Eto'o on purely wages and a short term contract. The market and prices players are going for this year are unsustainable and we have a squad good enough to do well under Jose already without joining in the madness. I agree with you on the rest though. I think Ba will do well if he gets a good run in a team. Unfortunately that won't be with us, but I wouldn't begrudge him success at Arsenal.
Rumours are now that Ba is staying put and Lukaku is being loaned to Everton.... You do wonder sometimes about who is making the transfer decisions at the Bridge.. it certainly isnt Jose.
Originally Posted by dend:
“Rumours are now that Ba is staying put and Lukaku is being loaned to Everton.... You do wonder sometimes about who is making the transfer decisions at the Bridge.. it certainly isnt Jose.”
“Rumours are now that Ba is staying put and Lukaku is being loaned to Everton.... You do wonder sometimes about who is making the transfer decisions at the Bridge.. it certainly isnt Jose.”
That would ruin my evening. I really want Lukaku to break through with us this season.
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