Not all of us did. I didn't want him back as i said on here at the time, but the problem was a lack of viable choices. I'm prepared to give him a chance, but can't say i've been impressed so far.

Bringing Mikel on when we needed a goal was a strange sub, I have to say.

I think that was just damage limitation, Van Ginkel wasn't having the best of games and he was on a yellow card.

I thought the panel at the end must have read this thread, they echoed most of the things we've been saying.
Jamie Carragher was right in my opinion when he said he couldn't understand why we were so desperate to change the way we've always played.
At our best, we played winning football, with a terrific blend of skill and power. Now we want to copy Barcelona..why ? Barcelona won't be able to maintain their superiority playing that style, they currently have a unique group of players, including Messi, one of the greatest the game has ever seen. Let's see if they can replicate that when the time comes for their current team to hang up their boots.

We have to give it time, but currently we don't look anything like a Mourinho team. The great man himself has to take some of the blame for that, he was there throughout the transfer window so some of the bizarre decisions must be down to him.
It's too late to do much about it now, the second half performance tonight was dreadful but I don't think we'll play as bad as that very often. But we're short of a genuine striker, and will just have to make the best of it until January at least. It's going to be a long season.

That was pretty poor tonight. An unbalanced squad is going to haunt us. We have added 3 midfield players that just weren't needed. Still time to turn it around thankfully.

We looked poor in defence and attack which is unusual. Not sure why the media is focusing on Mata since he hasn't looked right whenever he's played for us this season. Hope Jose can get rid of the disjointed, nervous, sloppiness before the weekend.
I'm also positive Lukaku will start scoring with Everton soon so that's another stick we've thrown out there to beat ourselves up with later.

For the league games at least (which should be our priority) I'd like to see a much more settled side, this constant rotation we're doing to accommodate all the midfielders/forwards in particular is hampering us. There's such a thing as having too many options. We keep chopping and changing to try and keep everyone happy, but it's to the detriment of the team.

It was always going to be a case of "too many cooks".

Very predictable. Willian, Schurle, KDB, Van Ginkle added to an already full midfield was madness.

It's ridiculous to expect to find our best team when you're changing 4 or 5 players in every match. United play a settled side and continue to win stuff regularly.....why do we (and Man City) insist on rotating for every bloody match?

Incidentally, de Bruyne and Oscar are the only 2 attacking players who have impressed, and yet one of them has hardly been seen at all.


Agree with Willian and Schurrle, but there was plenty of room for the other 2 to come in.


Typo?

^ I agree about De Bruyne being the only one that's impressed other than Oscar. Hazard's played more than any of them, but has been off the boil. I'd bench him for the time being.

This is the team i'd like to see against Fulham, though it won't happen.

Cech
Azpi - Cahill - Terry - Cole
Ramires - Luiz
Oscar - Mata - De Bruyne
Eto'o

This is a real possibility.
We lose up coming games to Spurs and Man City.
Could the unthinkable happen this early with either Jose realising he made a mistake coming back, or RM doing what he does best?

I'd like to see

Cech

Azpilicueta
Cahill
Terry
Bertrand - Cole needs a rest.

Luiz / Mikel
Oscar

De Bruyne
Mata
Schurrle

Eto'o

Give Hazard time on the bench because he has massively underperformed so far. I don't understand Hazard, he has everything needed to take on players but all he does is run, come inside, then play a 5 yard pass. He's not making the most of his ability.

I don't want to see Luiz in defense anymore, i can't stand his style. He never contains, he just rushes into a tackle, it's reckless. And if he isn't doing that he is charging up field all the time leaving gaps all over the place. He's a great footballer but i think he is an awful CB.

Completey agree with this, Hazard was god awful last night and its hard to understand what hes thinking. He never even tried to run past a man, he received the ball, rolled it slightly then more often than not played a 5 yard back to midfield or out wide to the overlapping fullback who was then expected to do something special like deliver a fantastic cross or beat the defender, when surely that should be Hazards job? Dont get me wrong overlapping fullbacks is great but time after time they were getting the ball from our "creative" players and relying on the fullback to do something special.

Luiz in defence has always looked suspect really, either a red card or a lapse in concentration leading to a goal. I agree i think he looks much more solid in midfield, i still think his best position is there but there isnt any sign he will be played there. The only reason rafa played him there was because we were very short of players in CM at the time, but once they returned he was back to CB.

I think Cole has been getting forward more than I've seen him do for a long time. Unfortunately, it seems to be taking it out of his defensive performances and he's had very little help/cover from whoever is playing in front of him on that day. Hazard could still be injured, he's looked poor since the international break. I'm not sure Mata is fit either as the couple of times he's played he's been very quiet. Lampard looked a bit tired. Eto'o's (??) touch was poor and he was a bit off the pace, willing enough though to his credit. This would be the perfect time to refresh the deck (except for Eto'o who should get at least the next 5 match starts).

I cant see Jose coming under pressure any time soon, give him a chance. Even RA will surely keep with Jose for some time to come. We are running out of options now and there really is a lack of alternatives. Abram might still treasure Pep but he will be at Bayern for a while yet.

I think we are getting ahead of ourselves abit, it is not panic stations at the club yet, even if we have lost 2 in a row(and not against top top sides). The CL loss isnt a big deal it just makes it harder for us to qualify, but we have more than enough time to resolve the problem and it isnt the hardest of groups. 2nd should be no problem for us at the very least.

I was angry about the result last night but today ive calmed down and chalked it off as a bad night. The only annoying thing is that we are just out of the summer transfer window but we havent progressed as a team since last season really, we had all summer to sort some of our problems but our transfer dealings have done nothing and perhaps even added to our problems by having 6 bloody attacking midfielders now.

The Willian signing is still boggling my mind and i cant fathom why we have signed him. Last night he diddnt really add anything we diddnt already have. All the other signings were probably decent deals. The only thing i can think of is we did it just so Spurs diddnt get him, but that in itself is just stupid. Would Abram do such a thing? Quite possibly when he has so much money.

I find it very hard to believe we only signed him to stop Spurs doing it, but if that was the logic behind it then it's a stupid move. Spurs wouldn't even have been a concern for us this season if we'd actually invested our summer transfer kitty in sorting out our problem positions.

Again, it just shows how we have not strengthened our key areas. There is hardly any movement from the middle - all our play seems to come from our fullbacks. Van Ginkel is still a work in progress. Ramires' first touch still haunts me. Mikel is Mikel and Lamps can't play every game and he has periods where he goes missing. Finally we have Essien who hasn't even featured in any of our games yet.

If Mourinho's not going to put Luiz in midfield (unlikely, I know) then I'd give Essien a chance.

Chalobah joining Nottm Forest on loan 'til January.

Exactly. The only ray of light I can see is that we shouldn't be any worse than last season. We have an extra striker, a few extra attacking midfield players, and decent cover for Cech In goal. But how different it could have been if we had strengthened in the key areas.

I do find it hard to understand Jose's thinking during the summer. Against United he started without a recognised striker, which shows he had little confidence in Torres or Ba from the start. It wasn't a great surprise to see Rooney stay at Utd, so did he believe Eto'o will solve the problem ? It seem a massive gamble to me, there weren't many other top clubs chasing after Eto'o and his agent was touting around for offers.

I like Ramires, I think we missed him last night. But he's a workhorse, someone who will run all day and occasionally come up with an important goal. He would be fine playing alongside an experienced holding player. Mikel should have been that player, but it's just not worked out for him.
Lampard does his best, but he's a square peg in a round hole playing in front of the back four. We don't know about Essien yet, but his injuries looked to have taken their toll last time he appeared for us.
Van Ginkel looked out of his depth, he appears more of a candidate to go on loan than some of the others who have been shipped out.
Our best bet might be to move Luiz up as we have been saying for years. It worked on a few occasions last season, but would he want to play in that role. He's established in the Brazilian team as a CB now, wouldn't it jeopardise his chances in a World Cup year ?

Oh well, it should be interesting.

He'll never be the brilliant player he once was, but is still worth a chance in that DM position in the short term. I don't see any better options at the moment really if we're not going to move Luiz forward. He played 34 times for Real Madrid last season so fitness can't be that much of an issue.



I think we actually have to do what's best for us. If Luiz spits his dummy out because he only wants to play CB, then so be it. Let him leave. I like Luiz, but he's proved on too many occasions he's not disciplined enough to play there, so there's no point in persisting with it just to keep him happy.

That's where I disagree with you. I think Luiz has the potential to become one of the worlds great CB's. If he doesn't want to play in a DM position, we may have to live for a while with his lapses in concentration.
Watching him for Brazil, he rarely puts a foot wrong. For us, his surging runs foward are a joy to watch. I would hate to force him out because we have failed to invest in a quality holding player. But I accept, it's a difficult one.

How long are you prepared to give Luiz to fulfill that potential though? He turns 27 next april. The likes of Terry, Carvalho, and Gallas were much better CB's at that age. Luiz is a great player, but just not in that position.

Hopefully Josh can get a loan too.

Yeah, I don't really know what Jose was thinking either at our game away to Man U. Eto'o is marginally better than Torres but he was only ever going to be a short term fix.

I like Ramires too. He's always a big game player but his first touch cost us a goal at Goodison Park. I just don't understand how a Brazilian CM can have such a poor first touch at this level? But yeah, aside from that you can't fault his commitment to the club. Even when he's having an off day he still contributes to the team any way he can. In the EL final, he was having a really bad game; fouls everywhere. But I think it was him who won the corner by pressing the opposition. (Can't remember who it was exactly - my memory is awful )

I'm in the camp where I think Luiz is a great CB. It's true, Luiz was leaving gaps in defence on Wednesday night but can you blame him? Our CM pair don't create enough. More often than not, the ball goes out to Cole or Ivan and they whip in a cross which no-one receives because we only have one of Ba/Torres/Eto'o to attack the ball. That's why we always see Luiz charging forward because there is still a tenuous link from midfield to attack.When we needed to find a equaliser, he seemed like the only one who displayed a sense of emergency. He's always looking to move the ball forward (something our CM pair should be doing), especially when we're a goal down. Although, I thought Lamps had one of his better games and Mikel was suprisingly more adventurous in his passing but we still lack that edge in midfield. Luiz can be a disciplined player - he just wants to see us win and he'll do anything to achieve that. The more I seem him, the more I love him - he's definitely future captain material.

His first league start under Mourinho and it took him only 7 minutess to roam forward and show why he'll never be a top CB. We lose the ball - can't remember if it was him - near their corner flag, they countered, Cole saved us from conceding, the ball's played forward, and Luiz is casually strolling back over halfway line......not a care in the world.
Either Jose didn't lay into him about it or he just ignored him.......he was still doing it Wednesday.


Yes. Entirely.
His roaming forward is a problem because he hardly ever gives a shit when he loses the ball. He's shown that on far too many occasions in his 3 years here. The only times he even comes close to winning the ball back is by committing one of those ridiculous fouls he is far too fond of. Cahill and Terry both carry the ball forward without giving away chance after chance. They care when they lose it, too.


Believe it or not, I like the guy too. I really wish he were as good as we need him to be, but he really isn't. When you have a 26yo defender who has been here for 3 years and you're still mentioning potential and defending him against his critics by praising his attacking play instead of his defensive ability, it's pretty clear he's really not that good.

Luiz is closest to Carvalho in terms of style, and I agree, he's not at that level yet. Carvalho was one of the best I've seen, he was so "street smart" and his reading of the game was exceptional.
Having said that, I don't think Luiz is too far behind. He's better than any of those you mention going foward. His distribution can be sublime, he's great at dead-ball kicks and his enthusiasm is second to none.
If he can just improve his concentration and reading of the game we'll have a genuine world class player on our hands. He would still be one of my first names on the team sheet, either at CB or DM.