Anyone who has not seen this coming for at least the last five years should pop along and become a Liverpool fan because they are disillusioned like that lot.

The idiot Gouley, Buck and Roman have ensured that unless we can talk a certain scottish knight out of retirement our only choice is Jose. There is no other choice and this is the corner we have backed ourselfs into by bad management from the board.

We have been ridding our luck for years and years now and its starting to catch up with us. We are still having luck now in as much as the league is such a poor level that even in our current form we should still finish 2nd or 3rd. Its going to take another 2/3 years to repair the damage done, Thats with Jose in charge if you looking at someone else (other then the retired scottish knight) then its 6/10, Its that bad and has been for quite a long time now, We need to forget about what we have won over those last years and look at the bigger picture and even during winning the Champions League win the bigger picture was pretty shocking and dire but alot of us fans (and the club) acted like the Liverpool fans did and stuck their heads in the sand and pretended all was rosey.

Well the truth is here now and we and the club have to deal with it.

This is where we are at the moment. We have two choices. Get behind the team and the manager (and the likes of the idiot Gouley which makes me want to cut myself trust me) or we can bitch and moan and cry like a bunch of spoilt children (which we have been lately).

We can come out of this and become the club we should have become 5 years ago but its not going to be easy or much fun, There will be more days like yesterday then days like we had in Bolton which seems many lifetimes ago.

Every Summer there are big changes and that has been the problem.

Big changes for big changes sake.

Instead of finding out why things are not working and putting that right we just chuck it all away and start again and then act shocked when the same things that went wrong go wrong again

Is there really any need to bring us LFC fans into your point. Not all Liverpool fans are delusional thank you very much. I feel there is really no need for the slating of fans from another club. I don't think you should stoop to these lengths as it negates your point. I'm sure I'm not the only one to find myself insulted by being called delusional. We know exactly how hard its been to get anywhere near where we are now but we know we still have a long way to go. Don't tar us all with a small minority of LFC fans.

Agree with all above. Will be an interesting ride. I was glad we lost yesterday in a perverse way as we deserved nothing from it and scraping through would just have prolonged our excruciating mediocrity. Play was too slow and there was no penetration. Get it sorted Jose.

Mouro says "We will have to ditch attacking football & go for the 1-0?? what does he think we've been doing but desperately trying to hold on to a 1 goal advantage in the last few games.
& how many of us wouldn't have subbed Luiz for JT, when it was obvious we were "Hanging on", his defending was comical for the equalizer.

We do have to get out of the mindset of "calling for the old guard" when things are going wrong. We did that with Drogba and yes we won things but it did hold us up with regards to moving past him and is a major part of the problems we are having now.

How are players going to learn if we keep either dropping them or subbing them? JT has played alot of games for us lately and is not a young man anymore. I remember JT making mistakes in his younger days and he learned from them, While the difference is in those days a Chelsea team losing at this point in the league cup would not have been the disastar it is now its still important for players like Luiz to make them.

JT/Lamps/Ash (to a lesser extent then the other two as I still think he a fantastic player) have a role to play but we have to start looking at a time when they can no longer play a role for us. They all deserve a new contract dont get me wrong but we need to start getting into a mindset where we dont think "we need to bring on JT or Lamps" etc.

This would be ok if Luiz was a promising youngster, but at only a few months from turning 27 and with as many games under his belt as he has it's clear by now that he's not good enough for us (at least in the CB position). It's gone beyond the point of thinking he might improve, he's making the same sort of mistakes just as frequently that he was making nearly three years ago when we first signed him.

If we were able to bring in a decent replacement in January, I'd be prepared to sell him as early as then.

This would be my choice of back 4, but I don't think Mourinho's played this combination all season:

Azpi - Ivanovic - Terry - Cole

I must say that's it's rather insulting to have my loyalty questioned by a few on here, just because i don't worship at the alter of Jose.
I used to there in the 'dark days' making 200 mile round trips on Wednesday nights in the middle of winter watching us play a load of shite agianst a load of shite.
Like everyone on here, i want the best for my club and want us to get back to where we once were. I just happen to think Jose is a tierd man in need of break from the game, and that we need a big clearout of players, plus Lamps as a player manager.
I don't see anything extreme or anti-Chelsea in wanting that.

Big changes as in there being more of a balance to squad, i don't just mean new players coming in.

I just don't know where we're "at" right now. A year or so ago, I thought we were on our way to creating a new side based around Mata, Hazard, Oscar and Luiz. Now two of those could be on their way out, I just don't understand the direction we're taking any more.

Of course he is and so are the rest of the team and thats because of the way the club is being run, With the revolving door of managers/styles of play/expecations etc that we have had over the last 10 years never mind 3.

Even players as wonderful as Hazzard and Mata have not improved to the level they should have been at by now.

You can not expect players to improve when they had 3 managers as different as AVB,Rafa and Jose in a very short amount of time. You could not get 3 more different people to work under from styles of play to managerment style etc.

The whole club has been stuck in the sand since Carlo was sacked and we have not moved one step forward. You can not expect players to move foraward if their surrounding have not

You can not have a player manager at a club like Chelsea yes it would have worked during the "dark days" but in 2013 with the off the pitch side of the job as well it just would not work.

Lamp's god bless him is no manager, Yes he very intellegent but then again so is Steven Hawkin. You need that little bit more, You can not learn it or gain exeperence in it, It is just there in you, He would make a great number two but as the main man? I just dont see it, Yes we could take a gamble and give it ago and if this was 6/7 years ago I would say "yeaa lets go for it" but in 2013 and with the number of changes we have had with managers we can not afford to take a risk.

Is Jose the best choice? Some might say yes and some might say no but sadly its no longer about that, Due to the way things have gone since we sacked Carlo he is the only choice, At least for the next 3/4-5 years, We can blame the board or the players or even the fans if we want but its where we are at the moment

Thats mainly due the fact these players were bought in for a certain manager and he ended up taking a different job

So if we're assuming that Mourinho will be here for the next few seasons, how long would you give Luiz to improve to the standard that we need him to be at?

I honestly dont think we have a choice with regards to Jose being here for the next few seasons, no matter how badly things go. We need some sort of consistency at somepoint or we are finished as a top 4 club. We have riden our luck for at least 5 years now.

How long? I have said from the start we should write this season off with regards to everything apart from finishing single points from the league winnners and start again from next season, So I would give not just him as I think all of our recent signings are not at the level they should be at a couple of seasons. If they dont improve at that point then thats when we need to look at getting rid of them. We have to start getting out of the habit of looking at whats going on during the current season but looking at where we will be in 3 years time.

With 10 years of Roman ownership we should have been lookijng at least rivalring Utds dominship of the English football but we have not even come close to that, We have gone so far back that we are near enough where we started from before Roman bought us, i.e a good cup team and have a decent title run in us but missing that little bit of something to give us the final push

Why has no-one brought up Cahill's defending for Ki's goal? Yes, Luiz could have done better for Borini's goal but the bottom line is the game should have been wrapped up by then. Eto'o missed a glorious chance to put us 2-0 up not to mention Luiz set up some lovely passes to Ba and had he been more clinical we could have been 3-0 up. I don't understand why Luiz is getting all the flack here when Cahill's defending wasn't any better.

Part of it (and only part of it has he has made mistakes) is this "playstation player" tag the media have given him.

For me Cahill is further away from a top 4 club player from a all round player POV but is more of a "premership defender" that we are use to.

I think your assessment is spot on. I know, Luiz has made some glaring mistakes over his time here at Chelsea but he offers something different to Cahill and JT. I don't have the stats on me but I'd be willing to say he makes more interceptions than Cahill. But of course, Cahill is much stronger in the air than Luiz. The problem I have with Cahill is that he's reactive not proactive. He gives players time to take a shot and doesn't close them down quick enough (which is what happened with Ki's goal).

Luiz is alot more talented the Cahill, Am not saying being a "premership defender" does not require talent because it does but a player like Luiz is not something we are use to the premership, We are use to the JT's of this world, all blood and thunder (no disrespect meant as they can be and have been fantastic) and are very talented but for me Luiz is something new in this league, He offers us something different and when on the top of his game will be something 9/10 we come accross will not be able to combat. He has never been given the chance to get to that level due to playing at Chelsea and the nonsense that comes along with that.

I do think in a couple of seasons time with the right managment and used in the right way his name will be meantioned with the very best in the world

I don't agree that we've been in decline ever since Carlo left.
Imho, there were some real signs of progress being shown under Rafa.
Cech was almost back to his very best.
Luiz was improving leaps and bounds when he moved in front of the defence.
Mata, Hazzard and Oscar were all playing great and looking like they'd only get better.
Lamps was still scoring freely.
The football was fast, exciting and entertaining.
Of course, there were some dreadful performances in the league as well, but there were some really positive signs for the future all the same.

Under the circumstances, with no players of his own, the crowd against him and knowing he'd be gone in a few months, i think Rafa did a great job. Certainly much better than what Jose is doing at the mo!

But thats Rafa, Short term he does a very good job but long term he leaves a mess, The players "looked like" they were getting better but actually was not, again something Rafa is very good at for me is a "smoke and mirrors" manager what Jose is trying to do is set us up for 3 seasons time, Which is something we should have done years ago, The thing that SAF did at Utd was do things people questioned at the time but 2 years later actually came to bloom and people forgot all the questions they asked in the past, I think thats part of reason he left when he did, He had nothing left in the tank for the future. When Roman bought us we had to do short term planning to make his investment worthwhile and after 4/5 years switch to a long term plan, We did not do that.

Its no good thinking of the good small bursts of good stuff but we need to look at the bigger picture, Its something we have refused to do as a club instead we looked at these small bursts of glory. Yes we won the Champions League (but they way we did was more of a lottery roll over win).

By now with the investement we have had and the level of the premership for the last couple of years we should have added a couple more league titles to our tally even if we put a trained chimp as manager. The only reason we have not is lack of intellegence and planning and common sense (or any sense whatsoever) of the board.

I have said this a couple of times now and I am hoping its finally coming true but it does look like we are doing so, I am more then willing to accept a season or so like this if in 3/4 years we win the league 3 years running etc and actually create something I can talk to my grandkids about being a part of, At the moment all we got is small bursts of glory, Which was not what we thought was going to happen after our first couple of titles

I think it's important to have that balance between a preimership defender (strong, dependable, good positional awareness etc) and defenders who are a bit more 'aggressive' like Luiz. Like you, I think Luiz is a better footballer than Cahill, after all, you don't get interest from Barcelona if you're not a good player! But I guess part of that reason is also down to the fact that Luiz would slot in Barcelona's system perfectly. When he's on the ball, you can see the quality he has with his passing and vision. And with JM saying he's considering reverting back to defensive football, I don't know when we are going to see the best of Luiz. Players like Luiz/Mata/Hazard all like having posession so why aren't we trying to build our game around that?

I don't know what Mou means by defensive football...are we going for more counter attacking? We have the players to do that - Schurrle/Willian/Hazard are all lightning quick. Or does he mean we're just going to sit back and play like we did at Old Trafford earlier this season? I can't say I'll be looking forward to the second scenario but if we manage to get results and stay in title race then it won't be so bad. I can't help but feel had we addressed our obvious problems earlier (ST/CM) we'd be in a much stronger place than we are now. Now I'm not sure who's fault this is (JM or the board, or a bit of both?) but we can't keep on going like this. We need to build a system and stick with it! I guess this ultimately boils down to whether Mou can deliver the 'beautiful' football he promised us at the start of the season. Of course it's far too early to say he can't and I just hope Roman has some patience because I do not want to see another sacking any time soon.

I can't see Abramovich having the patience to wait 3/4 years for any manager to deliver success. Nor can I really blame him, he's spent enough money to buy three or four teams already.
If I'm honest, my biggest worry would be to see RA just calling it a day and walking away. If that happens we will have blown a once in a lifetime opportunity. Roman's dream was to turn Chelsea into one of the greatest clubs in the world, playing a Chelsea version of the "beautiful game".
I would love to have been a fly on the wall during the pre-season discussions between Roman and Jose. What exactly is the plan ? Abramovich presumably still wants to see us play exciting attacking football, while still winning things every season. The problem is, that's not Jose's style. He is a much more pragmatic type of manager.
What's really annoying is that we made enormous progress very quickly in the first few years, with first Ranieri then Mourinho, and massive investments from RA. After that we kind of stagnated, then began to go backwards. Of course it's partly the fault of Abramovich that the dream has not been realised. There was no continuity. Different managers, different playing styles, the only thing they had in common was the drive for success..immediately. I don't see that changing, Mourinho will have to deliver. If he can build for the future as well, that's great. But don't expect Abramovich to wait around watching a team in "transition", he's always backed his demands with money, and plenty of it..so why should he ?

We are now at the stage where we dont have that many options.

We can carry on like we currently are and spending millions and millions and millions (and that plan has failed 100%) and the new FFP rules wont allow that or we change. If that means Roman goes then sadly so be it.

Chelsea did not blow Romans plans, Roman blew Romans plans by not having a good enough plan. In anywalk of life you need a plan to spend the money you have in a sensible way. Roman is not the club, Yes I am very pleased he came but i would rather be a team that lost becuase of us not being good enough then due to the poor running of the club.

Jose "not playing attacking football" is quite frankly aload of rubbish, He can and has played some fantastic attacking football when he has been allowed to put his plans into place.

The job he had to do last time at Chelsea was a walk in the park compared to now, Its almost impossible job BUT he is the only guy that can attempt it, If it works or not? Well thats the billion pound question.

Its all very simple the plan for instant sucess has been tried for 10 years now and has failed

Its not going to just changed and start working, The people are not at fault, The plan is at fault. Whats the thing to do? Lets do a Blue Peter comp, Ansrews on a postcard please

I don't think anyone should question your loyalty, we have all sorts at the bridge, just your judgement. I think most don't agree with you or understand where you're coming from. I wasn't a fan of Jose when he replaced Ranieri, but at the end of the season I was a believer. How you can even mention Rafa (Europa cup) Benitez in the same paragraph as Jose (2 league titles) Mourinho when talking about the club. Same with Torres. I vaguely recall you wanting to move drogba on so Torres could be all he could be with us. Beginning of this season you were calling Lukaku an uncultured lump and not good enough for Chelsea (I won't defend him too much as despite his good form for other prem teams, he's also not done that much in a Chelsea shirt). You've also called for us to move on Ramires who has been our best player bar none this season. Finally, you've asked for the unproven Lampard/Terry duo to take over as managers. I'm not even sure they have their badges yet so wouldn't be allowed to manage us in Europe regardless. Very very hard to take you seriously, but as parody it is genius.