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Is Torchwood in Doctor Who canon?


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Old 09-07-2013, 14:11
Sora2311
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Like does the events in Torchwood effect Doctor Who and vise versa? I don't recall ever hearing about a Torchwood story in doctor who and even during miracle day nothing was mentioned.
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Old 09-07-2013, 14:16
Mulett
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Yes - they're directly mentioned in both, on many occasions, including character cross-overs and story cross-overs too.
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Old 09-07-2013, 14:21
Sora2311
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That was in RTD's era. Torchwood and Jack have been forgotten about under SM's reign of terror
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Old 09-07-2013, 14:24
Mulett
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Few examples:

In Torchwood[LIST][*]Several mentions of the Doctor throughout[*]References to Rose making jack immortal[*]Jack has the 10th Doctor's severed hand in a jar throughout season 1 of Torchwood[*]TARDIS is heard materialising in the final scene of the final episode of season 1[*]Martha appears in season 2, and she and Jack reference the events in The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords[*]It is mentioned that the entrance to the hub is, basically, invisible because that's where the TARDIS materialised and refueled in Boom Town[/LIST]
In Doctor Who[LIST][*]Torchwood mentioned throughout Season 2, and at various points in seasons that follow[*]Torchwood hub, plus Jack, Gwen and Ianto all appear in The Stolen Earth/Journey's End - and Tosh and Owen are both mentioned on screen too[/LIST]
But you're right - since Moffat took over he's pretty much erased/ignored everything from the (far superior) RTD era. Which I think is a great shame
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Old 09-07-2013, 14:52
CD93
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I'm happy leaving both Torchwood and Jack with RTD.

Not that I care about either any longer. Moffat ignoring TW is not something I care to be annoyed with. I would rather see more UNIT than some second hand attempt to rebuild that flailing organisation in the main show.

As for TW affecting Who. DW is the prime show - Torchwood doesn't need to be written in a way which demands attention or references to all of it's plot lines. While fans would appreciate it, I'm sure - it doesn't need to be pandered to.

Torchwood isn't in the same position it was under Moffat than it was under RTD. I suspect there was some intention in that.
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Old 09-07-2013, 14:59
ShootyDogThing
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That was in RTD's era. Torchwood and Jack have been forgotten about under SM's reign of terror
Just because they haven't been mentioned doesn't erase them from the canon. I'm positive we'll see Jack again at some point (apparently Moffat wanted to bring him back for 'A Good Man...'), and after the events Miracle Day, Torchwood disbanded and doesn't really exist anymore.
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Old 09-07-2013, 15:00
Sue_Aitch
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Few examples:

In Torchwood[LIST][*]Several mentions of the Doctor throughout[*]References to Rose making jack immortal[*]Jack has the 10th Doctor's severed hand in a jar throughout season 1 of Torchwood[*]TARDIS is heard materialising in the final scene of the final episode of season 1[*]Martha appears in season 2, and she and Jack reference the events in The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords[*]It is mentioned that the entrance to the hub is, basically, invisible because that's where the TARDIS materialised and refueled in Boom Town[/LIST]
In Doctor Who[LIST][*]Torchwood mentioned throughout Season 2, and at various points in seasons that follow[*]Torchwood hub, plus Jack, Gwen and Ianto all appear in The Stolen Earth/Journey's End - and Tosh and Owen are both mentioned on screen too[/LIST]
But you're right - since Moffat took over he's pretty much erased/ignored everything from the (far superior) RTD era. Which I think is a great shame
Ain't necessarily so: the line in the Wedding of River Song " I could go to all of Jack's stag-does on one night?"

The Ponds and Williamses don't seem to have lived through the events of Miracle Day in either the Crack!Universe nor post Big Bang 2, however, and I am grateful for that!
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Old 09-07-2013, 15:16
Yoshee
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Love how everyone's already hating on Moffat yet again. "He's completely ignored everything Russell T Davies did ever..." Yes, because now the Time Lords are all back, the Time War never happened and nothing was ever referenced again... except that the Doctor still is the last of the Time Lords, his previous companions (Rose, Martha, Donna) were shown onscreen in Let's Kill Hitler on the TARDIS voice interface, and The Stolen Eath/Journey's End and The Next Doctor were referenced in Victory of the Daleks and Flesh and Stone respectively. Oh and who's that returning in the 50th anniversary special this year? Not Ten and Rose surely. Moffat would never include Davies characters in his stories...

Ever considered that when Moffat took over he may have wanted to start the new Doctor's era with new companions and not completely focused on stuff Davies did? From what I can gather, not many companions from the classic series were mentioned again after their departure or after the Doctor they travelled with regenerated. For example, Adric was important throughout the Fifth Doctor's era, and his death affected Five deeply, but after he regerated into Six he was basically forgotten about.

As for Torchwood, there isn't exactly much to reference or continue since the series left off... before Miracle Day we were left with most of the team dead, Gwen pregnant, and Jack off on a spaceship somewhere. Miracle Day seemed as though it was in a different universe and canon to Doctor Who to be honest. But even if it wasn't, it was left with Gwen, Jack, and Rex just after Esther's funeral, with no base and no clear direction for what would happen next. Seriously, we have no idea where they would be now or what would have happened.

I would love to see Jack get brought back at some point, but would it be just him or the three of them? Would Miracle Day be referenced? See, it wouldn't be so easy as to just bring him back without any explanation - or if that did happen, then people would complain there was no explanation of where in his life he was, what happened between MD and his next DW appearance. I think if RTD wrote another story or two for the current series, then it could work. But what has Moffat actually been left with in terms of bringing Jack or the Torchwood team back? Just my "two cents", as they say.
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Old 09-07-2013, 15:22
Benjamin Sisko
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Funny how people are now using Torchwood to take shots at Moffat, without even considering the context. Not to mention the lower amount of contempory Earth stories since he took over.

"Can we all just get along?" - Rodney King

EDIT: Yoshee took the words right out of my mouth.

Moffat has carried over more elements from RTD than any other previous DW Showrunner has from their predesessor. The similarities between the Graham Williams era and the Hinchcliffe era can be counted on one hand!
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Old 09-07-2013, 17:24
So 3008
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Yes but the events of Children of Earth and Miracle Day were erased by the cracks in time / and or it's was all a parallel universe / and or it was all a crazy dream.

Well that's my excuse(s) on why both series that should have had a massive prolonged and negative effect on the Whoniverse have never been referenced again. Especially Miracle Day!
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Old 09-07-2013, 17:38
JohnnyForget
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That was in RTD's era. Torchwood and Jack have been forgotten about under SM's reign of terror
Firstly, SM's era is not a reign of terror. Not that there's anything wrong with the Reign Of Terror, it was one of Hartnell's better stories.

Secondly, if Torchwood and Jack have been forgotten by SM, all I can say is so what? Torchwood, after starting off quite good, pretty soon became crap, and in retrospect there was nothing that special about Jack Harkness either.
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Old 09-07-2013, 17:50
saladfingers81
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The usual suspects with their anti Moffat axe to grind. After the horror show of Miracle Day I am glad TW isn't mentioned. But really. What is it with people mindlessly using any old excuse to bash Moffat? As has already been explained he tried to get Jack back
...its a damn shame he wasn't able to.

But that aside would Doctor Who be enhanced if every so often the Doctor went 'Hey! Remember that guy Ianto Jones...'and goes all misty eyed? No. No it wouldn't.
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Old 09-07-2013, 18:13
W._O._Frobozz
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After the horror that "Miracle Day" was I can't even imagine where Torchwood...which is basically just the Jack show now... would fit in. I'm pretty sure a gigantic butt...errr...."morphic field" would have been noticed by the Doctor at some point, along with all the Earth's residents being somewhat immortal. The Butt at the Centre of the Earth kind of flies in the face of the Racnoss doesn't it?

I just shake my head at what Torchwood became. "Children of Earth" was so bloody good I just don't know how RTD could mess it up so badly.
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Old 09-07-2013, 19:14
mossy2103
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But that aside would Doctor Who be enhanced if every so often the Doctor went 'Hey! Remember that guy Ianto Jones...'and goes all misty eyed? No. No it wouldn't.
It would for that crackpot "No Ianto, no Torchwood" brigade


http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1444917





I still recall photos of that shrine to Ianto that was created (outside the TV studios I think)
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Old 09-07-2013, 19:19
mossy2103
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[quote=mossy2103;66954185]It would for that crackpot "No Ianto, no Torchwood" brigade


http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1444917





I still recall photos of that shrine to Ianto that was created (at Mermaid Quay in Cardiff):

http://www.saveianto.com/cardiff-shrine.html
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Old 09-07-2013, 19:55
C. Samurai
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But you're right - since Moffat took over he's pretty much erased/ignored everything from the (far inferior) RTD era. Which I think is a great shame
Fixed.

(And before you get Auntie's bloomers in a spin, I LIKE RTD's era)
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Old 09-07-2013, 20:45
Mrfipp
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I like to think both Doctor Who and Torchwood are canon to the other, but it's not really a big deal if they don't aknowledge each other. The writers of either shouldn't have to worry about writing something that dosen't flow with something that happened in the other show.

Canon in who has always been loose.
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Old 09-07-2013, 21:09
rionia
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The Doctor was referenced in TW Miracle Day (In the Jack/Angelo episode)
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Old 09-07-2013, 21:18
rionia
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I still recall photos of that shrine to Ianto that was created (outside the TV studios I think)
The shrine was (is?) in Mermaid Quay where the TW entrance was.

It was still there last year, and even had an official council plaque. I think the council considered it a tourist attraction!
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Old 09-07-2013, 21:58
tomwozhere
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The RTD era really isn't far superior. Thank you. Goodbye.
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Old 09-07-2013, 23:18
Airborae
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Not having seen the fourth series as a whole, I'm really enjoying it. As good as Children Of Earth. Part 7 tomorrow night!
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Old 09-07-2013, 23:37
lordo350
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It all slotted in nicely up until Miracle Day. Children of Earth takes place over 5 days, and one of its main themes was the realization the Doctor is not always around to save the day. So many times in COE you can't help wishing he's going to show up at the last minute. But, he doesn't, and things go from bad, to worse, to worse still. And, having Jack appear in the End of Time getting drunk in a bar somewhere in space followed on nicely from COE's ending.

Miracle Day, basically, botched all that up. It takes place over several months, is a massive world wide event that would have shaken it to the core, and not a single mention is made in DW. The very slim argument as to the Doctor's absence is that, while Miracle Day is going on, he's looking for River and ignoring all his calls. But, come on. He's ignoring Amy's calls because he feels guilty. There's no way in hell he'd ignore a call for help from Martha, or Sarah-Jane, both of whom, presumably, experienced Miracle Day as well. And all it took to get him back to Earth was a crop circle. Try nobody being able to die, Doctor. That not serious enough for you?

Tbh, it's very hard to slot Miracle Day into DW canon, and I'm not entirely sure we are supposed to, at least until the day comes Jack appears in DW again. In which case, don't be surprised if none of the events of Miracle Day are referenced. Tbh, Miracle Day was pretty crap, so I can quite easily pretend it never happened.
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Old 09-07-2013, 23:41
Sora2311
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It all slotted in nicely up until Miracle Day. Children of Earth takes place over 5 days, and one of its main themes was the realization the Doctor is not always around to save the day. So many times in COE you can't help wishing he's going to show up at the last minute. But, he doesn't, and things go from bad, to worse, to worse still. And, having Jack appear in the End of Time getting drunk in a bar somewhere in space followed on nicely from COE's ending.

Miracle Day, basically, botched all that up. It takes place over several months, is a massive world wide event that would have shaken it to the core, and not a single mention is made in DW. The very slim argument as to the Doctor's absence is that, while Miracle Day is going on, he's looking for River and ignoring all his calls. But, come on. He's ignoring Amy's calls because he feels guilty. There's no way in hell he'd ignore a call for help from Martha, or Sarah-Jane, both of whom, presumably, experienced Miracle Day as well. And all it took to get him back to Earth was a crop circle. Try nobody being able to die, Doctor. That not serious enough for you?

Tbh, it's very hard to slot Miracle Day into DW canon, and I'm not entirely sure we are supposed to, at least until the day comes Jack appears in DW again. In which case, don't be surprised if none of the events of Miracle Day are referenced. Tbh, Miracle Day was pretty crap, so I can quite easily pretend it never happened.
Great post. The world would be much better off without Miracle Day
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Old 09-07-2013, 23:42
sebbie3000
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Yes but the events of Children of Earth and Miracle Day were erased by the cracks in time / and or it's was all a parallel universe / and or it was all a crazy dream.

Well that's my excuse(s) on why both series that should have had a massive prolonged and negative effect on the Whoniverse have never been referenced again. Especially Miracle Day!
Nope. It's a spin-off. No spin-off ever has any say on its parent show. It is entirely the other way round - the main show comes first (as it always should), and things that happen in that could affect the spin-off. It is madness to think the spin-off should affect the main show!
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Old 09-07-2013, 23:46
Sora2311
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Nope. It's a spin-off. No spin-off ever has any say on its parent show. It is entirely the other way round - the main show comes first (as it always should), and things that happen in that could affect the spin-off. It is madness to think the spin-off should affect the main show!
When it's a big event like no one in the world can flipping die I think they could at least make a passing reference like Amy: Doctor nobody on earth can die. Doctor: Don't worry my mate Jack takes care of that. As he has been to 2012 and everything was normal he wouldn't want to interfere
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