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So does Miracle Day occur in the Doctor Who universe?


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Old 13-07-2013, 20:56
TheTreasureGame
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I know that Doctor Who and Torchwood are both set in the same universe, obviously, but no reference between both shows is made, during Miracle Day. But I then realised that in one episode of Miracle Day, Jack mentions the Doctor to Angelo (I think...). But then, this gives me a headache.

If Miracle Day is set in 2011, then you must realise that previous companions of the Doctor must've experienced Miracle Day as well. Amy and Rory must've experienced it too, because the Angels Take Manhattan is set in 2012 -

Amy and Rory's grave is extremely fresh and, based on it's appearance, is very recent and new, meaning they both die around 2012. So when they got sent back in time to the 1930s or 1940s, they would've lived and thus been alive in 2011 to experience Miracle Day. So, in their last years of their lives, did Miracle Day happen to them...or...?

But why isn't Miracle Day mentioned at all in Doctor Who?


This does not make any sense. And since The Sarah Jane Adventures is in the same universe as DW and Torchwood, then that means Sarah Jane, Clyde, Rani, Luke, and Sky all experienced it, since these stories are set around September-October 2011, whilst we can put Miracle Day as being around July-August based on it's airdate.

So is Miracle Day canon, or is it not?
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Old 13-07-2013, 21:17
kyllerbuzcut
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Can we chalk this one up to Clara fixing it?

So while it happened, it happened in an alternate branch of the universe?

While I loved miracle day, these are the kind of problems that the big RTD style epic Dr Who episodes ( yes I loved those at the time too) with massive alien invasions etc left in their wake. It was made without much thought of where it left things for the future. So, now it has left a problem that either has to be ignored, or some other writer has to come along and attempt to solve it. And no matter how good the writer does it there will always be people who don't like it.

Oh- didn't Amy and Rory die before 2011 when they got sent back?
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Old 13-07-2013, 21:29
TheTreasureGame
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Amy and Rory didn't die before 2011. I don't know what you mean, but here is an overview:

Amy and Rory died in 1938 to wipe out the Angel's Paradox and to erase Winter Quay from history, so the Angels in Manhattan cease to exist.

They wake up in 2012 with the Doctor and River, but are sent back in time a second time back to the 1930s, or 1940s, where they live out another life and die in 2012.

My post was whether Miracle Day was canon since it took place in 2011, and Amy and Rory's graves are seen to be fresh and recent, meaning they must've died atleast a year after Miracle Day took place, since we get a glimpse of their graves in 2012, since, that's when the episode and the scene with their gravestones takes place.


Edit:

Can you explain what you mean by "alternate branch of the universe"?
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Old 13-07-2013, 21:58
kyllerbuzcut
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I just remember some people talking about what the years they died could have been. From back near when the episode aired. It was just something that stuck in my head.

The gravestones could be fresh if their bodies were moved to there from somewhere else, or were replaced by newer ones at some point. ( or the props department didn't think about making it look too old).

I just had a think about working out the years..... ( PS- yes I am VERY sad for doing this lol)

The gravestone said Amy lived longest- to 87.

So, even if we say she was 25 ( Both her and Rory seemed to be getting a lot older though, throughout the series, but even if we say she was that young still, then we can see where it goes)

If she died at 87 then that means she lived another 62 years after being sent back to the 30's. (It would be less than that if she was older than 25, but lets see where it goes...)

So even if we make the date 1940 then she would have still died in 2002. And that's with making the dates and years favourable to make try and make her alive in 2011.

To have died in 2011 at 87 then she would have had to be sent back to 1949 ( if we assume she is 25 at the time) ranging to 1954 ( if she was 30) to 1959 ( if she was 35). I've seen different people come up with theories on what age they both were over the series, due to various mentions of months passing in between seeing the doctor.


By alternate branch I guess I was just trying to say it was really like an alternate timeline that happened, and at some point it must get reversed or something, but we haven't seen that happen ( yet). Not that I think that is what happened, but it is just one scenario of what it could be.

I think Miracle day has to sit in a sort of in-between universe for the moment until more facts are pinpointed about it, either in future Torchwood episodes, or in Dr Who itself.
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Old 13-07-2013, 22:02
SpringheelJack
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IIRC, and not to really screw with your heads, but the date of the 'death' of the Doctor at the hands of the 'Impossible Astronaut' occurs right in the middle of the events of Miracle Day.

Which means Rory and Amy should be bringing this up when the Doctor picks them up. And also makes the Silence's plan to execute the Doctor on Earth at a time when no-one can die potentially a little more flawed than they first thought...
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Old 13-07-2013, 22:10
kyllerbuzcut
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IIRC, and not to really screw with your heads, but the date of the 'death' of the Doctor at the hands of the 'Impossible Astronaut' occurs right in the middle of the events of Miracle Day.

Which means Rory and Amy should be bringing this up when the Doctor picks them up. And also makes the Silence's plan to execute the Doctor on Earth at a time when no-one can die potentially a little more flawed than they first thought...
Could you please bring me my tinfoil hat, I need to go start rocking in the corner.

So what does that leave us with then?

Big bang couldn't have fixed it- that was before.

What about the events of Wedding of River Song? IS there any way that could have 'sorted' it?

Could the Great Intelligence/ Clara travelling through the Doctors past have altered things so Miracle Day didn't happen?

A future event will explain it all?

A Wizard did it?
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Old 13-07-2013, 22:12
SpringheelJack
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Yup. Once upon a time, a long-forgotten cheerful Welsh Wizard spun a spell that ruined the plans of a grumpy Scottish Warlock...
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Old 13-07-2013, 22:15
C. Samurai
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This does not make any sense
Congratulations, you've just had an epiphany about all of Doctor Who, it's why we love it.
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Old 13-07-2013, 22:21
SpringheelJack
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Congratulations, you've just had an epiphany about all of Doctor Who, it's why we love it.
^WINNER!
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Old 13-07-2013, 22:28
Sh'boobie
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The crack in Amy's wall wiped Miracle Day from existence.
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Old 13-07-2013, 22:29
kyllerbuzcut
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OK how about this one. Not sure if it really works, but......

At some point in the future, Jack ends up in the past (again). So in wibbly wobbly Dr Who terms- this has yet to happen. It is THIS Jack that turns up in Miracle day.

This would mean that it is really miracle day that trumps all the other ( current) timelines. Because it is the latest thing to happen. So .... wait a minute I don't like this idea actually. lol

So- what if it is a PAST Jack that turned up then? At some point after Miracle day ends he goes off again and later turns up back at Torchwood again,( before any of this happened), before going away at the end of Children of Earth. That would mean everything that happened to Jack in his life AFTER Miracle day is the most current 'real' timeline.

This could work because of all of Jack's coming and goings. Similar to River Song, he could be doing things in the wrong order.

....Shall I get my coat?............
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Old 13-07-2013, 22:31
Granny McSmith
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Congratulations, you've just had an epiphany about all of Doctor Who, it's why we love it.
Absolutely got it in one!
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Old 13-07-2013, 22:54
ryanellis
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Guys I'm sure Rory said he was 32 in 'Dinosaurs' and I'm sure Amy (unless I imagined this) mentioned she was 35 in 'Angels'? Or maybe Moffat said that somewhere? Can't quite remember it. They definitely did mention that he had been in their lives over ten years though at some point (slightly inaccurate as you could add another 14 for Amy but hey ho...)

But if he met Amy in 1996, 'The Eleventh Hour' occurred in 2008, then we picked up in 2011... and then 'Angels' would have been somewhere in the mid-2020's...]

The Miracle probably just fell through a crack in the wall or something \o/
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Old 13-07-2013, 22:54
inspector drake
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IIRC, and not to really screw with your heads, but the date of the 'death' of the Doctor at the hands of the 'Impossible Astronaut' occurs right in the middle of the events of Miracle Day.

Which means Rory and Amy should be bringing this up when the Doctor picks them up. And also makes the Silence's plan to execute the Doctor on Earth at a time when no-one can die potentially a little more flawed than they first thought...
It was made clear that the Miracle ONLY affected humans.
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Old 13-07-2013, 22:58
kyllerbuzcut
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It was made clear that the Miracle ONLY affected humans.
Yeah- that's true. Forgot about that.

Here's another poser- When River shot at the 'astronaut' and then stopped ans said "of course" was she actually talking about 'of course, it's miracle day- I can't kill anyone'....?

I don't personally think that was the case- just another thing to think about really
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Old 13-07-2013, 22:58
bbll22
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Guys I'm sure Rory said he was 32 in 'Dinosaurs' and I'm sure Amy (unless I imagined this) mentioned she was 35 in 'Angels'? Or maybe Moffat said that somewhere? Can't quite remember it. They definitely did mention that he had been in their lives over ten years though at some point (slightly inaccurate as you could add another 14 for Amy but hey ho...)
Indeed, in the build-up to the Angels Take Manhattan, it was either said by Moffat or Skinner that Amy & Rory were in their mid-30s by this point. I think it also may have been in the teasers from one website that just wanted to clarify it.

Also, I think it's safe to say with those ages in mind that they died definitely before 2012....quite a bit before I'd have thought....
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Old 13-07-2013, 23:06
inspector drake
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Yeah- that's true. Forgot about that.

Here's another poser- When River shot at the 'astronaut' and then stopped ans said "of course" was she actually talking about 'of course, it's miracle day- I can't kill anyone'....?

I don't personally think that was the case- just another thing to think about really
Perhaps the three families were somehow aware of the Doctor's supposed death and activated the miracle at some point after 22nd April.
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Old 13-07-2013, 23:55
SpringheelJack
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It was made clear that the Miracle ONLY affected humans.
Kovarian: Yes, we shall enact a galactic-wide, centuries-long convoluted plot to kill the Doctor once and for all!

The Silence: When is the best time and place?

Kovarian: How about during that period on Earth when no human can die!

The Silence: Yes! Then his companions will distract him with stories of Miracle Day, allowing us to creep up with River and kill him!

Kovarian: Yes, it's not like in the middle of the greatest human crisis ever, they'll sit around and drink wine casually talking about Napoleon...!

(Later at the Lake, the one lone Silence looks on...)

The Silence: Nope, no-one has mentioned Miracle Day to the Doctor... Not even the funny one with the big nose...

Kovarian: ...really?


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Old 14-07-2013, 00:07
kegsie
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The crack in Amy's wall wiped Miracle Day from existence.
Amy's crack does seem to be the answer to many things.
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Old 14-07-2013, 04:10
Theophile
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Amy's crack does seem to be the answer to many things.
Maybe it is the fact that it is so late at night, but this sentence just sounds so wrong.
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Old 14-07-2013, 07:34
starsailor
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Amy's crack does seem to be the answer to many things.
Possibly, but does that mean that all the characters which died in miracle day are now alive? Like that doctor who was in that furnace or ester (was that her name?)who died at the end?

Is that massive thing in the middle of the earth still there? And why has the doctor not ever noticed it before? What's going on with Jack, or eve? Is Rex immortal still?

Oh who even cares? It's just a big pile of rubbish. Torchwood is nigh on dead and buried anyway, even ifs not officially so
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Old 14-07-2013, 07:56
Sara_Peplow
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Rory said he wad 31 in dis amy said they had known the doctor for 10 years. Meaning if they were sent back to the same year 1938 he would have died in 1989 same year he was originally born in ledworth. Amy outlived her husband by 5 years. Meaning she died in 1994 two years before she met the doctor aged 7. Would love to see them in matts last episode. As for miracle day i think 11 missed it. Sure he would have helped if jack had contacted him.
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Old 14-07-2013, 08:37
kyllerbuzcut
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Maybe it is the fact that it is so late at night, but this sentence just sounds so wrong.
Sounds so wrong, but feels so right.....?


Wasn't the Earth inside some kind of seal or something during miracle day, so no aliens could get in? I sem to remember something like that being said. Perhaps as a way to explain why the doc didn't just show up?
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Old 14-07-2013, 09:12
SpringheelJack
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Sounds so wrong, but feels so right.....?


Wasn't the Earth inside some kind of seal or something during miracle day, so no aliens could get in? I sem to remember something like that being said. Perhaps as a way to explain why the doc didn't just show up?
Except the Doctor did show up - he was in Utah, being killed at the time.

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Old 14-07-2013, 10:01
Sh'boobie
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Amy's crack does seem to be the answer to many things.
Well, one of the many narrative functions that the crack served - was to wipe out many aspects of the RTD's Era that Moffat didn't want to honour. (ie: Humans having any recollection of RTD'S many Invasions of Earth - Dalek / Cybermen / Slitheen / Sycorax / The 456 - etc.)

Arguably the biggest unwelcome skid RTD left in the Whoniverses' collective undies - was Miracle Day.

Why that should fare better out of the Crack 'Re-set' button - than any better than other event from his canon - equally makes no sense - and it's continued existence could also be seen as a nerd-appeasing contrivance.

Personally, I think the sooner that Miracle Day is erased from canon, the sooner people can start looking Torchwood in the eye again.

It really was deeply, thoroughly, unforgivably bad.
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