Originally Posted by Josh Pinder:
“You mean i am unentitled to my own opinion based on the music i love?”
i'm not saying that, and i don't think anyone else is saying that either. you are fully entitled to your opinion, regardless of what it is, and regardless of whether anyone agrees with it or not, no matter how controversial, weird or strange it is. at least in this country we have a view where we might not share your opinion, but we share your right to have your opinion, no matter our own views on the subject
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“ If you do not like it then that is your choice....i however love it and IMO it is one of the finest albums ever created....Erotica, Bad girl, Rain, Words, Waiting, Thief Of Hearts, Secret garden, Bye Bye Baby, Deeper & Deeper, Whys It SO Hard? what a canvas across one album? and the blend of sounds and styles across 13 songs and the infamous Rain Tapes....its not something to be denyed....so to deny it is completely mind baffling. ”
now that is your opinion, which is perfectly fine. i disagree completely. that may baffle your mind as you probably haven't experienced anything near as vast and varied a selection of music as i have, so i can put it into a greater context than you. if your experience and understanding of music is limited, your choice of best album will be from limited choice
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“What i have stated are some facts and opinions, there is no need to take it to such extremes due to personal dislike for it surely?”
there are no extremes. there is no problem with your opinions. the issue is that your "facts" aren't facts, and are mostly nonsense. and i mean that in the true sense of the word in that they make no sense, and i've elaborated on the thread to explain a number of those points, such as your completely innaccurate statements about financials
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“I mean before Erotica what album was out there like it”
the point of music is to make something different. there wasn't an album like it, but individually from the tracks that make the album, there is nothing that hasn't been done before. deeper and deeper is just a formuliac house track by numbers, fever is an uninspired cover, and erotica isn't hugely different from justify my love, which was copied almost verbatim from ingrid chavez's demo, and was pretty much the public enemy track security of the first world (which is an instrumental that's little more than the drums and the backing sounds you hear on JML)
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“and so daring to push those boundaries of art and pop music and mesh together an album diverse in scope and genre and so intensely beautiful yet ironically humourous?”
what you've just described there isn't something madonna did with erotica. but other artists like the beatles did it back in 1967 with sgt pepper. the beach boys did the same with pet sounds and again with smile. those were albums that were genuinely daring and groundbreaking, and literally changed the world of music forever. erotica changed nothing
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“ I mean its impact was practically instant”
what impact? that statement is pretty meaningless. pretty much everything has an impact of sorts, but erotica had no notable impact
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“and many didnt warm to it so well initially....yet you have so many crediting the album and era years down the line....for example i love the way Shirley Manson has spoke of it and recently (last summer) incorporated the title song into Number 1 Crush. Its not something to doubt when its there to read and listen and i dont like the fact that now i am accused of not even having my own opinion and taking others......”
this is interesting, as people are saying one thing, not just me, and you are reading what they are saying quite clearly, and i can understand what they are saying, but you are interpreting it very differently and ending up with an incorrect assumption and conclusion.
it seems to follow the same pattern as your conclusions towards music, but the words are said now and in black and white, and even after you've questioned some and had clarification back, you still don't understand.
no-one is questioning your right to your opinion, and no-one is saying you are taking your opinions from others.
what i and others are pointing out is that you weren't there at the time of the albums release at an age to be able to sufficiently experience the albums release in the context of the music that came before it and came out around the time of the album. instead you are relying on what other people had said, and you are plagurising them by using their experiences to descibe things that you didn't experience yourself, and the end result is you are posting nonsense, in the true meaning of the word. and it's not just this thread you've done it on. a huge amount of what you post is just factually incorrect and plain wrong
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“I created this thread to discuss Janets third studio album, and paint the era as it was andsee if people stil lplay it/love it and see just how it has adapted with time...not to be put down!”
but no-one is putting you down. and you weren't painting the era as it was. how old were you when erotica came out? i though you were in your very early 20s, so you would have literally been a toddler when the album came out, if you were even born before it came out, so how can you paint an era that you couldn't properly experience, to people like myself who were around and old enought to experience it for themselves? you are essentially trying to tell people who witnessed and experienced something that although you weren't really there and taking it all in, that something happened that didn't really happen. and then when the people who were there point out that you are wrong, and they were there and experienced it, and explained what happened, and what you didn't experience, you try arguing with them saying they were wrong. but it's you who is wrong. what you have painted is far from the truth.
as i explained before, that period was a low point for pop music, boring uninspired music by numbers, cover versions, samples, tracks by numbers. the public was bored by it so the sales declined and it opened up opportunities for other styles of music to enter the mainstream and sell huge quantities and appear on prime time tv and radio. grunge, hip hop, dance and indie took hold of the single and albums charts because pop was so lame at the time. those were the styles of music that had the greatest impact and influence at the time. that's why nevermind sold 5 times what erotica sold, because it was far more inspired and engaging. for a thrash metal band like mettalica to enter the mainstream charts and sell nearly 3 times what erotica sold is something truly incredible. even i bought and enjoyed that album, and i normally can't stand that type of music, and i surely can't be the only one. the period you mentioned was a time of huge change in music, but madonna and the jacksons were not part of that change, they were left behind for a long time, if not permanently. once the other genres took a hold of the charts, rnb became the most popular genre instead of pop music, and that's one of the reasons why the janet album sold 20 million copies and crazysexycool sold even more than that