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Panasonic TV on wifi causes other problems with other wireless devices


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Old 17-07-2013, 18:27
shaun13
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I recently purchased a 2013 Panasonic viera smart tv (TX-L42DT65) and have had some strange experiences with the wireless connectivity. However, based on some comments from Panasonic's technical support department (and from Googling) I suspect this issues applies to many of Panasonic's TVs from the last couple of years...

Apologies for the long post below but basically I'm lookling to see if anyone else has come up with any fixes (e.g. a router setting tweak) or has a newish router and a recent Panasonic Smart TV that works flawlessly on wireless?

When I got the TV it connected to my existing wifi network without any problem and all the apps generally worked. However, over the next few days & weeks I noticed that sometimes my other wireless devices (3 laptops, a desktop and a Windows phone) would often fail to connect to the wireless network when they had previoulsy been working flawlessly for a long time, regardless of how many of them were switched on. When in this state I discovered that the TV's network status page also reported that it could see the network and was "trying to connect". Switching off the TV immediately resolved the issue and the other devices then worked fine again. Sometimes the TV and all devices worked okay, sometimes the problem would last for say 10 minutes, sometimes longer. No obvious pattern. I live in an isolated location so wireless inteference was ruled out.

Panasonic initially said my router firmware was probably too old and I needed the latest firmware. My DLink DSL-2740B is one of those where there have been several variants over the years and inconsistent "latest" firmwares have been published on various DLink global sites but I eventually found one from 2011 that was compatible and worked okay. This initially seemed to resolve the problem but after a few days it did appear again (and knocked out all other devices for well over an hour - when my wife finished watching her programmed I swicthed off the TV and all other devices immediately worked again).

The fact that the TV can be switched off and on again later and things are fine seems to point away from it being a router problem (I think). When it had ocurred (before the firmware update) I did try a reboot of the router but that only gave a brief (few minute) respite. I also tried a fixed IP address for the TV but that didn't help either. When the TV is causing things to fail, if I plug my laptop directly into the router with a cable then it works fine, it is just all wireless that the TV knocks out.

I contacted Panasonic again and they did admit in passing that they have seen this problem for a while. They mentioned a firmware update to an earlier TV range (about 18 months ago I think they said) when this first started happening. They believe it is due to routers treating the TV as causing some sort of denial of service attack "due to the number of connections". I find that hard to believe as in one case it ocurred within seconds of the TV being swicthed on and no smart features being used (as is the same usage pattern when everything works fine too), although of course it may connect various apps in the background, perhaps? Anyway, they are now basically saying my only choice is to buy a new router as mine is "too old".

My background is in software development and I find it hard to believe with all the evidence that the TV firmware is not at fault somehow. Panasonic claim otherwise and insist their firmware is 100% compliant with all protocols etc etc.

So, I guess they don't plan to do anything about it so I have no choice but to get a new router. As I said earlier - can anyone recommend a recent router that works flawlessly with a recent (2012/2013 model) Panasonic smart TV in wireless mode?

Thanks for your patience if you read this far!
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Old 17-07-2013, 18:59
Winston_1
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So, I guess they don't plan to do anything about it so I have no choice but to get a new router.
No you have another and better choice. Reject that TV back to the supplier as not being fit for purpose under the Sale of Goods Act. Than buy another brand of TV that is fit for purpose.

Lots of people doing that is the only way Panasonic will improve their customer service and fix the fault.
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Old 18-07-2013, 10:14
iangrad
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Over the years I have seen all sorts of "odd" effects on wireless connected devises including the effect mentioned by the OP -- changing the router will cure it ( but the original router is not faulty as such )

But why are you bothering with wireless at all , it will be forever buffering etc -- you have a very hi end TV do the best for it and connect it via a Ethernet cable , if that is not possible use home plugs it virtually like a wired connection without running a cable

I have done a few installs using Devolo av mini 500mbs and they are excellent as of course are many others !
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Old 18-07-2013, 10:14
AlanO
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No you have another and better choice. Reject that TV back to the supplier as not being fit for purpose under the Sale of Goods Act. Than buy another brand of TV that is fit for purpose.

Lots of people doing that is the only way Panasonic will improve their customer service and fix the fault.
I don't agree with that assessment that the TV is unfit for purpose - and I'm not sure a retailer, manufacturer or, more importantly a small claims court would, either.

The router predates the TV - the fact the router can't handle the TV isn't a fault with the TV nor does it make the TV 'unfit' for purpose, unless you've been given a specific assurance that the TV would work with any router regardless of its age or configuration - which you won't have. Instead there will be some suitable covering statement about 'requiring a suitable internet connection' or similar.

You have to think of the router the same way as you would a roof aerial - just because you've had the same one on your roof for 20 years doesn't mean a new TV will automatically work with it.
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Old 18-07-2013, 12:59
tealady
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But why are you bothering with wireless at all , it will be forever buffering etc -- you have a very hi end TV do the best for it and connect it via a Ethernet cable , if that is not possible use home plugs it virtually like a wired connection without running a cable

I have done a few installs using Devolo av mini 500mbs and they are excellent as of course are many others !
Yes, I would try ethernet too and see what happens and move the router nearer and away from other devices eg cordless phone base if you want to test wireless some more.
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Old 18-07-2013, 13:17
Dan Sette
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Thank you OP

I would never have though this. I suffer from the same problem. Every so often items that have flawlessly worked suddenly can't connect to my router (and find an alternative in BT Openzone.

I started by wondering wether it was my ipad / iphone. Then wondered if it happened when I was downloading Anytime TV programmes to the Sky box.

As I have a Panasonic TV, that has only recently been connected wirelessly to the router, it may be the problem.
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Old 18-07-2013, 17:04
shaun13
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Yes, I would try ethernet too and see what happens and move the router nearer and away from other devices eg cordless phone base if you want to test wireless some more.
Not sure I completely agree - My broadband connection can only manage about 2.5mbps so a wireless 'N' network (with no interference from elsewhere) should easily be able to handle that speed. When the TV did have a good day I managed to watch iPlayer and Netflix without any problems [not HD of course].

However, I did put in ducting in place for CAT5 cables but it will just be months yet before I get to that stage of the house project and actually run the cables and connect everything up. Hence the reason I wanted reliable Wifi for now.

Re. moving away from phones etc, as I said in the original post, when the TV gets things into this state switching it off immediately resolves the problem so I don't see how a DECT phone could be related.

Thanks to everyone else for suggestions and comments so far anyway.
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Old 18-07-2013, 17:09
chrisjr
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Here's a thought. Instead of a cable why not plug the TV's Ethernet port into a wireless access point?

Turn off the TV's WiFi and see what if any difference using something else to provide the WiFi link makes.
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Old 18-07-2013, 17:52
Orbitalzone
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If I wasn't able to run a cat5 network cable then I'd get a couple of low cost powerline network adaptors for about 25 a pair if you shop around and that would probably be the end of the issue.

I got a couple for my SkyHD box and they work very well. I got the WD 4 port version so I can plug in blu ray,. SkyHD and other devices.
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Old 18-07-2013, 17:53
shaun13
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Here's a thought. Instead of a cable why not plug the TV's Ethernet port into a wireless access point?

Turn off the TV's WiFi and see what if any difference using something else to provide the WiFi link makes.
Good idea but that would mean I'd have to buy some sort of wireless device to bridge between the TV (using it's wired Ethernet port) and the existing wireless network. If I have to spend money I may as well buy a new router.

I imagine that using the TV on an Ethernet cable will fix things and I'm just hoping it is a wireless issue - although that view is based purely on the (potentially flawed) premise that when the TV has screwed up the wireless network the other laptops can currently be made to work by plugging them in with a cable.
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Old 19-07-2013, 00:48
Winston_1
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Over the years I have seen all sorts of "odd" effects on wireless connected devises including the effect mentioned by the OP -- changing the router will cure it ( but the original router is not faulty as such )

But why are you bothering with wireless at all , it will be forever buffering etc -- you have a very hi end TV do the best for it and connect it via a Ethernet cable , if that is not possible use home plugs it virtually like a wired connection without running a cable
No not home plugs. They are slower than a wired connection and cause interference to your neighbours.
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Old 19-07-2013, 00:51
Winston_1
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If I wasn't able to run a cat5 network cable then I'd get a couple of low cost powerline network adaptors for about 25 a pair if you shop around and that would probably be the end of the issue.
Someone else wrongly suggesting this crap. DON'T use power line, it causes interference to your neighbours.
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Old 19-07-2013, 08:44
Nigel Goodwin
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Someone else wrongly suggesting this crap. DON'T use power line, it causes interference to your neighbours.
As usual, posting completely misleading and incorrect information.
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Old 19-07-2013, 09:32
call100
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Someone else wrongly suggesting this crap. DON'T use power line, it causes interference to your neighbours.
That is not a true statement...............
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Old 19-07-2013, 10:03
shaun13
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Thanks for the Powerline suggestions and follow-ups. I can see how it *might* cause interruption for neighbours if they have similar (but incompatible) equipment that operates over the mains and your house happens to be on the same phase as theirs, but in general I'd agree that it won't cause them any interference problems if not.

Anyway, Powerline Ethernet is not an option for me as I have X-10 home automation kit which would interfere with that.

Does anyone actually have a recent Panasonic TV on wifi that works flawlessly? Having said that, mine was fine again last night and this morning. The wnew firmware has definitely improved it a bit.
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Old 19-07-2013, 10:23
AlanO
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That is not a true statement...............
A bit like his earlier posting on this thread......
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Old 19-07-2013, 10:34
Winston_1
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As usual, posting completely misleading and incorrect information.
This is not misleading or incorrect. Homeplugs transmit on frequencies allocated to other users. They ALWAYS cause interference.
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Old 19-07-2013, 10:34
Winston_1
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That is not a true statement...............
There is plenty of evidence to show it is true.
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Old 19-07-2013, 10:35
iangrad
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I have installed and set up quite a few TV's that have wireless built in , about 70 % of which are Panasonic .

All the TV's have worked as intended but you will always be up against the speed limitation of a wireless connection .

I work on the theory that if all you want to do is look at photos from your PC or stream music or low definition video from a PC then wireless will do .

However if HD is streamed or your photo sizes are medium to large or your music is recorded at a higher bit rate then wireless is just not up to the job and cable connection is essential .

I have seen people move there router to just behind the TV just to avoid a long cable run and then connected there PC via wi-fi .
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Old 19-07-2013, 10:41
Winston_1
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Thanks for the Powerline suggestions and follow-ups. I can see how it *might* cause interruption for neighbours if they have similar (but incompatible) equipment that operates over the mains and your house happens to be on the same phase as theirs, but in general I'd agree that it won't cause them any interference problems if not.
No Shaun, the problem is not causing interference to other users over the mains. The problem is the mains wiring is not designed to be used in this way and so it turns your house into a big transmitter radiating interference up to 500metres away. Very unsociable (and illegal of course, to cause harmful interference).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/publications/whitepaper195
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Old 19-07-2013, 10:42
Nigel Goodwin
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This is not misleading or incorrect. Homeplugs transmit on frequencies allocated to other users. They ALWAYS cause interference.
No they don't, and NONE of the supposed 'evidence' you've ever posted supports your claims.
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Old 19-07-2013, 10:45
iangrad
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There is plenty of evidence to shown it is true.
How would this interference manifest itself ?

I have been in quite a few homes where I know that next door has "power line" adapters in use ( I know this as I installed them ) and there was no adverse effect on any other equipment -- this equipment included reception of DAB , FM & m & L wave radio , Freeview & Fv HD plus sundry PC,s & a tablet . all of which was OK .

This was in a small terraced row of houses so they were very near to each other .

I see you repeatedly advising people not to use adapters but could you explain why we should not continue to use them .
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Old 19-07-2013, 10:51
Winston_1
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No they don't, and NONE of the supposed 'evidence' you've ever posted supports your claims.
You just have your head stuck in the sand.

FACT. Homeplugs use frequencies from 3 to 30 MHz, or up to 300MHz in some cases.
FACT. None of these frequencies are allocated to Homeplugs.
FACT. Mains wiring is not balanced or screened or designed to carry RF so it will radiate if used in this way.
FACT. Radiated RF WILL cause interference to the authorised uses of there frequencies.

Many Homeplugs are not compliant to their specs, some have been proved to exceed this by a 1000 times. There are plenty of threads on this and other forums about this.

Why don't you just accept the proven facts?
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Old 19-07-2013, 11:03
Winston_1
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How would this interference manifest itself ?

I have been in quite a few homes where I know that next door has "power line" adapters in use ( I know this as I installed them ) and there was no adverse effect on any other equipment -- this equipment included reception of DAB , FM & m & L wave radio , Freeview & Fv HD plus sundry PC,s & a tablet . all of which was OK .

This was in a small terraced row of houses so they were very near to each other .

I see you repeatedly advising people not to use adapters but could you explain why we should not continue to use them .
Most Homeplugs operate over 3 to 30MHz. None of the equipment you mention uses these frequencies. The equipment affected in these cases is HF radio, used by SW broadcasters, maritime, emergency etc. The effect is a constant chirping over these bands which obliterates all but the strongest stations. Ofcom have had hundreds of Homeplugs removed after complaints.

The later gigabit types operate up to 300MHz, perhaps you did not use these, and can interfere with FM and obliterate DAB. Air traffic control is in this range as well and the CAA are rightly worried about it.

Gigabit types are not available in the US and Sweden has banned some types of Homeplug.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/publications/whitepaper195
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Old 19-07-2013, 11:13
Nigel Goodwin
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You just have your head stuck in the sand.

FACT. Homeplugs use frequencies from 3 to 30 MHz, or up to 300MHz in some cases.
FACT. None of these frequencies are allocated to Homeplugs.
FACT. Mains wiring is not balanced or screened or designed to carry RF so it will radiate if used in this way.
FACT. Radiated RF WILL cause interference to the authorised uses of there frequencies.

Many Homeplugs are not compliant to their specs, some have been proved to exceed this by a 1000 times. There are plenty of threads on this and other forums about this.

Why don't you just accept the proven facts?
Because you have NEVER provided any, every single supposed 'proof' you've posted doesn't support what you claim.

Your repeated typing of 'FACT' in capitals generally means the exact opposite.

What is your problem?, why this vendetta against perfectly legal, and almost entirely interference free, Homeplugs?. And why keep posting untruths all the time?.
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