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help needed with "dangerous" dog |
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#1 |
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 250
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help needed with "dangerous" dog
Excuse the ling winded post but I am after some advice
we have a rescue dog half lab half weimaraner . He will be two in Nov and we have had him since jan 2012. He has never been good with other dogs and we make sure he is on the lead when other dogs are present. At home he is as soppy as anything, you cant even give him a hug as he collapses on his back to have his belly stroked. He did used to go to training classes ( mainly to socialise with other dogs) but sine my wife and I separated that has gone down hill, recently when he went for a walk with my ex and her boyfriend they went to a pub and tied his lead the the leg of the table (but not on a short leash) and when the barmaid came to collect the glasses she scared the dog and he went for her and bit her on the face ( needing stiches and minor plastic surgery) my wife is now thinking of getting rid of the dog ( to some sort of security dog training people) but as I know it will devastate my boys who are already having to cope with a divorce and new house. so I said I woud look at other options. I was wondering if there were any "doggy boot camps" or residential training site out there? if so has anyone ever used them with their dogs and how did you get on. Any help and advice will be most appreciated THanks |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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I'm sorry op, I don't know what to say, I didn't want to read and run.
From experience once a dog has bitten like they, they do so again. We tried everything with our dobe, but she got grumpier and nastier as she go older. I'd be extremely worried about the situation, and I think you'd be lucky to find anyone to take the dog, we tried and no one would touch a dog that had tried to bite (she was muzzled so didn't actually bite) let alone caused serious damage. You could contact a behaviourist, see what thier thoughts are? |
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#3 |
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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Thanks for the reply
My ex was talking about sending him away to a firm some sort of security firm so I guess he would then be trained to be vicious I know you have to hard in situatuions like this but he is a such a soppy old thing until he gets threatened or surpised. I personally hate the idea of his being trained to be vicious and as he is a rescue dog we are obliged to return him to them. I guess if they cant rehome him they will put him down. I will look into some behavioural places thank |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sarf London
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What sort of security firm would use a crossbreed? Not a reputable one I'd think. However, if it is a proper security firm the dog won;t be trained to be vicious. It'll be trained. Many years ago I worked in my neighbours kennels were a load of Securicor GSD dogs were kenneled. They were not at all vicious. They were protective of their handlers when on the lead but once off and in the kennel as docile and soppy as any other dog.
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#5 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 622
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firstly the rescue center is partly to blame as he should have been thoroughly assessed before being put up for re-homing in the first instance .
secondly ask yourself if you could live with yourself if the dog done that to one of your children however much you believe he wouldnt do it , he has done it too a stranger so it is not beyond possibility of hi doing it to someone else . thirdly and if you really want to keep him you could start by making sure he has plenty of excercise and i mean plenty , this will help him immensely also you could make sure he is always wearing a correctly fitting muzzle . the dog classes cant do any harm either but this is the choice only you can make . personally i was in a similar situation , i got a staff that had been poorly treated and neglected by previous owner and was not fit for rehoming but as i knew the guy who run the kennels and we were both staffie lovers he was telling me about this dog . i have a lot of experience with this breed in particular , after almost four years of constant care and gentle encouragement my dog is nearly a normal dog , however he is not allowed near anyone who visits my home no matter who they are unless he is muzzled and also muzzled on walks . but in my company alone he is the biggest softy you could imagine . but i don't know how i would have felt if i had young children living here aswel , i really don't know . |
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#6 |
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 555
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Quote:
he went for her and bit her on the face ( needing stiches and minor plastic surgery)
Dog needs to be muzzled or destroyed, no way such a dangerous animal should be allowed to attack. What if that had been a child?
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#7 |
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: woking
Posts: 21,655
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You need to be sure what sort of aggression this is, if it's nervous aggression or he is vicious generally. Both can be worked on but not in the same ways, TBH no reputable rescue will take a biter, and it's irresponsible to rehome privately as it could be a disaster waiting to happen.
Sometimes you have to accept you cannot help a dog and that PTS is not the worse thing for them. A happy dog is not a biting dog so he isn't happy now. |
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#8 |
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Join Date: Jan 2013
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Most important thing to do here is muzzle him at all times he is in public! Noone can accuse you of not being in control or responsible if he is muzzled (I'm surprised that the police are not involved already but the next person may not be so understanding) and get him back to dog training as a matter of priority and ensure they are aware of the incident so they can concentrate on teaching you to deal with that situation and taking preventative measures.
Sadly, you will never be able to trust the dog again in public without a muzzle! Personally, what I think may have happened here is that the dog is confused about who his primary handler is, it was probably you before and now he is with his secondary handler and someone who it doesn't know or someone who doesn't have dog experience (perhaps)! However, a dog that bites as a reaction to any situation is a liability. Police or security firms wont take a biter (even though they train dogs to bite, they equally train them to bite on command and to release on command) and in most cases they go to a breeder who breeds specifically for that purpose (or they breed their own!) I'm sorry to hear this and good luck and just to let you know, I am qualified handler/trainer under BIPDT and before I lost my own dog to cancer, used to train people to train their dogs on a part time basis specialising in aggression prevention! |
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#9 |
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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It has only happened when he was asleep under the table in the pub and was disturbed by the barmaid. Its definitely nervous aggression.
It was the terms of having him from the rescue org that if we didn't want him/couldn't cope then he would have to back to them |
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#10 |
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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My mate just had his lab/poodle cross put down because it was a nervous biter. I think this is the only solution here as well. You have children and if you can’t guarantee the dog wont lash out then it must go. It would be wrong to pass your problem onto a rescue centre and I would certainly not entertain that dodgy sounding security firm – what kind of life would it have?
A dog that bites for a reason such as guarding or protecting something, or a dog that is goaded into biting is one thing. Nervous biting like this is unpredictable and extremely dangerous. As soft as my mates dog was he weighed 45kg and had a powerful set of jaws, when he bit (he did it three times) he made a mess. |
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#11 |
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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[quote=stringman;67215969]It has only happened when he was asleep under the table in the pub and was disturbed by the barmaid. Its definitely nervous aggression.
It was the terms of having him from the rescue org that if we didn't want him/couldn't cope then he would have to back to them[/QUOTE] Sorry but that is ridiculous. He is your dog not the rescue centres. You know him and they don’t. |
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#12 |
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Join Date: Jan 2013
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[quote=finbaar;67216489] Quote:
It has only happened when he was asleep under the table in the pub and was disturbed by the barmaid. Its definitely nervous aggression.
It was the terms of having him from the rescue org that if we didn't want him/couldn't cope then he would have to back to them[/QUOTE] Sorry but that is ridiculous. He is your dog not the rescue centres. You know him and they don’t. Check the paperwork but if you do take him back you have to be completely upfront about what has happened and it is a surety that the rescue org will euthanize! |
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#13 |
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: woking
Posts: 21,655
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Nervous aggression is far harder to deal with and with a large dog that has already bitten I would I am afraid say PTS as you can never trust him around children or other people.
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#14 |
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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It was on the paperwork that we have to return him.
it was more to protect the dog, so if we could get on with him then they would have a chance to rehome him with a suitable vetted family but can we try and keep the thread on track rather than going off an "who owns the dog" tangent |
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#15 |
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Join Date: May 2005
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You need to be honest with the rescue as they will need to PTS not try to pass him onto another person. If you ring them they may well suggest you PTS as it saves traumatising him more by taking him back to them.
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#16 |
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Join Date: Jan 2013
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Quote:
It was on the paperwork that we have to return him.
it was more to protect the dog, so if we could get on with him then they would have a chance to rehome him with a suitable vetted family but can we try and keep the thread on track rather than going off an "who owns the dog" tangent |
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#17 |
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Join Date: Jan 2013
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Quote:
You need to be honest with the rescue as they will need to PTS not try to pass him onto another person. If you ring them they may well suggest you PTS as it saves traumatising him more by taking him back to them.
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#18 |
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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I imagine a good rescue will assess him, he may be rehomable to a different type of home (adult only, rural).
Sorry you've had to go through this, it is deeply upsetting xx Send gentle scratches to your troubled dog too, sounds like he's been through the mill a bit
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#19 |
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Quote:
I imagine a good rescue will assess him, he may be rehomable to a different type of home (adult only, rural).
Sorry you've had to go through this, it is deeply upsetting xx Send gentle scratches to your troubled dog too, sounds like he's been through the mill a bit ![]() |
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#20 |
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Join Date: Feb 2012
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A security firm will not take an ex-pet - I suspect that may be the line she is spinning (perhaps for the kids sake) and this situation may well end up with the dog being PTS. However there are people who can help and there are "boot camp" type facilities in the UK. There used to be a good one in Cumbria (not sure if it is still there) but first thing is you need to find a behaviourist who can help evaluate the dog and determine what the cause is.
Different causes require different treatment but I would plead you do not just give up on the dog straight away. Before a decision to end its life is made you need to know the reasons for the bite and it may well be very treatable. Dont be scaremongered by these people who get hysterical and flap about ( the ones who spin the What if it was a child line - they are often easy to spot (not ALL the time) but generally have stuck up attitude, think such a thing as "devil dogs" exist (not devil owners) and they or at least a member of the family is a Daily Mail reader .... ) That is almost irrelevant, if you have a dog that is a "biter" it is up to you as a responsible owner to not put the dog in situations where it could / would react. As you do have kids who may not be mature enough to understand the situation i.e know how to behave around the dog and will never forget even for a second mid play, it may well be that you cannot keep the dog. This doesnt mean it should be condemed to death though - your ex was the one at fault from what i have read. I had a dog who was my world and had similar issues. She went to a bootcamp (the one in Cumbria) but they said she could not be changed and helped us rehome her to someone in the country who had a massive estate and would basically allow her to live out her days where she could not get into any trouble or cause anyone any harm. 14 years on my heart still breaks for that dog, god only knows what I would have felt if i had agreed to the people who just wanted her PTS with no questions asked. Also if the dog is killed what example does that set to your kids - something a bit of hassle, get rid instead of working on the problem to at least see if there is a solution. No doubt some of my comments are going to get those Mail readers hackles up but i hope you read this far and would suggest you check out the below site as a first port of call. Good luckhttp://www.capbt.org/findbehaviouris...p?mapregion=10 |
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#21 |
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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Quote:
If there is the slightest chance of aggression that may lead to biting then they'll euthanize and not rehome with anyone!
They found a home for a dog would left someone needing surgery and she is doing fine in a better home. They are assessed and a decision is taken from there. |
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#22 |
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: woking
Posts: 21,655
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Actually I have been caring for various dangerous dogs over the past 30 years, rescues who were nervous aggressive and very unpredictable or all too predictable in a couple of cases. Difference was I never allowed children near them, they were small enough for me to control and I managed them so they were never able to bite anyone in the time I had them. But if that had changed, if they had bitten or I couldn't have managed them safely I would have had them humanely euthanized for everyone's good including their own.
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#23 |
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 250
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Quote:
A security firm will not take an ex-pet - I suspect that may be the line she is spinning (perhaps for the kids sake) and this situation may well end up with the dog being PTS. However there are people who can help and there are "boot camp" type facilities in the UK. There used to be a good one in Cumbria (not sure if it is still there) but first thing is you need to find a behaviourist who can help evaluate the dog and determine what the cause is.
Different causes require different treatment but I would plead you do not just give up on the dog straight away. Before a decision to end its life is made you need to know the reasons for the bite and it may well be very treatable. Dont be scaremongered by these people who get hysterical and flap about ( the ones who spin the What if it was a child line - they are often easy to spot (not ALL the time) but generally have stuck up attitude, think such a thing as "devil dogs" exist (not devil owners) and they or at least a member of the family is a Daily Mail reader .... ) That is almost irrelevant, if you have a dog that is a "biter" it is up to you as a responsible owner to not put the dog in situations where it could / would react. As you do have kids who may not be mature enough to understand the situation i.e know how to behave around the dog and will never forget even for a second mid play, it may well be that you cannot keep the dog. This doesnt mean it should be condemed to death though - your ex was the one at fault from what i have read. I had a dog who was my world and had similar issues. She went to a bootcamp (the one in Cumbria) but they said she could not be changed and helped us rehome her to someone in the country who had a massive estate and would basically allow her to live out her days where she could not get into any trouble or cause anyone any harm. 14 years on my heart still breaks for that dog, god only knows what I would have felt if i had agreed to the people who just wanted her PTS with no questions asked. Also if the dog is killed what example does that set to your kids - something a bit of hassle, get rid instead of working on the problem to at least see if there is a solution. No doubt some of my comments are going to get those Mail readers hackles up but i hope you read this far and would suggest you check out the below site as a first port of call. Good luckhttp://www.capbt.org/findbehaviouris...p?mapregion=10 The kids are 15 and 12 and only thing he has done to hurt them is paws and elbows in sensitive ares when he tries to climb on their laps oh and when he collapses on your feet to have his belly rubbed !! I will investigate a behaviourist and "doggy boot camp" but sadly I feel my ex just thinks its all "too much" |
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#24 |
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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I was just wanting to let OP know that are options to explore
But I do appreciate euthanasia is not the worst fate in the world xx All the best OP. |
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#25 |
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Devon
Posts: 8,086
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Quote:
Not true with all rescues, certainly not at the rescue I'm invloved with.
They found a home for a dog would left someone needing surgery and she is doing fine in a better home. They are assessed and a decision is taken from there. To the op the dog will either need to be muzzled all the time when out or pts, I personally would not keep a nervous fear aggressive dog in a house with children, especially once it had bitten, dogs that go straight for a bite are dangerous, a nervous dog with good warning signals is a very different scenario |
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) That is almost irrelevant, if you have a dog that is a "biter" it is up to you as a responsible owner to not put the dog in situations where it could / would react. As you do have kids who may not be mature enough to understand the situation i.e know how to behave around the dog and will never forget even for a second mid play, it may well be that you cannot keep the dog. This doesnt mean it should be condemed to death though - your ex was the one at fault from what i have read. I had a dog who was my world and had similar issues. She went to a bootcamp (the one in Cumbria) but they said she could not be changed and helped us rehome her to someone in the country who had a massive estate and would basically allow her to live out her days where she could not get into any trouble or cause anyone any harm. 14 years on my heart still breaks for that dog, god only knows what I would have felt if i had agreed to the people who just wanted her PTS with no questions asked. Also if the dog is killed what example does that set to your kids - something a bit of hassle, get rid instead of working on the problem to at least see if there is a solution. No doubt some of my comments are going to get those Mail readers hackles up but i hope you read this far and would suggest you check out the below site as a first port of call. Good luck