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Old 19-07-2013, 16:46
molliepops
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honestly in the current climate with all dogs needing homes I find it hard to believe any rescue would rehome a biter rather than pts ( I find that quite irresponsible and definitely legally unsound), ours certainly wouldn't any dog that has bitten will not be taken in and if it does bite it is pts no ifs no buts. There are too many healthy well tempered dogs being pts for no reason.

To the op the dog will either need to be muzzled all the time when out or pts, I personally would not keep a nervous fear aggressive dog in a house with children, especially once it had bitten, dogs that go straight for a bite are dangerous, a nervous dog with good warning signals is a very different scenario
I couldn't agree more, no reputable rescue would consider rehoming a dog that was dangerous with a proven record of a bite. Think the OP has been lucky the person bitten hasn't taken action really.
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Old 19-07-2013, 17:43
Aarghawasp!
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I would second a cage muzzle and working with a good behaviourist to assess him and see if they believe it's something they can work on. Contact the rescue and explain - they should arrange contact with a reputable behaviourist.
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Old 19-07-2013, 17:47
2shy2007
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You need to be honest with the rescue as they will need to PTS not try to pass him onto another person. If you ring them they may well suggest you PTS as it saves traumatising him more by taking him back to them.
I agree with this , if you contact the rescue they need to know the full story, it is probably best for everyone of the poor dog is PTS, but if it ws in the paperwork then you should contact them first just to let them know.
It could be a child next.
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Old 19-07-2013, 17:54
wench
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My Dogs were put into a residential boot camp for training as our Victorian bulldog had ADHD and we weren't able to train him as well and he was then making our other dog pick up bad habits.

They were at a residential boot camp for 3 weeks and they did wonders, they left there highy trained and responding to all commands.

BUT, unfortunately my ex's family, who were given training on how to command our dogs, totally ignored all the training and resorted back to their bad habits (shouting and pulling at them during walks) that they soon reverted back to their old ways.

So you do have to keep up the training well after the boot camp.
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Old 19-07-2013, 21:44
JeffG1
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If there is the slightest chance of aggression that may lead to biting then they'll euthanize and not rehome with anyone!
Not true with all rescues, certainly not at the rescue I'm involved with.
Certainly not Dog's Trust who say they will never put a healthy dog down. I don't know what rescue the first poster is referring to. Doesn't sound like one I'd want to know about.
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Old 19-07-2013, 22:17
Pull2Open
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Certainly not Dog's Trust who say they will never put a healthy dog down. I don't know what rescue the first poster is referring to. Doesn't sound like one I'd want to know about.
One that wouldn't put a dog with aggression problems in a situation where it could cause serious injury to its 'owner' or others! I wonder if you would have the same attitude if they rehomed an aggressive that went on to kill a child. I doubt it!

Do you actually know anything about dogs or are you just repeating a charities sales pitch?

I suspect that the Dogs Trust wouldn't take a dog with aggression problems anyway as they assess dogs before taking them and expect a full history.
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Old 20-07-2013, 00:04
xdow
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One that wouldn't put a dog with aggression problems in a situation where it could cause serious injury to its 'owner' or others! I wonder if you would have the same attitude if they rehomed an aggressive that went on to kill a child. I doubt it!

Do you actually know anything about dogs or are you just repeating a charities sales pitch?

I suspect that the Dogs Trust wouldn't take a dog with aggression problems anyway as they assess dogs before taking them and expect a full history.
the dogs trust actually have a sanctuary for dogs who don't get on with humans at all, they feed and care for the dogs, but for most of their time they are left to their own devices with limited human interaction and only then with handlers they have become used to and grown to trust.

there are videos on youtube which show the handling they receive (vet checks and grooming whilst muzzled etc.)

http://www.dogstrust.org.uk/rehoming...x#.UenFI23lcyY
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Old 20-07-2013, 05:31
bazaar1
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Certainly not Dog's Trust who say they will never put a healthy dog down. I don't know what rescue the first poster is referring to. Doesn't sound like one I'd want to know about.
Problem with dogs trait is that they refuse most dogs, they only take those they know they can re home, hence being able to say they never put a healthy dog down. But thier refusal of many means lots go to pounds and are pets much quicker. There is a small centre that takes problem dogs but its mostly for publicity, they don't work with the dogs to try and prevent aggression or problems escalating, but rather leave them to it. Not the best environment IMO..

We are at least honest and say that we will do our best but there are some dogs we can't help. But before we consider euthanasia we out dogs through massive training plans to try and solve the problem. At the moment we have a sheep killer in, most rescues would consider him a risk, but we are working on finding the right owner.

Having said that, a biter is a different story, I'd be extremely wary of sending him to any rescue as its likely the nervous aggression will get worse in that environment, ending in euthanasia.

I do think the ops first point of call is s behaviourist.
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Old 20-07-2013, 13:53
GibsonGirl
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Please seek out a competent behaviourist and do NOT kill the dog. I am sick of dogs being killed because of behavioural problems. Dogs should be respected as living breathing beings and not disposable commodities. After all - kids aren't killed when they lash out and injure others.

As for those saying 'what if it was a child'. What nonsense. There are plenty of homes where a dog wouldn't come into contact with children.
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Old 20-07-2013, 13:57
molliepops
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What if was a child is very relevant, the dog was not at home it was out in public.

I too am sick of dogs being PTS but behaviour like this is extremely hard to manage and you cannot simply rehome it knowing what it has done.

I am amazed the police have not been involved and insisted it be PTS.

Dogs are wonderful creatures but if you cannot protect people then you have to be sensible and take responsibility.
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Old 20-07-2013, 14:04
Pull2Open
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Please seek out a competent behaviourist and do NOT kill the dog. I am sick of dogs being killed because of behavioural problems. Dogs should be respected as living breathing beings and not disposable commodities. After all - kids aren't killed when they lash out and injure others.

As for those saying 'what if it was a child'. What nonsense. There are plenty of homes where a dog wouldn't come into contact with children.
A very naïve blinkered view I'm afraid!

We're not talking about a dog with just behavioural problems, we're talking about a biter. Its very different. A biter can kill, not only children, but adults. Just to put it into perspective, an average sized dog has enough power per square inch in its bite to crush a sheep's skull!

If people want to keep a dog like this, it'll have to be cage muzzled whenever it is in public or if the owner has visitors! It can never be trusted!

The safety of people always comes first, even if it means that the dog needs to be euthanized!
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Old 20-07-2013, 14:11
Pull2Open
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What if was a child is very relevant, the dog was not at home it was out in public.

I too am sick of dogs being PTS but behaviour like this is extremely hard to manage and you cannot simply rehome it knowing what it has done.

I am amazed the police have not been involved and insisted it be PTS.

Dogs are wonderful creatures but if you cannot protect people then you have to be sensible and take responsibility.
A very sensible and clearly knowledgeable response!

I too love dogs too, I've worked with them professionally for years from police dog handling to private training and a dog that displays this sort of behaviour is an enormous liability!
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Old 20-07-2013, 14:57
GibsonGirl
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What if was a child is very relevant, the dog was not at home it was out in public.

I too am sick of dogs being PTS but behaviour like this is extremely hard to manage and you cannot simply rehome it knowing what it has done.

I am amazed the police have not been involved and insisted it be PTS.

Dogs are wonderful creatures but if you cannot protect people then you have to be sensible and take responsibility.
I have to say I find some of that quite hard to believe. You said on a previous thread that you have a thing against Mastiffs (and I believe Staffies), but you are now saying that dogs are wonderful.You also said that if your Golden Retriever was too strong for you, you would have had her killed. Now you are saying you are sick of dogs being killed.

And no - dogs should NOT be killed because of behavioural problems. Unless it is due to a neurological disorder.
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Old 20-07-2013, 15:03
GibsonGirl
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A very naïve blinkered view I'm afraid!

We're not talking about a dog with just behavioural problems, we're talking about a biter. Its very different. A biter can kill, not only children, but adults. Just to put it into perspective, an average sized dog has enough power per square inch in its bite to crush a sheep's skull!

If people want to keep a dog like this, it'll have to be cage muzzled whenever it is in public or if the owner has visitors! It can never be trusted!

The safety of people always comes first, even if it means that the dog needs to be euthanized!
And what makes humans more important? There is actually no scientific evidence to prove that they are. It is only the arrogance of some humans that makes certain individuals think that humans are the be all and end all. Besides, it is sheer hypocrisy to apply that kind of logic (killing a dog because of behavioural issues), but not doing the same with humans.
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Old 20-07-2013, 15:13
AlphaK
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To anyone on this thread who has commented on the rescue having apparently re-homed a dog with aggression it should be noted that the OP has had the dog since it was 2-3 months old .
If it has developed fear aggression then the rescue are in no way culpable but the OP could be.
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Old 20-07-2013, 15:17
molliepops
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I have to say I find some of that quite hard to believe. You said on a previous thread that you have a thing against Mastiffs (and I believe Staffies), but you are now saying that dogs are wonderful.You also said that if your Golden Retriever was too strong for you, you would have had her killed. Now you are saying you are sick of dogs being killed.

And no - dogs should NOT be killed because of behavioural problems. Unless it is due to a neurological disorder.
I am scared of them yes due to the unprovoked attack on my poor old dog and having been bitten by the same dog myself.

It was a staffie x mastiff so both dogs make me nervous. Actually it's the owners need PTS as they have no control over the thing. Unless you have seen an attack like I had to see you won't understand.

Some dogs are beyond help and dangerous if you don't agree with that then I suggest you have led a sheltered life.

But broadly speaking I love dogs, ones who are safe and friendly and pose no threat to people and other dogs.
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Old 20-07-2013, 15:17
GibsonGirl
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I have just had another look at the original poster's posts. Apparently the dog had been sleeping, so could it be the dog was startled and disoriented when he woke up, and bit out of confusion? This is something that has happened before and might be the case here.
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Old 20-07-2013, 15:27
mrsgrumpy49
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I was once bitten on the leg by a snarly little terrier.
All I did was commit the sin of walking past. Fortunately it wasn't a big or powerful dog!
The owner was only mildly apologetic. Oh she's done that a few times she said
It was probably 'nervous aggression' in that case too but the fact is a biter is a biter.
In this particular case I'm surprised the incident wasn't reported and the dog euthanized.
Was it an isolated incident?
Security firms want dogs they can train not dogs with a tendency to savage. Whether you can train aggression out of a dog I don't know. but I would be interested to know the outcome..
In the meantime a muzzle as suggested. I would also bear in mind that if even a burglar gets attacked by the family dog, it's the owner/dog who will be considered in the wrong!
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Old 20-07-2013, 15:30
GibsonGirl
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I am scared of them yes due to the unprovoked attack on my poor old dog and having been bitten by the same dog myself.

It was a staffie x mastiff so both dogs make me nervous. Actually it's the owners need PTS as they have no control over the thing. Unless you have seen an attack like I had to see you won't understand.

Some dogs are beyond help and dangerous if you don't agree with that then I suggest you have led a sheltered life.

But broadly speaking I love dogs, ones who are safe and friendly and pose no threat to people and other dogs.
I have had a look through some of your older posts and it would seem you would rather have a dog (even your own) killed than to send them to somebody like Cesar Millan.

My own dog was attacked by a Staffie mix a couple of weeks ago when my Mum took him out for his morning walk. The other dog had come charging round the corner and went straight for him. Apparently the dog has attacked one of the neighbour's dogs before and the owner told both them and my Mum and I that the dog would always be kept on a lead, but that has not been the case. Thankfully my dog was okay (however the dog had bitten through his collar) and the police have not been informed (due to knowing what would likely happen to the dog). The dog should NOT be killed, but sent to a competent behaviourist. And the attack has NOT put either my Mum or I off Staffies.
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Old 20-07-2013, 15:43
molliepops
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Indeed I would rather hold my dog lovingly and be there while he/she were humanely euthanized than give them to Milan to torture.


And good for you for being fearless I have to walk past this dog as it is in our block of flats several times a day, with an old dog who is going out of her mind with fear and a tiny dog who would stand no chance against it. Have the scar on my leg to know how much it hurts when it bites.


But why you are trawling back through my posts when my dogs have never bitten anyone and are under control at all times puzzles me. My dogs are not the problem here.
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Old 20-07-2013, 15:51
Pull2Open
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And what makes humans more important? There is actually no scientific evidence to prove that they are. It is only the arrogance of some humans that makes certain individuals think that humans are the be all and end all. Besides, it is sheer hypocrisy to apply that kind of logic (killing a dog because of behavioural issues), but not doing the same with humans.
OFFS, If you want to have a philosophical discussion about the meaning of life and what species is better than the other I suggest you start a new thread!

However, your 'what makes people more important than dogs?' remark leaves me speechless and more resolute that you are a very naïve and frankly, have a very dangerous and inept attitude to dog ownership!! Leave discussions about dog psychology and dealing with dangerous dogs to those with actually know what they are talking about!
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Old 20-07-2013, 15:55
Pull2Open
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I have had a look through some of your older posts and it would seem you would rather have a dog (even your own) killed than to send them to somebody like Cesar Millan.

My own dog was attacked by a Staffie mix a couple of weeks ago when my Mum took him out for his morning walk. The other dog had come charging round the corner and went straight for him. Apparently the dog has attacked one of the neighbour's dogs before and the owner told both them and my Mum and I that the dog would always be kept on a lead, but that has not been the case. Thankfully my dog was okay (however the dog had bitten through his collar) and the police have not been informed (due to knowing what would likely happen to the dog). The dog should NOT be killed, but sent to a competent behaviourist. And the attack has NOT put either my Mum or I off Staffies.
If it was dog on dog attacked the police would not be interested anyway! If you have the same attitude to a dog injuring a person, all I can say is, people like you should not be allowed to own them! You are dangerously irresponsible!
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Old 20-07-2013, 16:02
molliepops
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If it was dog on dog attacked the police would not be interested anyway! If you have the same attitude to a dog injuring a person, all I can say is, people like you should not be allowed to own them! You are dangerously irresponsible!
That's the main problem dogs have IMO, people who own them not knowing what they have taken on and failing to be responsible with them.

OP I think has had good advise from several people I hope they hear and take action on it.
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Old 20-07-2013, 16:20
TWS
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Please seek out a competent behaviourist and do NOT kill the dog. I am sick of dogs being killed because of behavioural problems. Dogs should be respected as living breathing beings and not disposable commodities. After all - kids aren't killed when they lash out and injure others.

As for those saying 'what if it was a child'. What nonsense. There are plenty of homes where a dog wouldn't come into contact with children.
This is a very naive simplistic view hundreds of thousands of dogs are pts every year and a lot of those are healthy dogs with no issues.

Some dogs with behavioural problems can be helped however fear aggressive dogs with no warning signals that go straight to a bite are blooming dangerous and need to be kept out of public or muzzled and leashed in public, muzzled in the house or contained should you have visitors, also the op has kids which makes this a lot more of an issue.

Noone is saying dogs like this can't be kept what we are saying is there is no room for mistakes and human lives children especially do take precedence whether you like it or not. If you are upset about dogs being pts start advocating for tougher breeding legislation something that can help.
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Old 20-07-2013, 16:22
GibsonGirl
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OFFS, If you want to have a philosophical discussion about the meaning of life and what species is better than the other I suggest you start a new thread!

However, your 'what makes people more important than dogs?' remark leaves me speechless and more resolute that you are a very naïve and frankly, have a very dangerous and inept attitude to dog ownership!! Leave discussions about dog psychology and dealing with dangerous dogs to those with actually know what they are talking about!
Typical response from somebody spouting humans are vastly superior without having a single shred of evidence to prove it!

I suppose you're somebody who only believes in positive reinforcement and when that doesn't work it's let's kill the dog! What a narrow minded attitude that is!
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