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Old 27-07-2015, 16:05
Goaty
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What the deal about Caitlyn Jenner became icon or champion?

Too many stories about her, make it sounds like she is first transgender.

It get really silly now.
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Old 27-07-2015, 16:08
Joel's dad
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I think it's a good thing. Highlights a lot of issues. I came out as gay when I was 32 having been married and having children. Hardest thing I've ever done. I can only imagine how hard it was for her. People put you in this box that you try to conform to. But in reality ain't no one box for all.
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Old 27-07-2015, 16:17
Tanzie
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I think it's a good thing. Highlights a lot of issues. I came out as gay when I was 32 having been married and having children. Hardest thing I've ever done. I can only imagine how hard it was for her. People put you in this box that you try to conform to. But in reality ain't no one box for all.


I can't imagine how difficult it must have been for you, but I presume that when you came out you weren't being paid millions of pounds for a film crew to follow you on your journey.
I think that's my main problem with Caitlyn Jenner. I completely agree that highlighting the issue can only be a good thing. But unfortunately the whole thing seems to have turned into a ridiculous circus, and it's much more about highlighting Caitlyn than highlighting the incredibly difficult issues facing transgender people.
And no, she's not an icon, or a heroine or a champion.
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Old 27-07-2015, 16:19
pearlsandplums
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I think she only had the sex change to get a tv show out of it (JOKE)
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Old 27-07-2015, 16:24
Fairyprincess0
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I'm trans. And while I agree there is still a sideshow element to ms. Jenner, I really have a personal need to see more transpeople in the public eye.

Where are the trans newsreaders and gameshow hosts? Where are the trans-oriented tv shows that treat the subject as a novelty.

The subject of transgender is multi-faceted and has a richer culture then most realise. Most people have quite got a grasp of the depth of it yet. Thats why we need better exposure...
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Old 27-07-2015, 16:35
Tanzie
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I'm trans. And while I agree there is still a sideshow element to ms. Jenner, I really have a personal need to see more transpeople in the public eye.

Where are the trans newsreaders and gameshow hosts? Where are the trans-oriented tv shows that treat the subject as a novelty.

The subject of transgender is multi-faceted and has a richer culture then most realise. Most people have quite got a grasp of the depth of it yet. Thats why we need better exposure...

I can completely see where you're coming from. But there's just something about the whole Caitlyn Jenner circus that makes me feel that she is doing more harm than good for the image of transgender people.
Aren't "we" ( as in non-transgender people ) supposed to treat transgender people in exactly the same way as everyone else? As though you are normal and ordinary, and just like the rest of us?
I understand that as a trans person you would want to see people on tv who represent you, and who you are. But wouldn't there be an issue of tokenism about it? Aren't most trans people just ordinary people doing normal jobs? Obviously you need more exposure. I just don't see how Caitlyn Jenner posing in her underwear on the cover of a magazine is necessarily the kind of exposure that will help people have a better understanding of the trans community as a whole.
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Old 27-07-2015, 16:45
Fairyprincess0
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I agree. I want trans-people too be seen as 'unremarkable'.

But there should defiantly be tv that reflects me. Netflixs seems to be the place for that at the mo. Orange is the new black, transparent, and sens8 all have trans themes, and trans-actors too.

But, I'm not getting netflixs right now....
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Old 27-07-2015, 16:49
MinnieMinz
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What the deal about Caitlyn Jenner became icon or champion?

Too many stories about her, make it sounds like she is first transgender.

It get really silly now.
I kind of agree a bit. Anyone who is trans/gay/in a minority should be treated equally and fairly the same as everyone else. That's the important bit for me "equality" shouldn't mean special treatment though. Newreaders/actors/policiticans it should be the best person for the job and having nothing to do with their sexuality/sexual orientation, sex or their race.
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Old 27-07-2015, 17:14
Patchbuncle
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There is a trans lady in the small North Yorkshire town where I live. Her clothes, shoes etc all come from a charity shop. She has one wig and has had no surgery to feminise her facial features, she gets by on benefits. I think that she is far braver than CJ.

I am getting quite uncomfortable at just how much of CJ's transition is being televised to all and sundry. Surely, some moments should be private, such as family members seeing CJ for the first time?
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Old 27-07-2015, 17:32
SpaceCake
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I'm sick of hearing about it. Good on her, but give it a rest now.
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Old 27-07-2015, 17:57
viva.espana
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There is a trans lady in the small North Yorkshire town where I live. Her clothes, shoes etc all come from a charity shop. She has one wig and has had no surgery to feminise her facial features, she gets by on benefits. I think that she is far braver than CJ.
Couldn't agree more. That's takes real courage and is far more worthy of note than a pampered, selfish, self-involved diva who is more interested in how she looks than the cause she's claiming to represent.

In terms of celeb representation, Laverne Cox is a far more credible example of someone who has not just worked hard to get where she currently is, but has also been a shining light in terms of the ongoing harsh realities that transgendered people face.
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Old 27-07-2015, 18:01
Patchbuncle
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Couldn't agree more. That's takes real courage and is far more worthy of note than a pampered, selfish, self-involved diva who is more interested in how she looks than the cause she's claiming to represent.

In terms of celeb representation, Laverne Cox is a far more credible example of someone who has not just worked hard to get where she currently is, but has also been a shining light in terms of the ongoing harsh realities that transgendered people face.
I love Laverne Cox. I spent ages wondering how they got her to look so masculine for Sophia's back story. Until, that is, I read that it was her brother, doh!
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Old 27-07-2015, 18:16
Tanzie
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There is a trans lady in the small North Yorkshire town where I live. Her clothes, shoes etc all come from a charity shop. She has one wig and has had no surgery to feminise her facial features, she gets by on benefits. I think that she is far braver than CJ.

I am getting quite uncomfortable at just how much of CJ's transition is being televised to all and sundry. Surely, some moments should be private, such as family members seeing CJ for the first time?


I couldn't agree more. And surely the lady who lives in your town is far more representative of the experience of normal trans people than Caitlyn Jenner.
Coming from the family of media whores that she does, I suppose it was almost inevitable that Caitlyn's transition would be filmed and sold to the highest bidder. But it's just made the whole thing seem so cheap and superficial and tawdry, when it really isn't.
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Old 27-07-2015, 18:44
haphash
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I wish anyone who is trans-gender well and fully respect their choice. Having said that I am sick to death of Caitlyn Jenner being thrust down our throats by this media frenzy already and if I'm really honest it doesn't actually interest me very much at all. It seems like something that should be private and not splashed all over the media.

As someone else has already pointed out being wealthy means that Caitlyn can afford the best in cosmetic surgery, therapies, clothes etc. Having a huge advantage over anyone from a more ordinary background who doesn't.

I don't know if this is doing a favour for trans gender people or not because to me it just comes across as more of the usual Kardashian headline grabbing / publicity seeking.
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Old 27-07-2015, 20:14
Ann_Tenna
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I wish Caitlyn Jenner well, too, but like a couple of other members here, I'm tired of hearing about her. I just scroll by any Caitlyn Jenner articles now.

And no, it isn't as if she is the first transgendered person on the block.

By crikey, I'm old! I remember sneaking the paperback "Christine Jorgensen: A Personal Biography" out of my mother's room when I was a kid and reading it. The book was published in 1967.
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Old 28-07-2015, 00:17
SuperAPJ
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I think good for her, it took a lot of courage to come out as transgender but it should be her own personal triumph, not something played out in front of the cameras as another act in the Kardashian/Jenner media frenzy. Anyone in her situation is equally brave, so I'm tired of the media making a spectacle out of her in particular.
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Old 28-07-2015, 00:30
j4Rose
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I think the cover of Vanity Fair was silly - the image was so air brushed that it looked very little like her.
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Old 28-07-2015, 08:20
donna255
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There is one transgender person who seems to be at my city centre bus stop(no idea where they actually live), no surgery still looks quite masculine. They are quite well known as when three of more gang of young men pass, they shout out, "Hey Jim!" This person just puts their head down and ignores them.

There are also a few transgender who come to the MAC counter and look at makeup. For some reason they dress like Ann Widicombe (sp), I am not sure if they want to dress like their mothers??? Their dress sense just seems to be based on how 70 year old woman wears. No way in hell do any look anything like the US glossy Caithlyn or the woman in Orange. Perhaps this will rub off and they will start dressing more like their age and not like their mother?
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Old 28-07-2015, 10:06
The Prumeister
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There is one transgender person who seems to be at my city centre bus stop(no idea where they actually live), no surgery still looks quite masculine. They are quite well known as when three of more gang of young men pass, they shout out, "Hey Jim!" This person just puts their head down and ignores them.

There are also a few transgender who come to the MAC counter and look at makeup. For some reason they dress like Ann Widicombe (sp), I am not sure if they want to dress like their mothers??? Their dress sense just seems to be based on how 70 year old woman wears. No way in hell do any look anything like the US glossy Caithlyn or the woman in Orange. Perhaps this will rub off and they will start dressing more like their age and not like their mother?

With respect - it's not a fashion show; it's a complex issue where people are trying to gain equality and respect. This is the problem that coverage of Caitlyn is garnering - it's all about the clothes, the glamour etc and there seems little focus on anything else.
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Old 28-07-2015, 10:13
Joel's dad
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I can't imagine how difficult it must have been for you, but I presume that when you came out you weren't being paid millions of pounds for a film crew to follow you on your journey.
I think that's my main problem with Caitlyn Jenner. I completely agree that highlighting the issue can only be a good thing. But unfortunately the whole thing seems to have turned into a ridiculous circus, and it's much more about highlighting Caitlyn than highlighting the incredibly difficult issues facing transgender people.
And no, she's not an icon, or a heroine or a champion.
The thing is, if there had been someone before me filmed and this subject documented I may have come out earlier saving more heartbreak.
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Old 28-07-2015, 12:40
MinnieMinz
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I watched "I am Cait" and was impressed (at first) with how she want's to help change peoples perceptions and support others. Then they used the death of a 14yr old with gender issues suicide. Cait was talking about wanting to help them, reaching out to them and then went to visit them and talk and went to a balloon release ceremony with them. If she had done all that off camera I'd have respected it, but it just screamed "ratings".
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Old 28-07-2015, 12:55
Tanzie
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The thing is, if there had been someone before me filmed and this subject documented I may have come out earlier saving more heartbreak.

You obviously know far more about this than I do, so I do feel slightly uncomfortable about disagreeing with you.
For me, raising awareness of the issues of trans people isn't the problem. The less ignorance there is, then hopefully trans people will be better understood, and subjected to less intolerance and discrimination. And it's not the filming that bothers me.
For me, it's Caitlyn Jenner herself that I have an issue with. The whole thing seems to have become an endless parade of glamorous magazine covers, designer outfits and award ceremonies. And I would assume that this bears no resemblance whatsoever to the experiences of normal trans people, who don't have access to the resources that Caitlyn does. I would much rather see a documentary about normal, ordinary trans people, and their experiences, and the difficulties they face just getting on with their lives. Surely this would help far more people than Caitlyn Jenner. Wouldn't it be more useful to see how everyday trans people cope, rather than a multimillionaire media tart?
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Old 28-07-2015, 13:04
liftmaster
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I agree. I want trans-people too be seen as 'unremarkable'.

But there should defiantly be tv that reflects me. Netflixs seems to be the place for that at the mo. Orange is the new black, transparent, and sens8 all have trans themes, and trans-actors too.

But, I'm not getting netflixs right now....
I believe gaining acceptance is going to take another generation at least. just because they are 'out there' is not going to change, what is currently an ingrained attitude, of the majority.

It is the same with those that were saying how the paralympics will change the perception of disability and make people far more tolerant. Figures for hate crimes against the disabled have risen dramatically.

i have no problem with people being what they want to be, but I think this is still a massive uphill battle and will be for a long time.
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Old 28-07-2015, 13:40
viva.espana
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You obviously know far more about this than I do, so I do feel slightly uncomfortable about disagreeing with you.
For me, raising awareness of the issues of trans people isn't the problem. The less ignorance there is, then hopefully trans people will be better understood, and subjected to less intolerance and discrimination. And it's not the filming that bothers me.
For me, it's Caitlyn Jenner herself that I have an issue with. The whole thing seems to have become an endless parade of glamorous magazine covers, designer outfits and award ceremonies. And I would assume that this bears no resemblance whatsoever to the experiences of normal trans people, who don't have access to the resources that Caitlyn does. I would much rather see a documentary about normal, ordinary trans people, and their experiences, and the difficulties they face just getting on with their lives. Surely this would help far more people than Caitlyn Jenner. Wouldn't it be more useful to see how everyday trans people cope, rather than a multimillionaire media tart?
Agree. The recent Kellie Maloney doc was really good and far more representative I would imagine of the everyday struggle and process than anything Caitlin Jenner can or will ever do. I wasn't much of a Kellie fan (her personality, that is) prior to the doc but I came away with a much more rounded and likeable picture of her and a lot of respect for her. And unlike Jenner, there was nothing remotely glamorous about the very harrowing process Kellie underwent to get to where she now is. Definitely worth a watch for anyone who hasn't seen it.
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Old 28-07-2015, 21:00
louise1966
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I cannot comprehend any reason for wanting to reveal your innermost emotions to millions of strangers. Bruce Jenner is profiting financially, from his decision to change sex, and become Caitlyn. He is, I am sure, being well paid to allow cameras to witness every second of his existence. To document his 'ordeal'.
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