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Old 02-10-2015, 14:47
RichmondBlue
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I'm Punjabi Sikh and am pleased they told the events from the womens perspectives. I've heard the story about the beheading of the village girls before and at the time I thought why didn't the men go out and fight the Muslims and risk their lives???? I also feel the story is always told from the Indian perspective, Muslims suffered identically. However loved this episode and it was very authentic in terms of the places she visited. Really liking Anita and can totally relate to her! Always asking why!!!!
That was my question as well. I just can't imagine killing my own child. I think dying trying to protect them would have been an easier choice. But then I suppose your wife and children would have been left to suffer rape and possibly an even slower death.
All in the name of religion again, we learn nothing from history.
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Old 02-10-2015, 14:50
ClarkF1
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I was surprised that she was not directed to look at the scrolls of family history earlier in the programme because they have been featured on several episodes of Who Do You Think You Are previously. I would not be surprised if the programme's researchers had not used them and then based their research on them.
Excellent programme. I knew a little about partition but didn't expect some of those revelations.

As for the scrolls, I expect they decided it would be a great way to end the programme. Update the family history and light a candle for the family....and it was.
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Old 02-10-2015, 16:55
lundavra
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I'm Punjabi Sikh and am pleased they told the events from the womens perspectives. I've heard the story about the beheading of the village girls before and at the time I thought why didn't the men go out and fight the Muslims and risk their lives???? I also feel the story is always told from the Indian perspective, Muslims suffered identically. However loved this episode and it was very authentic in terms of the places she visited. Really liking Anita and can totally relate to her! Always asking why!!!!
Weren't they often outnumbered in one particular area?

They did say that it worked both ways and that in other areas Hindus and Sikhs were killing Muslims.
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Old 02-10-2015, 16:58
lundavra
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That was my question as well. I just can't imagine killing my own child. I think dying trying to protect them would have been an easier choice. But then I suppose your wife and children would have been left to suffer rape and possibly an even slower death.
All in the name of religion again, we learn nothing from history.
I suppose it fits with 'honour killings' still happening today where women are murdered because they are considered to have dishonoured their family.

Very significant that it was remembered in the family that the son had been killed but the daughter had been forgotten.
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Old 02-10-2015, 19:08
seejay63
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I suppose it fits with 'honour killings' still happening today
I hate that phrase. When the press use it it's almost like they're allowing the murderers to justify their actions. They should just call it cold-blooded murder as that's what it is.
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Old 02-10-2015, 20:53
lundavra
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I hate that phrase. When the press use it it's almost like they're allowing the murderers to justify their actions. They should just call it cold-blooded murder as that's what it is.
But it is one specific type of cold-blooded murder and needs a term to distinguish from other cold-blooded murders.
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Old 02-10-2015, 21:23
Rosebuddy
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That was my question as well. I just can't imagine killing my own child. I think dying trying to protect them would have been an easier choice. But then I suppose your wife and children would have been left to suffer rape and possibly an even slower death.
All in the name of religion again, we learn nothing from history.
I think her outrage was saved for the " brave " men of the village who would rather kill their wives and daughters than have the very great risk of them surviving a rape [ and therefore be worthless as a wife and a non-virgin daughter ] by men of a different religion.

Husband , uncles and brothers in Manchuria , Russia and Germany in the 1930s-40s didn't summarily execute their wives and sisters when they had been raped and abused by soldiers of an invading army.
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Old 02-10-2015, 22:41
seejay63
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But it is one specific type of cold-blooded murder and needs a term to distinguish from other cold-blooded murders.
'Honour killing' isn't the right phrase to use as it makes it sound almost acceptable.
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Old 03-10-2015, 00:44
lundavra
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'Honour killing' isn't the right phrase to use as it makes it sound almost acceptable.
What alternative do you suggest? It needs a specific description to identify it.
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Old 03-10-2015, 08:42
Jo09
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I suppose it fits with 'honour killings' still happening today where women are murdered because they are considered to have dishonoured their family.

Very significant that it was remembered in the family that the son had been killed but the daughter had been forgotten .
Another possibility is their dad (Anita's grandad) never talked about it but they saw the picture which is why they knew there was a boy.
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Old 03-10-2015, 09:07
seejay63
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What alternative do you suggest? It needs a specific description to identify it.
It's difficult, but I agree with this article where it says "The term "honour killing" not only cedes too much power to the perpetrator, but is offensive to survivors and women."
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Old 03-10-2015, 09:20
lundavra
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It's difficult, but I agree with this article where it says "The term "honour killing" not only cedes too much power to the perpetrator, but is offensive to survivors and women."
But it needs some way of differentiating it as a particularly nasty type of murder.

I wonder if a term could be found to include parents killing children after a divorce as a way of getting revenge against their ex-partner. There are similarities between the two types of murder.
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Old 06-10-2015, 13:05
Tony Richards
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Where's the last programme in the series with Frances de la Tour? Next week The Apprentice starts its run at 9.00 on Thursday?
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Old 06-10-2015, 13:07
kwynne42
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Where's the last programme in the series with Frances de la Tour? Next week The Apprentice starts its run at 9.00 on Thursday?
2 Apprentice eps that week she one the week after.
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Old 09-10-2015, 10:31
seejay63
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I'm just watching the Frank Gardner episode which I'm really enjoying. However I'm surprised at his ignorance when he didn't appear to know that Edward I was a direct descendant of William the Conqueror!
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Old 09-10-2015, 20:34
daisydee
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daisydee.
Not quite right.
It affects people from Scandinvia & northern europe so got called Viking disease
Oh right.
I saw a hand surgeon recently who is an expert in dealing with this condition, and he imparted this information to me. For the moment, I have decided not to have the operation as the success rate is not good.
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Old 21-10-2015, 04:31
Jimmy Connors
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Nobody watched the Mark Gatiss episode?

Can't say I am surprised - it was (for me) probably the most boring ep of the entire series.
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Old 21-10-2015, 09:14
lundavra
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Nobody watched the Mark Gatiss episode?

Can't say I am surprised - it was (for me) probably the most boring ep of the entire series.
I found it quite interesting, perhaps dragged out a bit longer than necessary. They kept mentioning the place where his ancestor lived and I was expecting to see it but they left it to the end.
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Old 22-10-2015, 15:55
anyonefortennis
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Frances de la Tour tonight. Should be good.
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Old 22-10-2015, 21:20
Evo102
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Nobody watched the Mark Gatiss episode?

Can't say I am surprised - it was (for me) probably the most boring ep of the entire series.
Yes, an hour on the one side of the family was a bit much. I'd have liked to have known about the Gatiss side, quite an unusual name alone.

Frances de la Tour tonight. Should be good.
"Lady Gardener" and not a titter from anybody.
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Old 23-10-2015, 13:38
RobMiles
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"Lady Gardener" and not a titter from anybody.
I noticed her two brothers looking at each other and giggling at that point. We also thought it was hysterical when Francis was looking at that drawing and mentioned one lady's 'huge muff!"
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Old 23-10-2015, 16:15
lindenlea
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I thought that was an interesting episode to finish the series.


If Frances DeLaTour had watched The Scandalous Lady W before recording WDYTYA she would have known all about criminal conversation!
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Old 23-10-2015, 16:17
lundavra
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I thought that was an interesting episode to finish the series.

If Frances DeLaTour had watched The Scandalous Lady W before recording WDYTYA she would have known all about criminal conversation!
I found her a bit irritating. I just wish they would have an expert with the subject all the way through the programme rather than leave them to uninformed speculation when they are often talk complete rubbish.
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Old 23-10-2015, 16:31
anyonefortennis
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I found her a bit irritating. I just wish they would have an expert with the subject all the way through the programme rather than leave them to uninformed speculation when they are often talk complete rubbish.
She seemed obsessed about finding aristocracy in her family. And then said she had ambivalent feelings about aristocrats.
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Old 23-10-2015, 19:04
valkay
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She seemed obsessed about finding aristocracy in her family. And then said she had ambivalent feelings about aristocrats.
When they showed her the portrait of her 4x gt grandmother next to a portrait of her father, she could have said that was her 5xgt grandfather. On previous editions they have said that an aristocrat is a portal ancestor which opens up the tree back many generations even to the Normans, or in one case back to Adam and Eve.
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