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AT LAST! Moffat promises to complete arcs / close plots in Xmas Special.


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Old 26-07-2013, 20:52
Sh'boobie
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Hallelujah!!!
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Old 26-07-2013, 20:55
SilenceWillFall
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"to SOME of those questions."
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Old 26-07-2013, 21:03
Abomination
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Interesting interview... hopefully we will get some long-standing closure. Also of note is that it seems that River Song's story is well and truly over now. I don't think we'll see her back, unless he's lying his ar** off again and she's lined up for one of the two remaining episodes this year

The interview also got me thinking. I think the Series 7 plot of entering the Doctor's time stream would have been more suited to River - it would have given her access to his entire timeline, would have offered some real closure for the character and would have meant she got more screentime in the final story - we'd finally find out why she meant so much to The Doctor, and how she always knew so much. A shame they never took that route.
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Old 26-07-2013, 21:09
Xuri
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I think the Series 7 plot of entering the Doctor's time stream would have been more suited to River - it would have given her access to his entire timeline, would have offered some real closure for the character and would have meant she got more screentime in the final story - we'd finally find out why she meant so much to The Doctor, and how she always knew so much. A shame they never took that route.
Makes far more sense to me than some random two-dimensional character coming out of nowhere to do it.

I think, for me, Clara would have been better had the Ponds left at the end of 6. Giving Clara room to breathe across all of 7.
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Old 26-07-2013, 21:35
Sh'boobie
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I don't think we'll see her back, unless he's lying his ar** off again and she's lined up for one of the two remaining episodes this year
I have a feeling she'll cameo, based on her first ever appearance.

River Song's Sacrifice - The line she delivers at 0.55s. So sad. So telling. Amazing foreshadowing.
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Old 26-07-2013, 21:44
Abomination
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Makes far more sense to me than some random two-dimensional character coming out of nowhere to do it.

I think, for me, Clara would have been better had the Ponds left at the end of 6. Giving Clara room to breathe across all of 7.
I did find the transition a bit awkward too. I think Jenna is brilliant, but feel that she's had a lack of strong stuff to work with. As suggested, I think her storyline would have been better suited to River. She would have worked better as a bit of a "Donna" character... nothing special, but amazing when it mattered. I don't think it helped that I found Oswin to be more interesting from the off, and I cared for her more in Asylum than I did for Clara...at all really



I have a feeling she'll cameo, based on her first ever appearance.

River Song's Sacrifice - The line she delivers at 0.55s. So sad. So telling. Amazing foreshadowing.
I'll be amazed, even impressed, if they pull this off...somehow write Matt's new haircut into the end of the final story. Make him wear a wig for most of the episode of course, but lose the hair right at the very end somehow. I'd love it if Eleven's final night before his regeneration was spent with River at the Singing Towers. It'd be a bittersweet exit, but a good one for them both.
I imagine such a scene would be needing CG for the towers, so hiding the filming of such a short segment wouldn't be too difficult either
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Old 26-07-2013, 21:47
Sh'boobie
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I'll be amazed, even impressed, if they pull this off...somehow write Matt's new haircut into the end of the final story. Make him wear a wig for most of the episode of course, but lose the hair right at the very end somehow. I'd love it if Eleven's final night before his regeneration was spent with River at the Singing Towers. It'd be a bittersweet exit, but a good one for them both.
I imagine such a scene would be needing CG for the towers, so hiding the filming of such a short segment wouldn't be too difficult either
Exactly. It would be the most perfect, bittersweet farewell of them all.
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Old 26-07-2013, 22:39
TheSilentFez
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I've a feeling he just made that up on the spot...but who knows? Only time will tell.
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Old 26-07-2013, 23:35
Shatterhand1013
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Sorry, but I'm calling shenanigans ("Beautiful word, Shenanigans.") on Moffat. He just can't avoid those dangling storylines of his.
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Old 26-07-2013, 23:40
C. Samurai
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There really arent any dangling plot threads. Just stupid viewers who can't put two and two together on most of his stories
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Old 26-07-2013, 23:52
Abomination
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There really arent any dangling plot threads. Just stupid viewers who can't put two and two together on most of his stories
People can indeed put two and two together, even when the plot is so timey-wimey that five may actually be the right answer.

I think the issue is that some particular scenes are so prominent and made to stand out in their respective episodes but then they're never followed up.

As examples, it's a fair conclusion that the Silence tried to blow up the Tardis in Series 5's The Pandorica Opens, and any aware viewer could explain how such a thing would be possible too. But what exactly was that to achieve, how did it fit in with The Alliance exactly? When the scene in question was so well stated and executed, and The Doctor even references the mystery at the end of the episode as unresolved, it's a fair assumption you wan't it summed up.

Similarly, we're supposed to know that The Doctor and River Song met any number of times in between Forest of the Dead and The Time of Angels. This was never stated as such, and the latter episode kept such vague dialogue that you couldn't have guessed for sure. Despite the fact we had a year of Specials where River could have returned as a companion in one of them (Planet of the Dead would have been the perfect platform for that), we have to go on the word of the writer that those events happened off-screen. I love both RTD and Moffat's writing, but we shouldn't have to be told by the writer what is going on outside of the text/narrative/series itself.

I think it's an understandable frustration that a lot of plot elements get left unresolved for far too long, and then it becomes harder to differentiate between unresolved plot and plot hole.
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Old 27-07-2013, 00:56
Sh'boobie
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There really arent any dangling plot threads. Just stupid viewers who can't put two and two together on most of his stories
So what has Moffat promised to tie up then? His laces?

I think you'll find there are just stupid viewers who put two & two together then imagine another two, leap to a conclusion and then condescend to others about what a clever clogs they are and how everyone else is just thick.
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Old 27-07-2013, 02:13
Laura_Oswin
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Yeah he's tying up Eleven's story, but he'll sure as hell be dangling a lot of carrots for Twelve immediately after and throughout S8.
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Old 27-07-2013, 02:49
Joe_Zel
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As examples, it's a fair conclusion that the Silence tried to blow up the Tardis in Series 5's The Pandorica Opens, and any aware viewer could explain how such a thing would be possible too. But what exactly was that to achieve, how did it fit in with The Alliance exactly? When the scene in question was so well stated and executed, and The Doctor even references the mystery at the end of the episode as unresolved, it's a fair assumption you wan't it summed up.
So, it was RTD's responsibility to help clarify one of Moffat's plots before he'd even started them?

But I think the offscreen nature was intended. I think he was going for the Time Traveller's Wife effect.

And let's face it, Moffat struggled when it came to developing relationships between his main characters, it's not surprising he jumped at the chance to leave a lot of it offscreen. I'm still trying to get my head around Amy loving Rory - sure didn't seem like it.
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Old 27-07-2013, 03:51
Abomination
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So, it was RTD's responsibility to help clarify one of Moffat's plots before he'd even started them?

But I think the offscreen nature was intended. I think he was going for the Time Traveller's Wife effect.

And let's face it, Moffat struggled when it came to developing relationships between his main characters, it's not surprising he jumped at the chance to leave a lot of it offscreen. I'm still trying to get my head around Amy loving Rory - sure didn't seem like it.
I don't hold RTD accountable for the slight suspension of belief where River was concerned at that point. But it's well documented that Moffat was pretty aware of his position to take over by the time he was writing Silence in the Library, and definitely so by the time the Specials had unfolded. They discussed what should be done with the Daleks and the Timelords by the conclusion of The End of Time, so I can imagine that River would have been part of those discussions too - even more likely given they had Kingston back filming in the first production block of Series 5.

I appreciate the slight difficulty in transition between the showrunners, and if RTD didn't want to write for River that's fine as well but then I feel that viewers should have been made a bit aware of the situation regarding River at the start of The Time of Angels. I don't mind connecting the dots here and there, or making the odd presumption but for a character that had substantial airtime in Series 4, 5, 6 and 7 I would prefer to know where they stand in regards to the protagonist without the writer having to tell me outside the narrative. I'm fine with the offscreen nature of their relationship in general though

I agree with you totally about the writing of relationships though, particularly about Amy and Rory. I feel that Tom McRae delivered the only episode that conveyed the two characters well enough to identify them as a strong, relateable couple.
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Old 27-07-2013, 20:06
tinny
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Can they say goodbye to river song! than have her as a hologram? !
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Old 28-07-2013, 10:53
allen_who
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wow this is one in the eye for those people who have been claiming these things have already been explained
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Old 28-07-2013, 11:38
platelet
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Yeah he's tying up Eleven's story, but he'll sure as hell be dangling a lot of carrots for Twelve immediately after and throughout S8.
Unless this is Moffat "clearing his desk". It's a long time till they will be filming the new series and he's looking a bit tired
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Old 28-07-2013, 12:16
Granny McSmith
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wow this is one in the eye for those people who have been claiming these things have already been explained
It would be funny if the real explanations were all very different from the "obvious" and "already explained clearly on screen" ones that we thickos are just too dim to get, wouldn't it?
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Old 28-07-2013, 12:45
TheSilentFez
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Do people actually think Moffat will explain who blew up the TARDIS in the Christmas special amongst other things?
It is implied that the Silence blew up the TARDIS. I honestly can't see us getting an explanation beyond that.

From the looks of that video, Moffat was put under pressure by someone interviewing him and so made something up on the spot to give a satisfactory answer.
We may well get some answers, but don't get your hopes up that every question you want answered will be answered.
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Old 28-07-2013, 15:13
allen_who
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Do people actually think Moffat will explain who blew up the TARDIS in the Christmas special amongst other things?
It is implied that the Silence blew up the TARDIS. I honestly can't see us getting an explanation beyond that.

From the looks of that video, Moffat was put under pressure by someone interviewing him and so made something up on the spot to give a satisfactory answer.
We may well get some answers, but don't get your hopes up that every question you want answered will be answered.
Seems that way
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Old 28-07-2013, 15:25
inspector drake
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As much as I wanted it all to be explained, I actually find it a pity he's going to do it all in the Christmas special. Personally, I prefer it when story arcs take place over more than one incarnation of the Doctor rather than beginning/ending with the regeneration. I believe it strengthens the continuity between incarnations.
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Old 28-07-2013, 17:22
Piipp
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I did find the transition a bit awkward too. I think Jenna is brilliant, but feel that she's had a lack of strong stuff to work with. As suggested, I think her storyline would have been better suited to River. She would have worked better as a bit of a "Donna" character... nothing special, but amazing when it mattered. I don't think it helped that I found Oswin to be more interesting from the off, and I cared for her more in Asylum than I did for Clara...at all really




I'll be amazed, even impressed, if they pull this off...somehow write Matt's new haircut into the end of the final story. Make him wear a wig for most of the episode of course, but lose the hair right at the very end somehow. I'd love it if Eleven's final night before his regeneration was spent with River at the Singing Towers. It'd be a bittersweet exit, but a good one for them both.
I imagine such a scene would be needing CG for the towers, so hiding the filming of such a short segment wouldn't be too difficult either
You know if RTD hadn't had Ten wandering around waving goodbye to everyone for half of TEOT then we could have had Eleven doing exactly the same; starting to regenerate, dressing up with a new haircut and saying goodbye to both River and himself, knowing it wasn't just her end, it was his too.
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Old 28-07-2013, 18:01
lilgamevlr
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"to SOME of those questions."
This says it all. But most of the answers have already been given people just refuse to see them
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Old 29-07-2013, 10:17
johnnysaucepn
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There really arent any dangling plot threads. Just stupid viewers who can't put two and two together on most of his stories
Don't be so rude. Also, don't be so ridiculous. If anything, they're being completely un-stupid by not putting two and two together - they're being thoughtful, diligent and open-minded.

Some people are happy with implications, with questions with no clear answer, with ambiguity and open-ended conclusions. Some people feel more comfortable when things are wrapped up cleanly and every pathway explored. Most people are in-between.

That has nothing to do with intelligence.
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