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Willie Scott - one of the most maligned film characters in the history of film?


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Old 27-07-2013, 23:38
Judas82
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I really disagree with a lot of fans of the Indiana Jones series regarding the character of Willie Scott played by Kate Capshaw in Temple Of Doom.

There is often a negative reaction to Willie. I however think she is a great addition to the series. I feel that people who dislike her are the super fans of Marion Ravenwood played by Karen Allen ; the love interest in the original film. Their problem is she's nothing like Marion ; well she isn't supposed to be. That's the point ; she was created to be an entirely different character from Marion. I'm a fan of Marion but equally a fan of Willie too.

I think George Lucas/ Steven Speilberg were correct not to just repeat the first film. Indiana Jones was intended to have a different 'girl' like Bond in each movie so why would we want a carbon copy of Marion in the first film? Karen already did a stellar job.

Kate adds a lightness to what is at times a very dark film. She is comically played to perfection. She also has great chemistry with Harrison Ford. She has a good character arc and begins to be stronger and a little less fish out of water by the end of the movie.

What are other people's opinion on Willie Scott ?
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Old 28-07-2013, 00:09
peroquil
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Marion was of the typical feisty heroine mould of those type of serial movies, but Willie played to another staple of the genre, the damsel in distress / spoilt nightclub singer type. She wasn't meant to be like Marion, and the incessant screaming was intentional. The only thing I didn't like about her was Capshaw's curly hair when wet, which I think looked out of place for the period.
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Old 28-07-2013, 00:14
mr muggles
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Harrison always works better alongside stronger female characters (Carrie Fisher & Karen Allen), Willie was way too whiney and a screamer - it just p*ssed people off. She wasn't really pro-active in the action scenes, like Allen or Fisher. The same audience went to see both franchises and had no interest in her. She wasn't tomboy enough!

It felt like a backwards step for a female in an action movie. Her best scene was the opener, after that, she was a drag.
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Old 28-07-2013, 00:52
jenzie
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let's face it, who wouldn't scream like a little girl, faced with sticking your hand in a hole infested with the most TERRIBLE and MASSIVE insects ever devised!!!!!
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Old 28-07-2013, 01:04
logansdad
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The only reason KC was in Temple was because she was shaggin Speilberg at the time...oh and my opinion, she was awful.
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Old 28-07-2013, 01:13
performingmonk
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The only reason KC was in Temple was because she was shaggin Speilberg at the time...oh and my opinion, she was awful.
That is the reason, there's no doubt of that. Though Willie would have been in as a character regardless!
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Old 28-07-2013, 04:29
SuperAPJ
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The only reason KC was in Temple was because she was shaggin Speilberg at the time
According to that ever-reliable source Wikipedia, the two didn't meet until she was cast in the film.
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Old 28-07-2013, 11:29
peroquil
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Harrison always works better alongside stronger female characters (Carrie Fisher & Karen Allen), Willie was way too whiney and a screamer - it just p*ssed people off. She wasn't really pro-active in the action scenes, like Allen or Fisher. The same audience went to see both franchises and had no interest in her. She wasn't tomboy enough!

It felt like a backwards step for a female in an action movie. Her best scene was the opener, after that, she was a drag.
It wasn't a step backwards because the Indiana Jones series is based on those 1930's republic serials, and the damsel-in-distress, the whiney screamer, spoilt and posh and no use in action scenes was a staple ingredient in many of those. The character of Willie was that to a tee. The problem was that she was compared to that other character staple as I said, which was the plucky heroine.

It's no accident that in the mine-car sequence, after screaming her way through the movie, Willie, to a build-up fanfare theme from John Williams, finally brings herself to punch the last Thuggee guard off the back of the cart.

In the Last Crusade, they played on yet another stereotype of the genre with Elsa Schneider, that of the femme fatale.
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Old 28-07-2013, 11:35
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Crystal Skull turning Marion into a grinning idiot was a step backwards.
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Old 28-07-2013, 11:37
peroquil
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Crystal Skull turning Marion into a grinning idiot was a step backwards.
Agreed, they totally messed up that character. I thought the comedy versions of Sallah and Marcus Brody in Last Crusade, a departure from how they both appeared in Raiders, was a let down, but nobody seems to complain about that.
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Old 28-07-2013, 12:08
dmuk
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Agreed, they totally messed up that character. I thought the comedy versions of Sallah and Marcus Brody in Last Crusade, a departure from how they both appeared in Raiders, was a let down, but nobody seems to complain about that.
I picked up on that too, most people applaud their appearance, but I thought they didn't have much to do, except provide some comedy (which to be fair, wasn't all bad).

I didn't think Willie was that bad of a character, we didn't need a Marion II, and she was meant to be a little annoying.

Lots of Indy threads at the moment, has it been on tv or something?
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Old 28-07-2013, 14:29
mr muggles
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It wasn't a step backwards because the Indiana Jones series is based on those 1930's republic serials, and the damsel-in-distress, the whiney screamer, spoilt and posh and no use in action scenes was a staple ingredient in many of those. The character of Willie was that to a tee. The problem was that she was compared to that other character staple as I said, which was the plucky heroine.

It's no accident that in the mine-car sequence, after screaming her way through the movie, Willie, to a build-up fanfare theme from John Williams, finally brings herself to punch the last Thuggee guard off the back of the cart.

In the Last Crusade, they played on yet another stereotype of the genre with Elsa Schneider, that of the femme fatale.
It was a backwards step for female action heroines at the time. We'd had Princess Leia/several Bond ladies/Karen Allen/on tv we were given Cagney & Lacey, Zhora from Bladerunner and most obviously Ripley from Alien.

There was a definite groundswell of female leads being pro-active in fight/action scenes from the late 70's and early 80s, which then tapered off by the mid 80's.

Yes, I remember Willie hitting the thug as they were escaping off the cart (at the time I was hoping/looking or her to do SOMETHING when I first watched the movie, other than watch the lame comedy and irritating screaming!), thats said, she was great at the opening sequence as the singer, it just went downhill, with the plane...
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Old 28-07-2013, 14:37
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i loved this one. but i forgot to watch it last night and had other things to watch , like a horror film lol
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Old 28-07-2013, 15:03
peroquil
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It was a backwards step for female action heroines at the time. We'd had Princess Leia/several Bond ladies/Karen Allen/on tv we were given Cagney & Lacey, Zhora from Bladerunner and most obviously Ripley from Alien.

There was a definite groundswell of female leads being pro-active in fight/action scenes from the late 70's and early 80s, which then tapered off by the mid 80's.

Yes, I remember Willie hitting the thug as they were escaping off the cart (at the time I was hoping/looking or her to do SOMETHING when I first watched the movie, other than watch the lame comedy and irritating screaming!), thats said, she was great at the opening sequence as the singer, it just went downhill, with the plane...
It was only a backwards step to people who perhaps didn't pick up on the homage to the type of character she was supposed to be. The opening sequence when she appears as the nightclub singer pretty much sets the tone for her character. She's a spoilt, rather ditzy, rather ineffective "doll" playing the damsel-in-distress. The fact that she cannot do anything is pretty deliberate. She's used to being pampered and adored, and is the typical fish-out-of-water in the jungle and the tunnels etc. They almost try to do the damsel thing with Marion in Raiders, because there is no real reason for her to be in that white dress.
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Old 28-07-2013, 15:21
lordOfTime
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let's face it, who wouldn't scream like a little girl, faced with sticking your hand in a hole infested with the most TERRIBLE and MASSIVE insects ever devised!!!!!
Watching last night was the first time I watched the Jungle scene and just thought. Keep quiet dear But I don't blame her for her noisiness throughout the rest of the film.
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Old 28-07-2013, 15:23
dee123
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According to that ever-reliable source Wikipedia, the two didn't meet until she was cast in the film.
Well she got her man in the end. She also ruined her face.
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Old 28-07-2013, 16:21
Ginger Nut
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Willie Scott - one of the most maligned film characters in the history of film?
I'm going to go with. No.
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Old 28-07-2013, 16:59
peroquil
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Well she got her man in the end. She also ruined her face.
Unlike Alison Doody, who still looks damn fine if you ask me...

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2484/3...989a96d76c.jpg
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Old 29-07-2013, 16:03
Jumbobones
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Rubbish.

Also is Harrison Ford really a slimy smug arse or just in films?
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Old 29-07-2013, 21:18
peroquil
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Rubbish.

Also is Harrison Ford really a slimy smug arse or just in films?
Harrison Ford in real life is actually a rather dull man. He doesn't like to do interviews and doesn't come across very well in the ones he does do. He always seems a bit forced and strained, as though he wishes he were anywhere else but there. A bit of a grouch in other words. I've never found him slimy or smug in any of his films.
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Old 29-07-2013, 23:03
Helbore
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Willie never bothered me too much. It was Short Round that was the problem. Why was he there? Why was Indy friends with some kid? Why didn't he hire a getaway driver who had feet that could reach the pedals? If he had to have a kid, why didn't he hire one who could act? Or at least one who could laugh convincingly.

How did that kid get that part? I sincerely hope it wasn't for the same reason Kate Capshaw got hers.
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Old 30-07-2013, 01:16
Jon Ross
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I didn't find her annoying. I think Kate Capshaw was hot in that film. I preferred her to Karen Allen, who I never fancied, but I'd probably have to admit Alison Doody was the hottest.
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Old 30-07-2013, 01:19
Jon Ross
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Agreed, they totally messed up that character. I thought the comedy versions of Sallah and Marcus Brody in Last Crusade, a departure from how they both appeared in Raiders, was a let down, but nobody seems to complain about that.
I've complained about that.

The only reason those characters were in it was because Last Crusade was - in almost every detail - a re-tread of Raiders. They didn't need to be in it and that's why the only thing they could think of doing with them was making them light relief.
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Old 30-07-2013, 01:27
Jon Ross
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Harrison Ford in real life is actually a rather dull man. He doesn't like to do interviews and doesn't come across very well in the ones he does do. He always seems a bit forced and strained, as though he wishes he were anywhere else but there. A bit of a grouch in other words
Which I find quite endearing about him. He must be the last big movie star who didn't give a damn about PR.

I've never found him slimy or smug in any of his films.
Agreed. I find him a bit bland in some films, but certainly not as Indiana Jones in the first three, which he played to perfection.
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Old 30-07-2013, 12:59
Rocketpop
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Willie never bothered me too much. It was Short Round that was the problem. Why was he there? Why was Indy friends with some kid? Why didn't he hire a getaway driver who had feet that could reach the pedals? If he had to have a kid, why didn't he hire one who could act? Or at least one who could laugh convincingly.

How did that kid get that part? I sincerely hope it wasn't for the same reason Kate Capshaw got hers.
Hey Shorty is awesome!
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