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Courts quietly confirm that MMR causes Autism


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Old 28-07-2013, 12:25
bryemycaz
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Someone I know has posted this on FB.

http://www.whiteoutpress.com/timeles...causes-autism/

What concerns me is that the CT will never go away and more children will be at risk from the actual illness. Than the cure, I know this is America but no doubt all the vocal supporters will try again here soon to clear Wakefields name.
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Old 28-07-2013, 12:44
Scarlett Fever
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hmmm..... they don't mention anything about his study etc,. and the MAJOR flaws in it

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astro...wakefield.html

His work has been called fraudulent by the British Medical Journal, and the paper was so awful The Lancet retracted it. Time and again, MMR vaccines have been shown to have no link to autism, which is what Wakefield claimed. His serious professional misconduct led to his being struck off the official listing of doctors in the UK.


how on earth can the
"Courts quietly confirm MMR Vaccine causes Autism"
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Old 28-07-2013, 12:49
Glowbot
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Scarlett nailed it.

It doesn't and it has been proven time and time again that the original paper was unreliable, and subsequent vaccinations did not result in more cases of autism.

It disturbs me that this mommy instinct and conspiracy theorist agenda does not go away despite research going way beyond the normal level of testing already. It's always "oh we need more evidence and research".
No we don't. And this is from someone who never had the MMR jab.
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Old 28-07-2013, 12:50
Bungitin
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Gone to America to make his fortune. Still can't practice by the look of it, he should come back and appeal if he feels strongly about it.
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Old 28-07-2013, 12:53
davidmcn
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Someone I know has posted this on FB.

http://www.whiteoutpress.com/timeles...causes-autism/

What concerns me is that the CT will never go away and more children will be at risk from the actual illness. Than the cure, I know this is America but no doubt all the vocal supporters will try again here soon to clear Wakefields name.
I would be careful not to confuse "insurance company deciding to make a settlement with patient" with "scientific proof that x causes y". The court wasn't actually deciding whether or not there was a link.
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Old 28-07-2013, 13:05
epicurian
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Very good blog entry here, the OP could send to her facebook friend: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/20...induces-ennui/

There are also a lot of other oddities about this story. For instance, despite multiple visits to doctors in Iran, Ryan was not admitted to the hospital, and he appeared to be fine for seven weeks after his last visit to an Iranian doctor, up until the mother brought him home at the end of February. Ultimately, the Vaccine Court ruled to compensate Ryan’s family because he appeared to have suffered a “table injury” of encephalitis. Why it decided to do this is unclear, but Kirby hints at dark conspiracies (in his usual fashion), pointing out that “something changed,” implying that it was new evidence under seal that did it. Maybe. Maybe not. What is clear is that, whatever the reasoning for the court’s final decision, the court did not compensate the Mojabi family for Ryan having an ASD. From the evidence that is publicly available, it doesn’t even sound as though Ryan has an ASD.

The second case discussed is Emily Lowrie, whose mother is Jillian Moller. Kirby, as is his wont, presents this case as David versus Goliath, with the government fighting to crush the child and her mother. (It is David Kirby we’re talking about, after all.) The story is actually somewhat different from that of Ryan Mojabi in that there was actually fairly convincing evidence that Emily suffered symptoms within two weeks of having received her vaccinations. She probably did suffer encephalopathy in close enough temporal association with vaccination to be, as the court ruled, a table injury. But evidence of vaccines causing Emily to become autistic? There is none. In fact, unlike the case of Ryan Mojabi, autism or autism spectrum disorder isn’t even mentioned in the ruling...
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Old 28-07-2013, 15:40
bryemycaz
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I would be careful not to confuse "insurance company deciding to make a settlement with patient" with "scientific proof that x causes y". The court wasn't actually deciding whether or not there was a link.
I know what you mean I should have put the thread title in quotes. I for one have never believed the media hype. Both my 2 had the MMR when they should have. My eldest even had a TB jab at birth 8 years ago as the doctors were fearful of a re-explosion.

The only Jab I have refused to give my kids was the Swine Flu one as I do not trust that one because it was rushed out so fast.
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Old 28-07-2013, 16:03
Cally's mum
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Meanwhile, the diseases the MMR jab was set up to counteract continue to multiply and children die.

The man is a charlatan and is wholly responsible for these deaths. That he continues to peddle his wares is appalling and abhorrent.
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Old 28-07-2013, 16:15
Komrade Kieron
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Wakefield is scum. Profiteering on scaremongering and the resultant mortality rate from vulnerable parents worried for no reason is grounds for him to be jailed. If I ever saw him I'd hit him.
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Old 28-07-2013, 16:37
bryemycaz
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One thing I wonder about is the parents who say their child changed at the precise moment that they got the Jab.

Could it be true or are the parents not looking further back and convincing themselves that was the reason. Or did they miss earlier signs that were not evident at the time.
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Old 28-07-2013, 16:43
Hogzilla
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One thing I wonder about is the parents who say their child changed at the precise moment that they got the Jab.

Could it be true or are the parents not looking further back and convincing themselves that was the reason. Or did they miss earlier signs that were not evident at the time.
As I have posted many times, my son had a whole battery of tests run on him because he was our guinea pig on an Early Childhood grad course in the US (postgrad in the UK). He was utterly 'normal'. Within hours of the MMR vaccination - he was a different baby. No subtle changes, nothing. I was in the middle of being trained in this kind of thing and my specialism was kind of neuro/special needs oriented - so knew how to assess, and indeed adminster standardised tests - objectively. Not only myself but my entire course - can't remember the number but around a dozen postgrads - and a professor were using my son as guinea pig for a whole range of cognitive and other standardized tests. I was the only student with a baby, so we did all our tests on him. He was normal, definitely in terms of cognitive development, linguistically etc.

Back in the UK, he was a bit off the UK schedule for vaccinations, so had em when we got back here. Six other kids vaccinated from that same batch of vaccine (batch #s were recorded and later traced) also 'became' autistic. None of the families involved knew eachother, and we only found out a few years later.

After that vaccination - he no longer spoke at all. And didn't for years after.

That is all I know. Over and out.
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Old 28-07-2013, 16:43
Cally's mum
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One thing I wonder about is the parents who say their child changed at the precise moment that they got the Jab.

Could it be true or are the parents not looking further back and convincing themselves that was the reason. Or did they miss earlier signs that were not evident at the time.
I suspect a mixture of both. To be honest, autism is not something that can be diagnosed in one fell swoop. Child development is an ongoing thing and is monitored by paediatricians and other specialists as the child ages and reaches milestones, or not and manifests behaviours (like repetitiveness, strange obsessions, social problems etc etc).
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Old 28-07-2013, 16:54
Delboy219
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I'm not wanting to start any fights or even get into a full discussion about it, but i will say this, my son was starting to talk, and was counting to three (we'd do this as he stepped off a pavement, it was so cute) and within six weeks of getting the MMR he completely withdrew. He stopped speaking, stopped kicking a ball around. He totally changed.

He's 13 now and he still can't speak. Classic autism. He understood more when he was two years old, than he does now.

Probably a coincidence. But hand on heart, he was fine until he got that jab.

I will say this, we WERE scared of the MMR, but we were bullied into getting it. Had nurses phoning and coming to the door about it. So we caved.

To reiterate, i'm not saying it WAS the MMR. Obviously that can't be proven. I'm just telling the story exactly the way it happened.
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Old 28-07-2013, 17:06
Rhumbatugger
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I'm not wanting to start any fights or even get into a full discussion about it, but i will say this, my son was starting to talk, and was counting to three (we'd do this as he stepped off a pavement, it was so cute) and within six weeks of getting the MMR he completely withdrew. He stopped speaking, stopped kicking a ball around. He totally changed.

He's 13 now and he still can't speak. Classic autism. He understood more when he was two years old, than he does now.

Probably a coincidence. But hand on heart, he was fine until he got that jab.

I will say this, we WERE scared of the MMR, but we were bullied into getting it. Had nurses phoning and coming to the door about it. So we caved.

To reiterate, i'm not saying it WAS the MMR. Obviously that can't be proven. I'm just telling the story exactly the way it happened.
I think this is the problem, autism can evidence at around the same time as the jab.

So correlation is accepted.

However, incidences of ASD have not changed pre or post MMR.

Hard one to be witness to, I agree. And I don't think there can't have been some bad batch or two.

But basically, the evidence is against MMR causing autism.
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Old 28-07-2013, 17:15
MAW
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My son had a fit after his first MMR. That's actually not unusual, having a fever linked fit at 1 year old, that is. He's up a ladder about 10 ft from me now. His 21st birthday is next week, he has a 1st class degree from a well known university, so no autism induced by the fit or the jab. I tell you though, for about 15 years it was an awful job to get him to eat his greens. That jab is to blame
Moral. One anecdotal story does not equal proof, or even evidence.
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Old 28-07-2013, 17:47
Ovalteenie
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I'm keeping an open mind. All we can say is there is no evidence for a link at the present time & it may be unlikely. But there are historical cases of people being villified for going against the prevailing wisdom only to be vindicated eventually. Most recently, remember how we were reassured by the government that BSE definitely could not transmit to humans? Dissenting scientists such as Professor Lacey of Leeds university were dismissed as crackpot scaremongers at the time.
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Old 28-07-2013, 17:55
Breadstix
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My son is Autistic and he's had the MMR vaccine. Does this mean this was the cause? No it bloody doesn't, cannot believe this garbage is still doing the rounds.

I think the current generation of parents and grandparents don't realise how deadly these childhood illnesses actually are.
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Old 28-07-2013, 18:00
Hobbit Feet
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He's up a ladder about 10 ft from me now. His 21st birthday is next week, he has a 1st class degree from a well known university, so no autism induced by the fit or the jab.
Do people with autism not climb ladders, turn 21, get a degree or go to 'well known universities'?

I fear your knowledge of Autism may be deeply flawed.
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Old 28-07-2013, 18:01
semiminted
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http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...m-7858596.html


Link to Italian court ruling that autism caused by MMR vaccine

It's only "quiet" because uk media and others will not want to respond because of government opinion
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Old 28-07-2013, 18:04
Electra
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I'm not wanting to start any fights or even get into a full discussion about it, but i will say this, my son was starting to talk, and was counting to three (we'd do this as he stepped off a pavement, it was so cute) and within six weeks of getting the MMR he completely withdrew. He stopped speaking, stopped kicking a ball around. He totally changed.

He's 13 now and he still can't speak. Classic autism. He understood more when he was two years old, than he does now.

Probably a coincidence. But hand on heart, he was fine until he got that jab.

I will say this, we WERE scared of the MMR, but we were bullied into getting it. Had nurses phoning and coming to the door about it. So we caved.

To reiterate, i'm not saying it WAS the MMR. Obviously that can't be proven. I'm just telling the story exactly the way it happened.
I'm so sorry to hear that Delboy. I too have an autistic child. I also have one that isn't. They both had the MMR at 13 months & neither had an adverse reaction to it. My autistic (Asperger) daughter could count to 10 at 18 months (well after she'd had the jab) & was speaking in full sentences by the age of two.

I honestly don't think the MMR has anything to do with it.
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Old 28-07-2013, 18:20
big brother 9
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Bloody naughty.
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Old 28-07-2013, 18:22
Rhumbatugger
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Do people with autism not climb ladders, turn 21, get a degree or go to 'well known universities'?

I fear your knowledge of Autism may be deeply flawed.
His child isn't autistic though, which is the point.
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Old 28-07-2013, 18:23
spkx
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Civil courts use a very lax burden of proof of "balance of probabilities", arguably skin to a 51% confidence level.

This is very, very, very, very, very... x 100 different to a scientific study linking X with Y, which will usually be anywhere up from a 95% confidence level, usually far more (e.g. 99.99% if not more)

The idea a court can 'confirm' such a thing is ridiculous.
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Old 28-07-2013, 18:28
Moggio
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Probably a coincidence. But hand on heart, he was fine until he got that jab.
There's no probably about it.

MMR doesn't cause autism.
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Old 28-07-2013, 18:28
MAW
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Do people with autism not climb ladders, turn 21, get a degree or go to 'well known universities'?

I fear your knowledge of Autism may be deeply flawed.
I'm merely attempting to indicate he's normal, as far as the term goes. But you knew that. My knowledge of autism may be slightly greater than you think, as it happens.

In any case, the point really is that there's no proven link between MMR and any condition you could mention, but that still doesn't preclude the possibility of isolated cases. What we do know is that the danger of not vaccinating carries a far higher risk of long term damage than the possibility of damage caused by the vaccine. No medical treatment is 100% safe. I know of someone who died in hospital from a blood clot after trivial surgery, and drug reactions are an occasional and tragic bit of news from time to time. You play the odds, basically.
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