If you see my other posts I thought (hoped) I made it clear that I thought the cucumber thing was nothing. 2 friends playing about and one accidentally got hurt. No wrong or wronged parties. I don't think Charlie did anything wrong there - clumsy, yes, but not a bad thing.

I was simply refuting the claim that Hazel is the common denominator in 2 entirely incomparable episodes so must be the cause of other people's behaviour. I thought that unfair.

And as for playing the victim card I don't think she did. She was asked by bb about it and didn't make a fuss. Charlie made more of a fuss in her bid to deflect away from her unnecessary comment about Daley IMO.

Anyway I've said all this before. Sorry if I'm not explaining myself well but maybe my other posts on the thread might explain it better than the one you've just quoted. I can't promise anything, mind. I wouldn't be the most articulate of posters.

Once again i think you have confused what you have read, which is usually the problem on here, assuming what i meant to fit your argument is different to it actually being what i had said..

However, I will explain this out just this one time, i said Daley is responsible for his own actions SO when Daley grabs Hazels neck and pins her down, she isn't responsible or at fault for that, she is at fault for escalating things in the first place with a drunk and tired Daley though, for smacking the behind of a guy you've for a few weeks, for pulling down his boxers and for putting a pillow over his face..

Now saying that, in a real situation, if a woman is attacked she is not at fault, no one is saying that.

However, if a woman initiated a play fight, takes things a little too far and if either party, whether it's the male or the female takes things a little too far under the influence then it's either both parties are to blame or neither party are to blame, the Daley and Hazel incident was unfortunate but neither party wanted it to get that far therefore it wasn't a case of a big bad thug wanting to inflict pain or discomfort on little ole dainty Hazel, it was two adults slightly drunk, both having some fun that got out of hand, being drunk blurred the lines and neither Hazel nor Daley had the luxury of watching everything in night vision from a distance..

We saw the whole thing and have a better grasp of what happened and why it happened, Daley and Hazel had no such tool to help them judge the situation better and with there being sexual tension between the two building up over the past few weeks, things got a little too intense..

Once again Hazel is not responsible for what Daley did, but she is responsible for her part in the whole event.

Yeah i see where you're coming from, however not wishing to start an argument, although we both agree Charlie did nothing wrong, there was a follow up post saying Charlie had made a big issue out of it which i disagree with, although i think we just have a difference of opinion.

Personally i don't feel Charlie was in the wrong for her Daley comment, especially since she had retracted her statement almost as soon as she made it which shows she feels it wasn't the right place to say it, however maybe I'm not being objective but i feel Hazel was looking to jump on that in order to play herself off as the victim..

Also final point, while you may say you're not the most articulate of posters, i felt you had explained yourself well and carry yourself well in every post which is why i wanted to reply to your post, i feel you are being fair even if we disagree.

To be honest i felt this was a cheapshot and a pretty disgusting thing to say, Once it was revealed to the housemates that Daley had been kicked out for being aggressive, Gina much like the rest of the housemates in there were shocked and no one including Gina tried to belittle Hazel for what had happened.. To even suggest a woman or anyone would love for Hazel to be attacked is beyond low.

I don't like Hazel but no way is she biggest bitch in bb history!

Get a grip.

No confusion here. Put it in context, she was responcible for her actions YES but in that she was thinking it was playfull banter. BUT it went beyond that, something she hadn't seen in him before and was obviously scared and confused by his actions but still didn't think or want him removed. The silly cucumber incident is just that silly! and best explained by the poster above. Your obvious dislike for the girl or possible like for another HM? is possibly clouding your judgement.

Fair enough, I take it back if it offends you so much. But stop over dramatizing it as some of the comments on here/BBots/Ex HMs lately about the girl have been unbelievable. Judging by Gina’s commentary in the DR about her obviously shows the extent of her dislike for Hazel.

Re bib - Hazel hardly played the victim. The incident happened, things carried on, Big Brother called Hazel into the DR to ask if her eye was alright, she said fine it was nothing - in essence. Last night's argument wasn't about the bloody cucumber It was about all that happened after the DR visit
- when initially Gina assumed she'd gone up of her own accord, not at BB's beckoning
- when Charlie appeared to assume that the visit meant she'd done something wrong,
- when Hazel called Charlie aggressive then denied it,
- when Charlie brought up Daley,
- when they argued, it finished, they argued again, it finished, Hazel went to bed for a second time and
- when Charlie continued to vent about her for over half an hour outside to Gina.

The cucumber is innocent I tell you

You could be right, i may just not be being objective enough, except i feel Hazel's character is the reason i feel there is a lot more to what happened..

For instance it's easy to call it abuse, say the woman was the victim and the guy was fully wrong for everything that went on.. Truth being, Daley had said they had play fought like that a bunch of times and none of it was shown, and a few times Hazel was more aggressive than that and Daley had said it was just banter and sort of a feeling out process..

It's easy to put the blame on Daley from not knowing the guy, but had that been us, you're flirting and generally just being playful, light slaps and boxers being pulled down, lines become blurred and as shown tonight things get out of hand even over something as trivial as a cucumber, not knowing the boundaries i think played a huge part that night. once again i don't think either Daley or Hazel wanted to hurt the one another.

While not condoning Daleys behavior, pinning her down and grabbing her neck, under the influence we all say and do things which we later regret, without the whole nation labeling us thugs or abusers..

Slightly off topic, but plenty of times i used to play fight with my younger brothers (me being 16-17 at the time, my brothers three and five years younger), there were times where i may have been heavy handed but never was it intentional. Probably a big reason why i see things differently i just feel the incident wasn't about abuse as such, and more so just two housemates with a lot of sexual tension just playfully enjoying each others company feeling each other out and things got out of hand, for me the big point is neither housemate was intending to cause harm despite people labeling Daley a thug for what was essentially an unfortunate incident.

Comments on here tend to be exxagerated on both sides, Gina dislikes Hazel but you realize Hazel dislikes Gina too? So by your logic Hazel would be jumping for joy if Gina was assaulted simply because they dislike each other.. No need to retract anything you say, whether it offends or not stick by your view. You are ignorant for making said point but still have every right to say it.

No one is saying you are condoning his actions but you have to admit to the viewing public there was a disturbing undercurrent to it which took Hazel by surprise and left BB with no alternative. What surprises me is the backlash towards Hazel and you have to admit that Gina's influence with the public (her fans) seems to have fuelled this be it through blind loyalty or whatever something i just can't fathom for a heavily edited entertainment show.

If she was really the biggest bitch in history, I'd probably like her more.

But no, she's really tame and boring.

Unfortunate incident didn't Ted Bundy have a few of those .....

It was tongue in cheek and you know it, so less of the ignorant if you don’t mind. Some of your own views could be viewed the same way.

I still haven't figured out the whole love for Gina on here and on bots to be honest, makes little to no sense since to me she is being just as she was on the first day, which they hated on the first day she walked in and now i seem to be hearing people say she's turned it around, which confuses me because she seems to be acting the same.

To answer your point though, i don't honestly feel Gina's "fans" or new found respect is the reason for Hazels downfall.. I personally feel it's because she has played off the housemates, she targeted both Dexter and Gina imo and now feels hard done by..

Regarding the whole incident that night, even in the aftermath i felt Hazel was very calculating, first playing up like she was shocked (imo she was playing up until big brother intervened at which point she curled up in a ball in the corner which seemed suspicious to me). Having then both been separated and called to the diary room individually, she came back and they both cuddled that night, and once again in the morning she was then under the impression that big brother was taking things more seriously to which she then went to the tree house with Dan and began for the first time, distancing herself from Daley, much like she did with Dan when he was up for nominations (which is when she began growing closer to Daley incidentally).

I can understand how that night seemed disturbing having seen the edit, but the live feed of the night it happened showed a clearer picture for me as to how both Hazel and Daley work with each other. They played off each other the whole night, which is why when anyone calls it abuse i feel that's just an exaggeration.

Yet another pointless threat just to attack Hazel, isn't there enough of these? please DS mods delete this pointless thread

Which is why intent is crucial, was Daley hoping from when he got in that safe house to have a night with Hazel to beat on her and dominate her? slap her around a little on a reality show? Let's not compare this incident with big brother housemates to serial killers it really does weaken your argument even if the rolling eyes emote hadn't already done that.

It's not pointless just because you disagree with the topic.

She isn't a nice person but like Dexter said, she is vanilla. Bland woman.

Quite

I don't agree. I really didn't like her at the height of daleygate when I really thought she craved all the attention their controversial 'connection' but now she's pretty non offensive and I feel the hate is rather uncalled for. And I love Gina.

Bit in bold..

I can tell you exactly why there is such a backlash towards Hazel, and i personally don't think it's down to Gina, in general the more level headed viewers need something to pin on someone as to why we dislike whichever housemate we dislike, After watching Fridays show where Sam was being boo'd harshly in my view, i feel that disliking housemates don't necessarily have to be down to any one particular reason, to then see how Hazel's behavior in the house has been, i think that is why she is getting slightly more flack than she deserves. I can see why a lot of people dislike her, and i do not put it down to jealousy as some members on here seem to believe.

Level headed viewers see it for what it is a heavily edited entertainment show. As for the “slightly more flack than she deserves”! Are you for real? If the press is anything to go by the girl has been getting death threats.

Maybe he did not intend to slap her, threaten her, put his hands around her throat and tell her he was going to nut her, but he did didn't he ?. And that was the reason why he got the boot, Hazel never said once she wanted him out, it was the shows producers who took that decision, which was the right one for the sake of the show, if they did not put him out they would have found themselves in the centre of a media sh*t storm, and that could have meant the end for BB on C5.....