TVs are getting smarter and better. However the need to completely ignore the TV tuners/EPG etc and use a separate PVR is becoming a real pain.

What's the point of a Smart TV - if all you do is use it as a dumb display for your PVR? You have multiple controllers and so on.

The obvious solution is for Smart TVs to have twin tuners for Freesat and allow recording - either to a USB disk or something internal.

So far Samsung is close to this, but only has a single FreeSat tuner in models like UE40F6670 - a great TV which I would rush out and buy - OTHER than I would just have to use it as a dumb display from my PVR if I want to record anything that I am not watching at the same time!

Anyone know of any FreeSat TVs with twin tuners and USB recording?

Seems to me that it's time to declare independence from the PVRs with their fairly useless and incomplete (or non-existent) apps and have a Smart TV which can do it all.

Too many eggs in one basket. One part fails the whole lot's got to be repaired/replaced. No space inside a thin flat screen for a decent size hard disc and the power supply it needs. Solution put the HDD and the power supply in an external box and call it a pvr

Agree 100%!!!

What would be the view if it had USB recording?

Same problem, 'almost' all your eggs in one basket

Adding twin tuners - in fact it would have to be THREE tuners to duplicate functionality of a TV + PVR, and the extra memory and PVR software would only add to the expense of the set.

PVR TV's have been made (but only two tuner), but all have flopped - Humax were probably the most 'popular'.

The high end Panasonic TV's this year have twin DVB-T2 and DVB-S2 tuners (Freeview/Freesat) built in with the facility to record onto a usb disk.

As do the high end Samsung but AFAIK only the ability to record 1 programme at a time and then there's the DRM so it can only play on the TV that recorded it.

Record one and watch another, so a slight improvement on the older models but they still don't sound overly interesting. For a person that watches a lot of live TV and only very occasionally records plugging a HDD into the TV is probably fine.
But for the rest of us a good PVR is always going to be so much better.

Indeed. At times I have been thankful that I have 2 PVRs. I have very occasionally used the record to USB facility on my Samsung TV for Freeview and been able to watch my PVR at the same time.
The new Samsung TVs do seem a bit handicapped, having 4 tuners but only able to record from 1 at any given time.

Recording one programme at a time to USB would be fine. Same with watching them on the same device.

I just hate the idea of a great Smart TV being crippled by having to use a PVR all the time.

Yes, I know I could go out and get the latest "smarter" PVR but then I don't know any that run netflix, web browsers, skype and all the other stuff that smart TVs do.

With one smart and one dumb device (like PVR and dumb TV) you can use one controller just about. But with two smart devices there is simply no way that you can get one controller to cover all the features of both devices.

I think Samsung are bringing out twin Freesat tuners later this year, so I will put off buying a new TV yet again - why have all the gizmos like gesture control and so forth if it's crippled by being shackled to a slow PVR like Humax or Echostar?

Just frustration at the lack of proper integration of all the basic features peopled need. Integrated devices are SO much better than bolting things together. It's currently like the old days of hi-fi with a million different cables.

Time to join the dots guys and have one user interface that does the lot.

It's better to have a TV with basic functionality but high quality display and use it mainly for its display capabilities then add on the additional functionality you want using external equipment, games consoles, blu-ray player, home theatre, PVR, media server. If you want to control them all with one remote get a decent learning remote control.

It makes no sense for manufactures to build sets with YouView, Freetime, Sky+ HD or Virgin Tivo PVRs built in. Sky subsidise and Virgin rent you there PVRs with the costs hidden in the subscription. Most YouView PVRs are subsidised by ISPs in the hope of generating extra money from subscriptions or on demand purchases. Freesat is competing against Virgin, Freeview/Youview, Sky and online services for a share of the pie and their slice is no where near big enough to justify manufacturers adding a Freetime PVR capability to their TV ranges.

Pause Live TV is a genuinely useful thing that a TV could do without needing an external PVR box plugged in, whirring away, consuming 30W-ish even when it's doing nothing, TV external input selected, bypassing the TV's own tuner, however I think I mentioned this once on these DS forums and was shot down in flames for suggesting such a stupid idea as it can only be done with full PVR functionaility in the TV and that's a stupid idea because you've then got all your eggs in one basket blah blah blah. Which I think was missing the point.

It's for people who think they don't want a proper PVR.

You're forgetting all the other things a Smart TV does that a PVR like Humax does not do, or sucks at.

Netflix (an outstandingly brilliant must-have service)
All the other on-demand apps that don't work on your PVR!
Web browsing
Skype
Various heuristic features like working out what you like watching etc.
Integration with smart phones

and loads more to come - this is the future, not some naff PVR that is little more than a digital version of a VHS machine.

And PVR's do too...

http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_G...624/index.html

http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/t.../STB-E7500M/XU

Anybody who tries to use a smart tv to browse the net has to be a masochist

What, needing to buy a complete new TV every year to keep up?

Yes, if you rely on Smart TV, that is your future. Good luck with that.

Meanwhile, for making the most of broadcast TV there is the PVR, and for making the most of everything else, there is whatever £50-£100 dongle is the box for this year. If you can find both in one box, great. If you can find it all in a TV, great.

But don't kid yourself: whatever you buy, the "smart" bit will be out of date next year. Which is why it's handy to have it in a separate box. Assuming you buy a decent TV. If you buy a cheap TV, replacing the whole lot every year might not be a problem.

Cheers,
David.

And all a load of guff I really don't want or need tbh.

I agree,you lose the will to live,just trying

Fine, but I don't want to downgrade my smart TV to a dumb PVR.

Actually Samsung now has an option to upgrade the TV's processor without the whole TV being ditched.

PVRs have painfully slow processors - unless you keep upgrading the entire box.

Smart TVs have, up to now, been pretty naff (like the PVRs) but they are just starting to really deliver useful function.

Did I forget to mention DNLA?

Yes, they both have a place but competing "smartness" just means a mess of two controllers and constant switching around. Smart TVs are outpacing PVRs in all aspects but recording - it can't be long before someone closes the loop.

Sorry, would rather give my money to Samsung that to a small UK company that doesn't enhance their existing software much.

Both those are Freeview, not FreeSat I believe and I also understand that Samsung has stopped making FreeSat PVRs now.

It is pretty obvious when a company like Samsung or Panasonic invest in "smart" technology they seek to maximise their investment by including it across their product range. You'll find the same features in TV's, PVR's, and Blu-Ray recorders. It's a bit naive to assume they will only add features to TV's.

Not sure what pvr's you have tried, clearly they weren't a decent model. The Topfield one's were excellent.

Incidentally it's DLNA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital...twork_Alliance

And the latest Humax G2 Freesat box has DLNA capability.

You appear to be under somewhat of a misconception, 'some' Samsung TV's have VERY expensive (and limited) upgrade capabilities - which is fine while the TV's and upgrades are current and available. But it's unlikely that upgrades will be available for very long at all.

Plus the cost isn't very different to buying a new PVR


And are still pretty naff - perhaps slightly less naff than before?, but nothing to get excited about.

You still fail to grasp the essence, I don't want TWO devices with completely different user interfaces simply to watch and record television.

Clearly a PVR is useless without a TV. But a TV with integrated recording function would work well.

It's going to happen sooner or later.

Has any FreeSat HD PVR actually managed to get its act together and run Netflix, Lovefilm, and all the players (BBC, ITV, C4)?

Because that is my minimum requirement.

Also why don't they combine their PVR with a DVD/Blueray player? - I just don't want all these different boxes with different controllers, different interfaces etc