[FCUK]

So I am looking to buy this dvd:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Teen-Wolf-Se...ords=Teen+Wolf

However...it's stating NTSC for region 2 which is weird as it is normally PAL. All my TV's in the house are flat screens, some flatter then others and my DVD players are no older then 6yrs. Although I am gonna change the older ones in the next several months. If I brought this dvd...would it work?

I cannot imagine Amazon would advertise this for the UK and knowing there may be issues. I've noticed this a few months back but then I saw a review that really grabbed me. Advice please...

[-GONZO-]

Yeah it will work as long as your tv is NTSC compatible which I would very surprised if it wasn't, unless its really really old.
Its not uncommon for region 2 NTSC DVDs, as there are quite a few that have been released over the years.

[alan1302]

More likely a mistake in the description

[grimtales1]

Could be an NTSC transfer used for the UK DVD perhaps?
Japan also uses NTSC for DVD and is Region 2.

[mac2708]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan1302

More likely a mistake in the description

Possible but the description does state
"This DVD may not be viewable outside Europe" and there are other DVDs described as Region 2 NTSC e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Chariots-Fire-.../dp/7531824531
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sex-City-Ser.../dp/B00005IBA0

As already said as long as the TV handles NTSC then it should play.
In any event Amazon have a good returns policy

[peter_jenkins2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan1302

More likely a mistake in the description

Unlikely .
Many music dvd's released in the UK are NTSC and there are a few tv shows that were released on region 2 that are NTSC including the first season of the original Charlies Angels series .
I guess they didn't want to spend cash to create PAL masters .

[Lumstorm]

They possibly just released the American discs over here with a region code change.

[FCUK]

Well as I stated in my opening post my TV's are all flatscreens and I think the oldest is about 4-5yrs old. The newest TV was brought Dec 12 and it's 3D. so none of the are ancient at all so I suspect my TV's are new enough to accept the NTSC format.

We have 8 TV's in our house but I only use 3 of them and 2 of them are the newest so going based on all your advices it should work ok. I have however contacted Amazon and they said that if there has been a mistake and it wont play here...they will remove all items with that format from the site and purchase new stock.

And the DVD player wont even come into it right? So long as the region is 2 it shall work on the DVD player with no issues?

[mac2708]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FCUK

..... I have however contacted Amazon and they said that if there has been a mistake and it wont play here...they will remove all items with that format from the site and purchase new stock.

And the DVD player wont even come into it right? So long as the region is 2 it shall work on the DVD player with no issues?

FWIW I would order it and the chances are that it will play OK.
If it doesn't Amazon will refund without any problems and provide the pre-paid returns label.

There seems to me to be no other alternative.
If you do let us know what happens.

[FCUK]

I'll let you know, don't worry. I checked, can buy it from Sainsbury's also. So not all is lost.

[BKM]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FCUK

So I am looking to buy this dvd:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Teen-Wolf-Se...ords=Teen+Wolf

However...it's stating NTSC for region 2 which is weird as it is normally PAL. ..

There is, to be exact, NO such thing as an "NTSC DVD" - in the sense that what is on the DVD will be EITHER 25fps or 30fps component video data. The DVD player (itself) may create NTSC for 30fps DVDs - but only on its composite video connector.

If the DVD player is connected to the TV via either of RGB or HDMI this bypasses NTSC (or PAL) entirely. The only question is whether the TV can cope with 30fps input - and this is almost certain on any flat-panel (and indeed those made in the last 20++ years!)

[peter_jenkins2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BKM

There is, to be exact, NO such thing as an "NTSC DVD" - in the sense that what is on the DVD will be EITHER 25fps or 30fps component video data. The DVD player (itself) may create NTSC for 30fps DVDs - but only on its composite video connector.

If the DVD player is connected to the TV via either of RGB or HDMI this bypasses NTSC (or PAL) entirely. The only question is whether the TV can cope with 30fps input - and this is almost certain on any flat-panel (and indeed those made in the last 20++ years!)

While neither of the terms NTSC or PAL actually refer to how many lines there are in the picture the terms are used universally all over the world by both hardware and software manufacturers to differentiate between 525 and 625 lines.

Once you start getting pedantic it leads to talk of 3:2 pulldown and other things irrelevant to the end user

[Winston_1]

Virtually all modern DVD players can output "NTSC" DVDs as PAL 625 line 50 Hz anyway. Look for the menu option PAL, NTSC, Auto.

[BKM]

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter_jenkins2

While neither of the terms NTSC or PAL actually refer to how many lines there are in the picture the terms are used universally all over the world by both hardware and software manufacturers to differentiate between 525 and 625 lines.

I disagree with you that NTSC and PAL are used universally. The (also imprecise) "Region 1 DVD" and "Region 2 DVD" terms seem to be used much more often!

I personally prefer to refer to call them "North American DVDs" or 30fps or 60Hz ones.

If you insist on "NTSC DVD" you then immediately get into the awkward fact that using either RGB SCART or HDMI to the TV renders the NTSC or PAL description irrelevant!

[grahamlthompson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter_jenkins2

While neither of the terms NTSC or PAL actually refer to how many lines there are in the picture the terms are used universally all over the world by both hardware and software manufacturers to differentiate between 525 and 625 lines.

Once you start getting pedantic it leads to talk of 3:2 pulldown and other things irrelevant to the end user

Nothing to do with 525 and 625 lines.

DVD's intended for NTSC countries are generally 720 x 480 29.97fps. DVD's intended for PAL countries are generally 720 x 576 25fps. This is the same standard as PAL 625 analogue (576 visible lines) and DVB-T.

This applies irrespective of whether the aspect ratio is 4:3 or 16:9 (they simply use differing pixel aspect ratios)

Here's the list of usable mpeg2 resolutions for both frame rates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Video

[peter_jenkins2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winston_1

Virtually all modern DVD players can output "NTSC" DVDs as PAL 625 line 50 Hz anyway. Look for the menu option PAL, NTSC, Auto.

Only on the cheap imported players .
Quality players from the likes of Panasonic and Pioneer output NTSC as NTSC or PAL 60 - in both cases 525 lines

Quote:

Originally Posted by BKM

I disagree with you that NTSC and PAL are used universally. The (also imprecise) "Region 1 DVD" and "Region 2 DVD" terms seem to be used much more often!

I have hundreds of US imported dvd's and I can count one two hands the ones that don't say NTSC on the back .

Quote:

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

Nothing to do with 525 and 625 lines.

Isn't that what I said ?
However , check out practically every dvd in the world or every dvd player / recorder manual and you will see PAL/NTSC mentioned - even on the setup menus of the hardware .

Here's another dvd labelled NTSC that's not even out yet.
Maybe you should let Amazon know their error.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Perfect-Stra...words=dvd+ntsc

[Lumstorm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winston_1

Virtually all modern DVD players can output "NTSC" DVDs as PAL 625 line 50 Hz anyway. Look for the menu option PAL, NTSC, Auto.

My DVD players have never been able to output PAL from a NTSC disc,apart from a Samsung I had that could do full conversion and the picture quality suffered from jagged lines with conversion.

Also if there no such thing as NTSC or PAL why do all my discs say NTSC or PAL on the back my PS3 will also refuse to play a disc if it's PAL formatted so not every player can play either format. While pretty much all PAL machines will play NTSC. NTSC machines don't tend to handle PAL.

[Winston_1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumstorm

While pretty much all PAL machines will play NTSC. NTSC machines don't tend to handle PAL.

Quite likely. The same applies to NTSC TVs. It is deliberate hobbling by the manufacturers though. Aren't we lucky to live in a PAL country.

[jenzie]

it's IRRELEVANT what your tv's are, all that matter is that your DVD play the NTSC disc, sand that means it has to be a MUTLI REGION PLAYER!

never heard of modern dvd players outputting NTSC!

[Winston_1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenzie

it's IRRELEVANT what your tv's are, all that matter is that your DVD play the NTSC disc, sand that means it has to be a MUTLI REGION PLAYER!

never heard of modern dvd players outputting NTSC!

You are completely wrong. Region coding and PAL/NTSC are completely different things. Region 2 only players can play region 2 NTSC DVDs.

Most modern DVD players can output NTSC, certainly all the supermarket brands. Some of the more well known makes may be hobbled in this respect, so don't buy one.

[grahamlthompson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter_jenkins2

Only on the cheap imported players .
Quality players from the likes of Panasonic and Pioneer output NTSC as NTSC or PAL 60 - in both cases 525 lines


I have hundreds of US imported dvd's and I can count one two hands the ones that don't say NTSC on the back .


Isn't that what I said ?
However , check out practically every dvd in the world or every dvd player / recorder manual and you will see PAL/NTSC mentioned - even on the setup menus of the hardware .

Here's another dvd labelled NTSC that's not even out yet.
Maybe you should let Amazon know their error.

I think you are somewhat confused, I already said DVD's with the NTSC logo will have 480p or 480i content (that's 480 lines), Ones with the PAL logo will be either 576p or 576i (576 lines). A Nintendo Will using the highest quality component output setting outputs 480p at 29.97fps same as a NTSC DVD.

Not sure where you are getting 625 from 625 lines are used for PAL analogue transmissions, there is only 576 lines of picture information. DVD is a digital storage media almost identical to DVB-T and in PAL countries nearly always has 576 lines. If you were weird enough to connect a UK DVD players analogue output to a UHF PAL modulator you would get a standard 625 PAL output signal, just like broadcast PAL it will still only have 576 lines of picture info.

It's no coincidence that 720 x 576 x 25 = 10368000 and 720 x 480 x 30 also equals 10368000 (both NTSC and PAL based DVD's have the same data transfer requirements)

DVDVideo at 25fps mpeg2 compressed have only 2 allowable line counts 576 or 288, 29.97 mpeg2 compressed 480 or 240 lines.

[grahamlthompson]

Here's the content of a random 4:3 PAL DVD from my collection. Not a sign of 625 lines

General
Complete name
Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 1 024 MiB
Duration : 28mn 30s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 5 021 Kbps

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Duration : 28mn 30s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 4 473 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 9 800 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.431
Stream size : 912 MiB (89%)

Audio
ID : 189 (0xBD)-129 (0x81)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Muxing mode : DVD-Video
Duration : 28mn 30s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 448 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 91.4 MiB (9%)

[Nigel Goodwin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

Not sure where you are getting 625 from 625 lines are used for PAL analogue transmissions, there is only 576 lines of picture information.

Not sure why you think it's of any importance?, 576 visible lines is 625 line standard, just as 480 visible lines is 525 line standard.

The two standards are still called 625 and 525, just as they always were - even though that was never the visible number of lines.

[grahamlthompson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

Not sure why you think it's of any importance?, 576 visible lines is 625 line standard, just as 480 visible lines is 525 line standard.

The two standards are still called 625 and 525, just as they always were - even though that was never the visible number of lines.

Which is totally irrelevant to a DVD. Bit like saying DVB-T is PAL because it's 576i at 25fps.

[Nigel Goodwin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

Which is totally irrelevant to a DVD. Bit like saying DVB-T is PAL because it's 576i at 25fps.

Which is completely true - it's PAL standard, just like DVD.