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BT Sports Channel (Part 2)
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Ian Cleverly
10-09-2014
Freeview/Sky guide now updated to say that BT Sport 2 will show the Basketball World Cup Final this Sunday, rather than Évian Thonon Gaillard v Marseille in Ligue 1.
ep1987
10-09-2014
Awesome news; means i don't have to resort to a dodgy stream.
stv viewer
10-09-2014
Originally Posted by Ian Cleverly:
“Freeview/Sky guide now updated to say that BT Sport 2 will show the Basketball World Cup Final this Sunday, rather than Évian Thonon Gaillard v Marseille in Ligue 1.”

I take it the french footy will be on bt sport website
popeye13
10-09-2014
Originally Posted by stv viewer:
“I take it the french footy will be on bt sport website”

More than likely, unless the digital exclusive 'channel' is already scheduled for something else.
Mr Newshound
11-09-2014
BT Sport Extra currently testing on digital satellite...

Couple of screenshots at
- http://imgur.com/eS2E2Le

- http://imgur.com/oN29YMz

A little earlier the caption under screen 2 read "Ligue 1 Live Bordeaux v Bastia"
EyeonWorld
11-09-2014
Originally Posted by mlt11:
“I think BT broadly has 3 possible strategies it could follow:

1) Status Quo:
- Continue with current level of PL rights
- Continue with same strategy - ie free with BT broadband + standalone relatively cheap BT Sport subscription
- Pros: Strategy appears to be working very well - BT Consumer business achieving major turnaround at relatively low cost
- Cons: Limited scope for further long-term growth

2) Buy majority of PL rights including Sunday 4pm:
- Become the undisputed number 1 in Pay TV football
- Inflict serious damage on Sky business - both TV and broadband/phone
- Pros: Achieve huge step change in BT TV and BT Sport businesses; opportunity for massive growth
- Cons: Huge short-term cost - may mean substantial losses short-term; uncertainty how things would play out in medium term

3) Add one more PL package (but not Sunday 4pm):
- Would give an SS / BT split of 90 / 64
- Remain in number 2 Pay TV sports position; but a much stronger, closer number 2 to Sky Sports
- Pros: Would pave the way for continued, steady, incremental growth
- Cons: Significant additional cost but return is unclear - see below:

I actually think that Option 3) begs the most questions. It may seem the obvious answer - ie steady progression without having to spend an absolute fortune. But the issue is that it would still leave BT Sport in the clear number 2 position. This then leads to the following questions:

- With a 90/64 split, would there be a significant number of Sky Sports cancellations?
- If few SS cancellations, BT Sport remains a secondary subscription (***)
- How many extra people will subscribe for 64 PL games, as a secondary subscription, who wouldn't subscribe for 38?
- How much higher subscription price can BT charge for 64 PL games, as a secondary subscription, than they could for 38?
- Is there any incremental benefit to the broadband / phone business - ie how many would be tempted to get BT broadband / phone by 64 PL games who weren't tempted by 38?

I'm reminded of the ESPN document we saw at the time of BT's takeover which said the optimal position was for ESPN to have one PL package rather than two - because one brings in the diehards who want every TV game - whereas two costs twice as much but won't generate twice the revenue.

(***) Remember the Setanta submission to OFCOM which stated that "almost nobody" subscribed to Setanta who didn't also subscribe to Sky Sports. Of course BT has the "free" BT Sport with broadband / phone side of the business which Setanta didn't have - but the principle is still relevant to the "Pay" side if you are in the number 2 position - ie you are asking people to pay a second subscription - unless you are a close enough number 2 to get large numbers to cancel Sky Sports - which was the first question above!

My own view is that BT will go for Option 2) - and I think the CL is a huge pointer in that direction. But this post has gone on long enough - so I'll stop there - for now!”

Broad consensus here that you're on the right lines here. After all, you don't blow hundreds of millions on the CL/EL deal if you planning to coast along as number 2. Option 3 remains a viable fallback.

But Sky are not stupid. They know what's coming. Look at the marketing campaign. "More of the games that matter."

Equally, BT are starting to feel some regulatory heat and corporate questions about their spending on sport. They could blow Sky out by winning all packages but I'm not sure it's in BT interests.

The battlegrounds are the first picks and the package that controls the others. I could easily see BT trying to blow Sky out on those. And with the significant streamlining going on at Sky, I'll bet they'll try and focus their fire too. Perhaps key packages rather than numbers will be more important this time.

Also, the relationship between Sky and the PL is much stronger and longer term than it ever was with UEFA. Scudamore is no stranger to Sky towers. Look how much shameless brown nosing SSN do towards any Premier League initiative and the easy ride they gave Scudamore over his emails. Sky will not be dumped.

Which begs a question. .

What is the minimum that BT need to take no. 1 status? They won't get everything after all.

Is it all PL first picks and parity of numbers?
Do they need one mainstream summer sport, eg cricket?
PaulLFC
12-09-2014
Originally Posted by Mr Newshound:
“BT Sport Extra currently testing on digital satellite...

Couple of screenshots at
- http://imgur.com/eS2E2Le

- http://imgur.com/oN29YMz

A little earlier the caption under screen 2 read "Ligue 1 Live Bordeaux v Bastia"”

Interesting, looks like the digital exclusive matches might be moved here on non-Champions League nights once it's launched.

I'm assuming the extra channel was only in SD?
Gray77
12-09-2014
Originally Posted by EyeonWorld:
“What is the minimum that BT need to take no. 1 status? They won't get everything after all.”

Package D seems like the holy grail, but that is based on the assumption that the packages remain the same for the next 3 years.

However, even if they do remain the same would it be wise for BT to go all out for Package D because the quota limits on that pack are just as tight as they are currently for them in Package A. Sky's power doesn't just exist on Package D, it also exists though them being able to pick '1st pick' games as 2nd or 3rd picks games in different slots because they have all three packages that contain 2nd and 3rd pick weekend games.

If BT try to keep Package A then they could then aim to put everything into gaining these 3 packages that have 2nd picks (C, E or F). If they got those 3 they would limit Sky to the amount of real Grade A picks they could show in the 4pm Package D slot because Sky would be limited to 5 quota picks for each club.

Sky would then have to work out what games they felt were worthy of using in their Package D games, and they wouldn't be able to shuffle games around in order to have 1st pick games in 2nd pick slots. Man City v Liverpool, Tottenham v Liverpool and around the corner games like Arsenal v Man United are prime examples of games that Sky have put in 'non 1st pick' slots despite taking those weekends as ones that they 'control'. Without those 2nd pick packages they wouldn't be able to do that, and would either have to put those games at 4pm on Sunday (and thus getting into the same quota issues BT do with Package A) or simply not be able to show them.

But... Sky would still have to spend big, big money to get Package D, almost definitely more than they've ever spent on an individual PL football package before. For all that money they would (I would guess) have the controlling 1st pick in the last round and would have both games between City and Chelsea, both games between Liverpool and United and both games between City and United. But that would already max them out on City and United (if they needed to save a pick for R38) and it would lead BT to being able to pick lots of the Grade A games that Sky currently gobble up, and they'd be able to do so either through Package A or through one of the 2nd pick packages.

It would make it look like BT and Sky were almost level pegging in terms of the amount of marquee games they had, but BT would have gotten to that level without having to bid crazy money for Package D.
TLG86
12-09-2014
I had a go putting together what might happen (based on last season's fixtures) if BT had Package C, which we believe to have control of 2nd picks:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi...nt=file%2cxlsx
casinoman13
12-09-2014
Originally Posted by TLG86:
“I had a go putting together what might happen (based on last season's fixtures) if BT had Package C, which we believe to have control of 2nd picks:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi...nt=file%2cxlsx”

Thanks for that, it really only strengthens the view that come the next round of Prem rights in December BT must look at gaining controls over first and second picks.

Get another decent package for sure but controlling picks equally important if not more so.
casinoman13
12-09-2014
Originally Posted by Gray77:
“Package D seems like the holy grail, but that is based on the assumption that the packages remain the same for the next 3 years.

However, even if they do remain the same would it be wise for BT to go all out for Package D because the quota limits on that pack are just as tight as they are currently for them in Package A. Sky's power doesn't just exist on Package D, it also exists though them being able to pick '1st pick' games as 2nd or 3rd picks games in different slots because they have all three packages that contain 2nd and 3rd pick weekend games.

If BT try to keep Package A then they could then aim to put everything into gaining these 3 packages that have 2nd picks (C, E or F). If they got those 3 they would limit Sky to the amount of real Grade A picks they could show in the 4pm Package D slot because Sky would be limited to 5 quota picks for each club.

Sky would then have to work out what games they felt were worthy of using in their Package D games, and they wouldn't be able to shuffle games around in order to have 1st pick games in 2nd pick slots. Man City v Liverpool, Tottenham v Liverpool and around the corner games like Arsenal v Man United are prime examples of games that Sky have put in 'non 1st pick' slots despite taking those weekends as ones that they 'control'. Without those 2nd pick packages they wouldn't be able to do that, and would either have to put those games at 4pm on Sunday (and thus getting into the same quota issues BT do with Package A) or simply not be able to show them.

But... Sky would still have to spend big, big money to get Package D, almost definitely more than they've ever spent on an individual PL football package before. For all that money they would (I would guess) have the controlling 1st pick in the last round and would have both games between City and Chelsea, both games between Liverpool and United and both games between City and United. But that would already max them out on City and United (if they needed to save a pick for R38) and it would lead BT to being able to pick lots of the Grade A games that Sky currently gobble up, and they'd be able to do so either through Package A or through one of the 2nd pick packages.

It would make it look like BT and Sky were almost level pegging in terms of the amount of marquee games they had, but BT would have gotten to that level without having to bid crazy money for Package D.”

Great post Gray77, could not agree more, is there really a need for BT to try and get what they can?
No not really, like you say they could be in a strong position where they force Sky to bid loads but still get a decent return for themselves.
Could be a win win situation for them with im pretty sure Sky having to face facts they WILL lose a fair few game to what they have now.
popeye13
12-09-2014
The BT SPORT EXTRA logo.........
loyalsince
12-09-2014
Originally Posted by TLG86:
“I had a go putting together what might happen (based on last season's fixtures) if BT had Package C, which we believe to have control of 2nd picks:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi...nt=file%2cxlsx”

If sky get d, but not pack a or first choice second picka, i dont think they would prioritise last day. Much better to get 3-4 big games
TLG86
12-09-2014
Originally Posted by loyalsince:
“If sky get d, but not pack a or first choice second picka, i dont think they would prioritise last day. Much better to get 3-4 big games”

It would be interesting to see what happened. In the current set up Sky are able to manage their picks to allow them flexibility at the end of the season.

But in a scenario where BT have control of second picks, Sky and BT may go 'all out' to get the best picks possible and we could have a scenario where they've both maxed out on a certain team but still have picks in those packages on the last day.

It's been suggested that one of the packages (probably D) should have the ability to show all of the games on the final day of the season. I think that would be sensible as it would be a shame for an important game on the final day of the season to not be shown live due to the distribution of the packages.
Jonny_Bentley1
13-09-2014
Piers Morgan making Michael Owen uncomfortable on Fletch and Sav. Quite amusing really.
Igloo_Man
13-09-2014
Excellent as ever Gray77.

TLG86 - I've simulated last season's fixture list with BT having Package C myself, and have similarly found that it to have a massive impact on the quality of games BT gain, and Sky lose.

I've suggested it time and again, but assuming the packages remain the same, I do think BT may be best to try and prioritise Package C rather than Package D. The cost of Package D is going to be astronomical, and getting Package C instead would still guarantee some big games. But of course retaining Package A is not going to be a walkover!
mromega
13-09-2014
The vertical size of the "BT Box" has reduced, it's now a 16:9 shape and no longer had "BT Box" logo showing.

However it still appears during each replay, at least so far.
steveh31
13-09-2014
Owen's at it again "Ramsey's the most influencial player", "David Silva is the best player". Is there anyone who isn't the best in his opinion?
steveh31
13-09-2014
Originally Posted by mromega:
“The vertical size of the "BT Box" has reduced, it's now a 16:9 shape and no longer had "BT Box" logo showing.

However it still appears during each replay, at least so far.”

Oh yes it does still have BT Box
Jason C
13-09-2014
Originally Posted by steveh31:
“Oh yes it does still have BT Box”

It does now fade away though.
mromega
13-09-2014
Originally Posted by steveh31:
“Oh yes it does still have BT Box”

Ahh, it now disappears after 1 second rather than showing permanently, the logo that is.
popeye13
13-09-2014
I think the goon that designed the BT graphics such as the 'BT BOX' and the logo and scorebar at the bottom of the screen has been directed by the BT Sport boss, who of course has an unhealthy obsession with US TV....

The BT BOX is now widescreen, but still has that logo on it for a second... Used too often and gets in the f-ing way all the time!
Owen is beyond a joke of commentator, he is an utter shambles to say the least!
Even Sky have taken to ripping the piss out of him now too on 'A League Of Their Own'
IanFergus
13-09-2014
I wonder if BEIN Sport will come into the equation, possibly as a partner with BT.
mlt11
13-09-2014
Jake: "Arsenal are the side with the shots on target"

At the very same second the graphic comes up:

Shots on Target:
Arsenal - 2
Man City - 3

It was absolutely perfectly choreographed.
Jonny_Bentley1
13-09-2014
Good game Ars-Mcy though, in comparison to the two 0-0's before it. I'd expect good figures given that Arsenal are 3rd/4th biggest draw in the league and City -- the Champions -- are 5th.
Certainly in the excess of 700,000 I'd expect.
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