Totally agree with this.

The difference between Sky and BT in terms of co-commentators is huge - Neville, Smith, Provan and Hinchcliffe are without doubt very good and Quinn is decent enough whereas Michael Owen and Robbie Savage must be high on the list of all-time worst in that role.

The thing being two that BT regularly use decent people like Beglin/Murphy/Higginbottom on their European coverage as co-commentators yet don't use them on their bigger games and use total dross instead.

Just remembered that there was a BT here on DS, so thought I would re-post something that I left on Commentators thread. Apologies for posting twice as I'm sure most read both threads, but it does have some of my thoughts on BT... Probably brought out by Savage's 'Commentary' earlier!



It really does worry me that BT only have a matter of months to get their house in order before the Champions League arrives at their doorstep. There are a series of problems with their coverage which seem to be evident throughout many of their broadcasts that I see, there is very little 'wrong' with them, in a sense-there is nothing that is so horrendously bad it stops anybody (well at least me) watching! Well, apart from Robbie Savage-but they are not the only broadcaster guilty employing him! It's just that their coverage seems to lack anything special, anything that makes you want to watch their coverage even if the game looks a bit of a dud.

First Problem: Co-Commentator This is arguably their most serious problem, there is a distinct lack of a quality co-commentator on BT. It is a very difficult role to master with most broadcasters struggling to find a perfect fit, but BT's in general are very poor. Owen is a decent pundit and I enjoy his views when he joins the pre-match presentation etc but he just doesn't seem suited to co-commentary, no harm in that but I just don't see why BT persist with him in that role, when it doesn't really work for Owen or for BT with plenty of negative feedback. I'd just move him to a punditry role.
McAllister is ok, but nothing special and you wouldn't really want him commentating on a high profile Champions League game.
Then there is Savage, who today called Brighton players 'Championship quality' as if that were a bad thing-they are Championship players because they play in the Championship. But idiotic moments like that aside, he just lacks in any sort of technical knowledge, he seemingly growls and shouts and tells us frequently how great the game is and how much he is enjoying it, without adding to the viewers enjoyment of the game. The role of the co-commentator for me is one that only rarely needs to steal the limelight-often you just need to comment on the game, give little bits of info to the audience and just subtly add to their enjoyment of the game. Savage is anything but subtle, and for me not enjoyable.
The ideas for possible replacements-Well Andy Gray-I don't particularly like the man and after his comments it would be surprise to see him back on UK TV, but he is undoubtedly talented in the role and it better than all on BT's list currently.
Danny Murphy, would be my personal choice, he's strong, funny, opinionated with a good knowledge of a wide range of clubs and he really impressed during the World Cup. Or even Phil Neville, who would be a very good signing either as a pundit or a commentator-has really impressed this year on the BBC after some much over-hyped criticism in the Summer.

Second Problem: Pitchside Presentation Although it brings out some of the better qualities of Humphrey it just appears to result in a lack of gravitas for the show. It works for BT's matey style which is what they seem to be pushing and for many games in the Premier League it works. Yet for the Champions League it won't, it's a competition that deserves gravitas, which can be given from pitchside but it's harder to achieve. Also the atmosphere is quite a distracting one and, for me, it feels as if pundits cannot fully develop their thoughts, this seems most evident for Scholes-who seemed to develop his thoughts better when he was in a studio with Sky last season. I don't like it when ITV or Sky try pitchside either, so it's not a criticism just levied at BT, but once again is one that is most apparent in their programming.

Third Problem: Presenter I really like Jake Humphrey, he was brilliant on the F1 and when he was signed by BT I thought it was a brilliant choice. He is still good today but he fails to bring out the best in pundits by skirting over issues, asking just the one or two questions on an issue, rather than really drilling in to an issue. However I don't think he is helped by the next problem.

Fourth Problem: Changing Punditry line-up Well Macca is always there and is solid and should definitely be a part of their Champions League coverage. But he struggles to really find a chemistry with his punditry partner, normally because of the fact that they're a guest etc. It just results in a lack of debate and discussion, you would never think it possible with the way that BT currently work that you could just have three pundits discussing and moving an issue along with intelligence creating fascinating viewing (like Henry, Souness and Neville did last week-Chamberlain is a master at allowing this to happen-although this particularly example was a bit of an all out argument, but there are plenty of times it has happened) it is likely with strong pundits but outside Scholes (Who I like but is underused) and Macca there is a lack of these strong pundits on BT.

However it's not all negative from me, there are many positives for BT, I think their main commentators are strong, Darke and Fletcher are a good top two and I like the rotation policy that BT have with these. Also they have plenty to build on.
Also maybe I'm being overly negative-it's easy to forget that BT have only had TV coverage for 18 months but due to the speed that they have become a main player in the market it does leave them open to criticism and there is time for improvements but there doesn't seem to have been any progression this season.

Excessively long post over!!

On a positive note, I really enjoyed the BBC coverage this weekend and I know it sounds stupid but the FA Cup does just seem like a higher profile and better competition on the Beeb!

Agree with much of this.
I think Champions League has to be presented by James Richardson after BT have apparently failed in their bid to get Gary Linekar on board. He's obviously already contracted to them, is very well liked and has lots of experience at presenting European football.
Also, they need to involve their EFS team along with Richardson somewhere in their coverage. It would be easy to leave them out, but also naive as they have as much insight as many of the ex-pro pundits and are again likable characters.
For the PL coverage, I would stick with pitch-side coverage as it offers BT a USP of some sort when presenting their coverage of the league. I'd stick with Humphrey as he's a typically decent presenter, if not an Ed Chamberlian or Gary Linekar. But then I agree that you have to have a set formula. I think I'd have Paul Scholes and Steve McManamann on weekly with one other pundit each week, meaning their two biggest and best named pundits get some chemistry.
Agree with poor Savage commentary. Personally, I feel he's pretty good on Fletch and Sav and football show's that are 'less serious' but must be kept away from any live football coverage. Andy Gray (because he's the best in the business) and I agree with Danny Murphy and perhaps Beglin for that role.
Michael Owen though deserves a special mention. He might struggle as a co-comm but is certainly a decent analyst and better than the likes of Jamie Redknapp over on Sky.
Owen Hargreaves also isn't a bad pundit and is always firm in his opinions.
David James should be on the scrapheap though as he unfortunately lacks that insight and I'm not keen on Wright and Keown.

Michael Owen is a great pundit. but is an appalling commentator.
But BT are sticking with him out of stubbornness and nothing more.
Removing him now would be admitting everyone else was right and BT, after a few years were wrong and they're not going to do that, unfortunately.
Same as the number of complaints BT got with the scorebar and logo at the bottom of the screen, they ignored it.
Id like to see Macca & Scholes weekly yes, i think them too, with the experience they've had as professional players and the honours they've won in their time plus the fact they're not boring, is something BT MUST capitalise upon.
Id like to see James Richardson get the UCL gig but he won't.

As for Robbie Savage, i was lost for words at how utterly stupid he was today on commentary. Screaming how someone should foul his opponent "Do a professional foul" was something he screamed 3 times!
The BT BOX IMHO should be made illegal, its so ****ing irritating and gets in the way ALL the time!!!!!
But BT just willfully ignore that fact and carry on with it.

IMHO BT has some SERIOUS improvements to make before the UCL comes along.
They've ****ed up the PL and FA Cup coverage by reducing it to a joke, expect the same from the UCL unless they get their act together and fast!
And yes, heads should roll at the top, especially the clueless fool running BT Sport at the moment!

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Sunset and Vine has some top people working for them, and the same people who revolutionised cricket coverage the world over (and that's no exaggeration - they introduced snickometer, hawk-eye, enhanced stump cameras alongside many format changes to the coverage) are now running BT Sport's football coverage (namely Gary Franses and Dylan Jane). Unfortunately, it clearly isn't working at the moment. That may be down to edicts from higher up the chain (the matey, family-friendly style of presentation, for example) but also might be because football can't be revolutionised in the same way as cricket.

Some excellent points were made re Jake Humphrey's presenting and the difference between F1 and football when it comes to presentation on the Football Commentators Thread, which I won't rehash here, but I will look a bit at the difference between football and cricket coverage.

There's no room for manoeuvre in a football match. I remember an interview with Dylan Jane before the start of BT's first season on the air, in which he said that football coverage hadn't really moved on from the early 90s, and all it consisted of was camera 1 panning around, with the odd close-up and replay. And he's right. The point is, there's little you can do on top of that within the match coverage. BT have tried to add in the BT Box to add a bit of revolution to the match direction. And I think, on paper, it's a good idea - after all, we have high-resolution displays these days with widescreen safe-areas, so using a PiP is not a bad idea. Unfortunately, it has been lamentably thought through - its principal device appears to be showing continuing live play whilst a replay is being shown. A good idea in principle. But replays aren't being framed to avoid the box, so often key action is obscured by it. They keep changing the size of the box and it's location/manner in that it animates on, so you can't get used to it, and you feel that even they haven't found the optimum position or usage for it. And the frequency of its use keeps altering too - just when you think that they might have found the right balance, and have decided to use it sparingly, the next match they show uses far too much BT box. And when they use it to show a manager standing on the touchline, that's just ridiculous.

I can think of good uses for it - for example, a player commits a foul, and whilst the replay is showing the foul, the BT Box shows live shots of the referee dealing with the player and the awarding of a yellow/red card. Or, a goal is scored, and further replays are shown full-screen, whilst the kick-off appears on the BT Box. Those are good uses for it, if managed properly. But it is still not being managed properly.

Otherwise, the match presentation is pretty standard - the bottom score-bar I don't mind. It's a neat graphics scheme that they have and is quite refreshing. Again, the wider safe-areas that we have these days helps this decision. When Sky briefly tried a bottom score-bar in 2007, we still had 4:3 safe areas and they were hindered by that. BT's implementation is far better.

As for the presentation - it is clear that pitchside presentation just does not work in the Premier League, as access is not given by the clubs. If you're going to do pitchside, then walk around the ground, sample the atmosphere, drop into the players tunnel and show us the interior of the dressing room area and behind the scenes. Ideally you would then have a sit-down presentation area (perhaps a dugout, or something similar) to have a proper chat with the pundits. Channel 4 cricket did this very well - the pundits would often sit down in seats within the stands to have a pre-match chat. This gave across the atmosphere of the occasion, but didn't have them standing needlessly around a table looking foolish. For example, this clip from the final day of the 2005 Ashes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iFV...U&spfreload=10

If you can't get the access for this kind of thing (and BT blatantly can't) then just use a studio for the main presentation, with a secondary touchline presenter if needed. See BBC's FA Cup coverage this season - on Friday, Gary Lineker was in the studio with Dan Walker on the pitch for atmosphere/reaction, and Jaqui Oatley was on the pitch yesterday.

As lots of people have said, in many ways the pieces are there, and the talent behind the scenes is certainly there, but as soon as you think they have turned a corner, the coverage goes back to square one. Having said that, the Champions League brings its own challenges - BT will have to mix in with the UEFA branding, for example, so we will be seeing a top score graphic, and there may well be other restrictions, too. I can't see BT pitchside for the Champions League final, for example.

I think it's important to emphasise that the Premier League coverage is only one part of BT's output and much of their other football coverage is different. I think the Conference coverage is very good, plus Baker and Kelly's show is I think the best football-related show on telly. Then others have said how much they enjoy the European Football Show. So I think it's a bit pointless to look at their Premier League coverage and say their Champions League coverage is going to be exactly like that, ergo BT are rubbish. I certainly don't see the point in writing off coverage because Fletch and Sav is a bit heavy on the banter - it's opposite Soccer AM and nobody writes off Sky's coverage because of that show. BT Sport is a channel, not one single show.

I prefer the pitchside presentation to how they did it before with the studio, because although the studio looked nice they always seemed far removed from the action, like Sky are on Saturday nights. The one thing that does seem to have been a change for the worse in their presentation is that they seem to have abandoned any proper films or reports - like the one they did before their first Merseyside derby which I thought was great - in favour of just more aimless chat, which is a real shame. But at least we don't have twenty minutes of Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain playing FIFA anymore.

To be honest I don't see the Champions League requiring any great deal more gravitas. If you're good enough to cover Liverpool vs Arsenal, surely you're good enough to cover Liverpool vs Ludogorets? And the main game might get the big guns on Sky but the other British game of an evening has often been Ben Shephard and Dwight Yorke or Paul Merson in a cupboard. Hardly BAFTA-winning stuff.

Happy days-- Copa Libertadores back with Premier Sports after two duff seasons with BT

PS might not be able to show all the games live as they also show the NHL but at least they show the game on tape delay basis the following day rather than these naff 90 mins (=72 mins of action or sometimes even less) highlights packages! Wondeful!

Anyone know where I can see Bt sport extra listing for the future please

Same place as all the other listings BT website

Yeah, here.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sh...2F%3B552%3B552








http://sport.bt.com/sport-football/t...11363932803705

Thank you will it always be on that webpage

Nice unedited chant of your still a w****r there

To be fair that is actually a sensible question. Like the BBC Red Button it can be bugger finding out what it shown and when.

Same place as where everything else you keep on asking...
The internet, which is also where DS Forums is located on. Strange that....

Although I am disappointed it seems BT will overlook James Richardson for their CL coverage, you can't get a much better presenter than the dependable Gary Linekar. Certainly a good anchor if he does sign on the dotted line but I can't help feeling not using Richardson is a mistake. Hopefully he gets dabs on the Europa League with the EFS team at least!

Has anyone heard of any figures for their cup games during this past weekend?

Source ITV Media:
Liverpool v Bolton 682k
Brighton v Arsenal 676k
Rochdale v Stoke (below 425k as not in the top 10 digital figures)

That last figure is hardly surprising.

Is the transfer deadline day trailer a spoof of SSN's coverage or are they really going for yellow too?

BT latest quarterly results out today.

Mixed picture for BT Consumer I think (Consumer = phone + TV + broadband):

- Financials look very good - revenue growth up 7% vs prior year; EBITDA up 43% vs PY

- TV net adds (ie the BT TV Service, not BT Sport) 45,000 - very similar to recent quarters, no discernible trend

- Share of industry broadband net adds 46% - right back to where they were pre BT Sport (only fractionally down on 48% in prior quarter, but still the lowest since at least 2011/12).

Anyone interested in detailed info:

Slide 5/11 for Consumer KPIs and slide 8/11 for Broadband KPIs:

http://www.btplc.com/Sharesandperfor.../q315-KPIs.pdf

Slide 16/25 for Consumer financials:

http://www.btplc.com/Sharesandperfor...315-slides.pdf

I received a letter from BT today promising big savings if I ring the number. I assume it is a sales pitch for BT Broadband?

Anyone rang it?

Cheers,

Henry

Is Steve McManaman investigating BT Sports crimes in that ridiculous hat?

Strong results.

No BT Box at all today, what has happened have they started listening?

Nope, it appears at least twice during the first half. Once on the 18th minute applause and again when the Hull goal was chalked off.

Do BT have two match directors, because there does seem to be a significant difference from week to week with the use of the BT Box.