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BT Sports Channel (Part 2)
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mlt11
12-08-2013
Originally Posted by KNs47:
“The total Sky subscriber number is often headlined, but does anyone know subscriber numbers for Sky Sports?”

Not publicly reported but just under 7m:

- Approx 6m on Sky platform (5,850,000 was leaked on DS by a Sky employee about 18 months ago, Sky last officially reported just over 5m back in 2007)

- Approx 750,000 on VM

- A small number more on other platforms.
1andrew1
12-08-2013
Originally Posted by Mr Newshound:
“"BT Sport passes the million mark in just three months" http://www.btplc.com/news/articles/s...15f416117c8%7d”

Quote:
“ The Guardian: BT said the majority of its sports customers were existing broadband subscribers , who get the service for free. By comparison, Setanta, a previous challenger to BSkyB's dominance, took four months to reach the one million customer mark, though they were all paying customers.”

http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...lion-customers
bottleofbest
12-08-2013
Originally Posted by 1andrew1:
“http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...lion-customers”

I'm shocked at that. There again, Setanta was across all platforms. What did Setanta charge again? Was it £10?
casinoman13
12-08-2013
Originally Posted by 1andrew1:
“http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...lion-customers”

Can only be good news for BT, will be interesting to see what they would aim for after the Prem season has started?

Question here however, I know it may of been asked but how come the Rugby is fairing well so far on the channel?
Resonance
12-08-2013
Originally Posted by bottleofbest:
“I'm shocked at that. There again, Setanta was across all platforms. What did Setanta charge again? Was it £10?”

From memory it was more I think. £12.99 comes to mind.
derek500
12-08-2013
Originally Posted by bottleofbest:
“I'm shocked at that. There again, Setanta was across all platforms. What did Setanta charge again? Was it £10?”

Seems stunningly good figures for Setanta. Wonder if they're including the Virgin XL bundled customers?
mlt11
12-08-2013
Originally Posted by Resonance:
“Not sure about BT, but from memory only 6% of Sky's revenue is from advertising.”

That's correct.

And advertising revenue will be even less important to BT than it is to Sky - because the primary role of BT Sport is to boost BT broadband / phone.

Conclusion: Advertising revenue is of trivial importance to BT Sport. It's so trivial it isn't going to be a factor in any decision making.

But the point about viewing figures is a bit different - BT won't want bad publicity re low viewing figures but ultimately it doesn't matter much.
mlt11
12-08-2013
Originally Posted by bottleofbest:
“I'm shocked at that. There again, Setanta was across all platforms. What did Setanta charge again? Was it £10?”

Originally Posted by derek500:
“Seems stunningly good figures for Setanta. Wonder if they're including the Virgin XL bundled customers?”

Pargraphs 2 and 3 of that Guradian article both contain errors:

Para 2: It was BT that had 833,000 Pay TV customers, not BT Sport (at that point). Some of those 833,000 won't get BT Sport. Indeed BT announced the 833,000 Pay TV number at the same time as the 500,000 BT Sport number.

Para 3; "BT had previously said that 500,000 customers of its total pay-TV base had signed up for its sports channels between 10 May and 25 July, with the majority being existing broadband customers". That quote is also wrong - some of the 500,000 were Sky customers with BT broadband so getting BT sport for free so not part of the BT "pay-TV base".

This journalism is a complete shambles.

Bearing in mind the above I would be very cautious about the comment re Setanta. Setanta were generally believed to have got 1.2m direct subscribers (ie excluding VM XL) at their peak but I don't recall seeing 1m after 4 months.

There are 1.8m VM XL homes so it can't refer to that - number will have risen but would have been well over 1m when Setanta started.
1andrew1
12-08-2013
According to this Telegraph article from 2007, Setanta had 2.5m customers of whom 1.4 were Virgin XL customers. Is this where the idea of 1.4m Setanta subscribers came from via poor editing at The Guardian?
(sorry mlt11, this confuses your post below!)
mlt11
12-08-2013
Deleted too!
bottleofbest
12-08-2013
Originally Posted by derek500:
“Seems stunningly good figures for Setanta. Wonder if they're including the Virgin XL bundled customers?”

Yeah, just a bit, with figures like that how would they have gone bust?
Originally Posted by mlt11:
“Pargraphs 2 and 3 of that Guradian article both contain errors:

Para 2: It was BT that had 833,000 Pay TV customers, not BT Sport (at that point). Some of those 833,000 won't get BT Sport. Indeed BT announced the 833,000 Pay TV number at the same time as the 500,000 BT Sport number.

Para 3; "BT had previously said that 500,000 customers of its total pay-TV base had signed up for its sports channels between 10 May and 25 July, with the majority being existing broadband customers". That quote is also wrong - some of the 500,000 were Sky customers with BT broadband so getting BT sport for free so not part of the BT "pay-TV base".

This journalism is a complete shambles.

Bearing in mind the above I would be very cautious about the comment re Setanta. Setanta were generally believed to have got 1.2m direct subscribers (ie excluding VM XL) at their peak but I don't recall seeing 1m after 4 months.

There are 1.8m VM XL homes so it can't refer to that - number will have risen but would have been well over 1m when Setanta started.”

The Guardian have been terrible since the announcement there was even going to be a BT Sport channel. They have been truly lazy.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1:
“According to this Telegraph article from 2007, Setanta had 2.5m customers of whom 1.4 were Virgin XL customers. Is this where the idea of 1.4m Setanta subscribers came from via poor editing at The Guardian?
(sorry mlt11, this confuses your post below!)”

Seems much more realistic.
mlt11
12-08-2013
Originally Posted by 1andrew1:
“According to this Telegraph article from 2007, Setanta had 2.5m customers of whom 1.4 were Virgin XL customers. Is this where the idea of 1.4m Setanta subscribers came from via poor editing at The Guardian?
(sorry mlt11, this confuses your post below!)”

Sorry - I can't see any mention of 2.5m Setanta customers in that article.

It says Setanta had 200,000 subscribers - as of July 2007, ie before its PL contract started.

It then says it would go into another 1.4m VM XL homes.

(Ignore mention of 1.4m viewers - that is obviously wrong!)
rj414i
12-08-2013
Originally Posted by casinoman13:
“Can only be good news for BT, will be interesting to see what they would aim for after the Prem season has started?

Question here however, I know it may of been asked but how come the Rugby is fairing well so far on the channel?”

Rugby is fairing well because it is popular, 13k at Kingsholme (Gloucester) on a Thursday Evening for a 7's tournament, even thou it's not football

My prime viewing will be for the rugby. I know of 5 other people who have BTS for the rugby (3 swapped broadband providers).

There are large parts of the country that enjoy rugby.
bottleofbest
12-08-2013
Originally Posted by rj414i:
“Rugby is fairing well because it is popular, 13k at Kingsholme (Gloucester) on a Thursday Evening for a 7's tournament, even thou it's not football

My prime viewing will be for the rugby. I know of 5 other people who have BTS for the rugby (3 swapped broadband providers).

There are large parts of the country that enjoy rugby.”

Agreed, It's the second sport of the country. People talk of Rugby as if it's second rate and it isn't. It has a hardcore fanbase. Given that's it's now easier and cheaper to watch, it's bound to get some good viewing figures.
casinoman13
12-08-2013
I've posted the following on the commentator's thread but also thought id post it on here as obviously has a lot to do with BT, if anyone could get a link it would be great.

There was a long and interesting article in the Telegraph today about the up and coming battle between BT and Sky, some reason I cant paste but the conclusion ive pasted below, quite interesting and sure many would disagree.

Screen test: how the teams match up

Presenter

Sky Ed Chamberlain: Unflappable, dependable, unassuming. The James Milner of broadcasting.

BT Jake Humphrey: The BBC’s former F1 presenter faces a big step-up to Premier League level.

Chief pundit

Sky Jamie Redknapp: Rarely misplaces a pass, now can he add some flair to his game?

BT Owen Hargreaves: Thoughtful midfield operator capable of attacking surge.

Commentator

Sky Martin Tyler: The grizzled veteran, still banging them in for fun after four decades in the job.

BT Ian Darke He has been recalled from the United States and is poised for his big comeback.

Chief analyst

Sky Gary Neville: Peerless. The Spanish call him El Pundíto Fantástico. Not really.

BT Michael Owen: Excellent pedigree for his new role off the pitch. Will want some big early performances to settle the nerves.


Jamie redknapp chief pundit.....interesting.
sheff71
12-08-2013
Originally Posted by casinoman13:
“I've posted the following on the commentator's thread but also thought id post it on here as obviously has a lot to do with BT, if anyone could get a link it would be great.

There was a long and interesting article in the Telegraph today about the up and coming battle between BT and Sky, some reason I cant paste but the conclusion ive pasted below, quite interesting and sure many would disagree.

Screen test: how the teams match up

Presenter

Sky Ed Chamberlain: Unflappable, dependable, unassuming. The James Milner of broadcasting.

BT Jake Humphrey: The BBC’s former F1 presenter faces a big step-up to Premier League level.

Chief pundit

Sky Jamie Redknapp: Rarely misplaces a pass, now can he add some flair to his game?

BT Owen Hargreaves: Thoughtful midfield operator capable of attacking surge.

Commentator

Sky Martin Tyler: The grizzled veteran, still banging them in for fun after four decades in the job.

BT Ian Darke He has been recalled from the United States and is poised for his big comeback.

Chief analyst

Sky Gary Neville: Peerless. The Spanish call him El Pundíto Fantástico. Not really.

BT Michael Owen: Excellent pedigree for his new role off the pitch. Will want some big early performances to settle the nerves.


Jamie redknapp chief pundit.....interesting.”

Certainly one of Sky's top assets is Martin Tyler, been the best for a long time now. Ian Darke always a top radio man, not sure i've heard him on tv though?

As for the Chief Pundits, two dull choices there!

At Chief Analyst, Neville is the best - I hope for BT's sake that Owen is more interesting than he ever was on MOTD!

Sky's other top offering is Soccer Saturday, with Jeff & co - to be honest there's been many a time when there's been a Sky game on at 12:45 previously, and the Soccer Saturday stuff has been far better viewing If Jeff were to be tempted to BT though, that'd be a game-changer..
PaulLFC
12-08-2013
Originally Posted by casinoman13:
“I've posted the following on the commentator's thread but also thought id post it on here as obviously has a lot to do with BT, if anyone could get a link it would be great.

There was a long and interesting article in the Telegraph today about the up and coming battle between BT and Sky, some reason I cant paste but the conclusion ive pasted below, quite interesting and sure many would disagree.

Screen test: how the teams match up

Presenter

Sky Ed Chamberlain: Unflappable, dependable, unassuming. The James Milner of broadcasting.

BT Jake Humphrey: The BBC’s former F1 presenter faces a big step-up to Premier League level.

Chief pundit

Sky Jamie Redknapp: Rarely misplaces a pass, now can he add some flair to his game?

BT Owen Hargreaves: Thoughtful midfield operator capable of attacking surge.

Commentator

Sky Martin Tyler: The grizzled veteran, still banging them in for fun after four decades in the job.

BT Ian Darke He has been recalled from the United States and is poised for his big comeback.

Chief analyst

Sky Gary Neville: Peerless. The Spanish call him El Pundíto Fantástico. Not really.

BT Michael Owen: Excellent pedigree for his new role off the pitch. Will want some big early performances to settle the nerves.


Jamie redknapp chief pundit.....interesting.”

I think they've just thrown that list together to be honest.

Owen as an analyst? I haven't seen him analyse anything yet, not to the standard Neville does, and hopefully Carragher will, anyway.

The majority of pundits and analysts are dreadful. Neville is good, although the standard to beat isn't exactly high. Decent debut for Carragher in the preview show, so hopefully he's good also. The European pundits BT had on their Bundesliga/Ligue 1 preview shows and Sunday Night Football are excellent too. McManaman is the best of BT's premier league pundits.

Owen is annoying and boring. Surprised he was made a pundit, even more surprised that he got a commentary role!
casinoman13
12-08-2013
Originally Posted by sheff71:
“Certainly one of Sky's top assets is Martin Tyler, been the best for a long time now. Ian Darke always a top radio man, not sure i've heard him on tv though?
As for the Chief Pundits, two dull choices there!

At Chief Analyst, Neville is the best - I hope for BT's sake that Owen is more interesting than he ever was on MOTD!

Sky's other top offering is Soccer Saturday, with Jeff & co - to be honest there's been many a time when there's been a Sky game on at 12:45 previously, and the Soccer Saturday stuff has been far better viewing If Jeff were to be tempted to BT though, that'd be a game-changer..”

Darke hasn't done radio work for a long time now are you thinking of Darren Fletcher?
sheff71
12-08-2013
Originally Posted by bottleofbest:
“Agreed, It's the second sport of the country. People talk of Rugby as if it's second rate and it isn't. It has a hardcore fanbase. Given that's it's now easier and cheaper to watch, it's bound to get some good viewing figures.”

I think many would feel that cricket is the second sport - and certainly with Sky's excellent coverage (again today), they'll always get a good customer base on Sky Sports. If BTS were able to take the cricket from Sky...

I think it's fair to say both rugby union and cricket are significatly more important at international level, though rugby does have a solid hardcore at club level. Does BT have the European club matches?

I'm a bit surprised that 27k is seen as good viewing figures for the rugby (I thought they'd expect much higher), but to be honest none of the BT viewing figures in the first few weeks really mean too much, as there's the novelty value of getting a freebie at the moment... if they're still getting good figures on the lesser programs in a few months time, that'll be far more important. And of course, that their PL figures hold up.

I would have thought that while to BT the viewing figures aren't the be all and end all, to the sports involved it will be important, and if they're getting poor figures over a period of time, it could affect their decisions at the next rights sales? Obviously the same applies to Sky for the sports they cover too.
sheff71
12-08-2013
Originally Posted by casinoman13:
“Darke hasn't done radio work for a long time now are you thinking of Darren Fletcher?”

Certainly not Darren Fletcher, can't stand him, very annoying. I think I'm remembering Ian Darke from his radio days in boxing, obviously a while ago and he must've been impressive to have remembered him Of course he was also a regular Sky commentator for a while too.
1andrew1
12-08-2013
Originally Posted by mlt11:
“Sorry - I can't see any mention of 2.5m Setanta customers in that article.

It says Setanta had 200,000 subscribers - as of July 2007, ie before its PL contract started.

It then says it would go into another 1.4m VM XL homes.

(Ignore mention of 1.4m viewers - that is obviously wrong!)”

Apologies - wrong Telegraph article, correct one is from 31/07/2007. This suggests the 2.5m customers breaks down as:
1.4m Virgin Media XL customers
0.7m Irish direct Setanta subscribers
0.4m UK direct Setanta subscribers

The interesting aspect is the low number of UK direct subscribers.
Quote:
“ Daily Telegraph

Of those [1.1m direct] subscribers only 400,000 are in the UK, but Setanta executives are confident they will see a huge increase in customers once the new season kicks off.
The Irish company refuse to disclose subscriber targets but it is understood they are hoping to secure 1 million customers in Britain by the end of the season.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...lenge-Sky.html
mlt11
12-08-2013
Originally Posted by 1andrew1:
“Apologies - wrong Telegraph article, correct one is from 31/07/2007. This suggests the 2.5m customers breaks down as:
1.4m Virgin Media XL customers
0.7m Irish direct Setanta subscribers
0.4m UK direct Setanta subscribers

The interesting aspect is the low number of UK direct subscribers.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...lenge-Sky.html”

OK, many thanks - that makes sense.

Re UK direct subscribers - remember that that was before Setanta's UK PL rights started in mid August 2007.

I think it's widely accepted that Setanta ended up peaking with over 1m direct UK subscribers - probably around 1.2m. But we don't know when that peak would have been in the period between August 2007 and when they went bust in Summer 2009.
1andrew1
12-08-2013
Originally Posted by mlt11:
“OK, many thanks - that makes sense.

Re UK direct subscribers - remember that that was before Setanta's UK PL rights started in mid August 2007.

I think it's widely accepted that Setanta ended up peaking with over 1m direct UK subscribers - probably around 1.2m. But we don't know when that peak would have been in the period between August 2007 and when they went bust in Summer 2009.”

In July 2007 Irish Setanta subscriber figures were reported as 0.7m. With Setanta Ireland now bundling BT Sport in with its own channels, can we assume that BT's Irish subscriber figures should reach 0.7m as well? For the record, the bundle cost €16pm on UPC and €19.99pm/€199.99pa on Sky.
mlt11
12-08-2013
Originally Posted by 1andrew1:
“In July 2007 Irish Setanta subscriber figures were reported as 0.7m. With Setanta Ireland now bundling BT Sport in with its own channels, can we assume that BT's Irish subscriber figures should reach 0.7m as well? For the record, the bundle cost €16pm on UPC and €19.99pm/€199.99pa on Sky.”

That would sound logical but I really don't know anything about the ROI market so the position would need to be confirmed.
1andrew1
13-08-2013
Originally Posted by mlt11:
“That would sound logical but I really don't know anything about the ROI market so the position would need to be confirmed.”

Agreed. As the press will be comparing BT's reach to Setanta's, my calculation of Setanta's maximum reach would be:
1.2m UK direct subscribers
1.8m Virgin Media XL subscribers
0.7m Irish direct subscribers
====
3.7m

If VM signs a deal with BT to show the channels, then this will be making the headlines over the weekend along with BT's inaugural EPL coverage. If not, I would expect BT to lump in its Irish subscribers and announce new subscriber numbers have exceeded 2m.
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