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BT Sports Channel (Part 2)
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mlt11
15-08-2013
Originally Posted by Mr Newshound:
“I'd also add the timescale issues. ESPN launching in the wake of Setanta's demise was very rushed, it was simply easier to tag on to existing systems where possible (using Sky for customer service, ad sales, football production etc).”

Yes, good point.

Though if there had been any reason for ESPN to be its own retailer it could have switched at some stage later on.

There wasn't any such reason - because Sky has an absolutely collosal marketing and retailing operation - on a completely different scale to anything that would have been practical for ESPN.
Readingfan
15-08-2013
Originally Posted by AJ990:
“Little error during the U21 match tonight. The on screen graphic at the beginning of the second half named the stadium as "Bramill Lane" and as I type they missed a goal as they were on a replay.

EDIT: To be fair it was an error by the keeper and out of the blue”

Good job it wasn't a Premier League match! Don't the company providing the footage have to pay a huge fine if they miss a goal on BT?!
Digi Man
15-08-2013
Originally Posted by tony le mesmer:
“You do know Sky can't pull the plug right? BT broadcast and retail their own channel, on Sky's open platform.”

Maybe it's time for Sky to challenge the Ofcom regulation that rules their platform must be open to all other broadcasters.

I've personally always been a big supporter of Sky's open platform policy, but clearly in light of the BT Sport/Virgin deal (that includes multirooom) it'd be in Sky subscribers' interests for other broadcasters to have to negotiate a deal with Sky to gain access to their platform.
ep1987
15-08-2013
A certain BT employee said he was 100% certain Virgin XL customers wouldn't get the channel for free
duffle
15-08-2013
Does this deal mean that MLB baseball will be show on Virgin via ESPN ?
Igloo_Man
15-08-2013
Considering it's taken until two days before the start of the season for BT and Virgin to agree this deal, I suspect that this wasn't what BT were aiming for in negotiations with Virgin.

BT would surely have preferred to have their platform as the only one offering BT Sport for free to create a unique selling point.

Instead a possible shift now could be Sky customers who don't wish to change their broadband provider but who see that they can get all the sport offerings that Sky have on Virgin (including BT Sport free) making the move to Virgin for TV.

And thus BT don't gain anything in such a situation.

Also worth pointing out the THREE year deal. Could this be an early indicator that BT Sport will remain free to BT Broadband customers for three years? Otherwise that would be a real kick in the teeth to them.
Radiomike
15-08-2013
Originally Posted by mlt11:
“A wholesale deal with Sky makes no sense for BT.

If BT can act as retailer on the Sky platform, why wouldn't it?

The only reason ESPN did a wholesale deal with Sky was to benefit from Sky's marketing and retailing operation and avoid incurring its own customer service plus admin costs.

But BT has a massive marketing and customer service operation anyway. And BT wants to act as retailer to sell BT broadband.

There is zero chance of BT Sport operating as any kind of "basic channel" on Sky - because the Sky platform has a substantial number of people who will pay the £12 / £15 for BT Sport. A far, far fewer proportion of VM customers would pay £12 / £15 for BT Sport which is why it makes sense to be a basic channel on VM - just as it did for Setanta and ESPN.”

A wholesale deal will make a whole lot more sense for BT if OFCOM rules against them in their bid to force Sky to wholesale Sky Sports to them for their You View operation without reciprocation on their part.

In what sense is it a basic channel on Virgin - you have to subscribe to their top XL package to get it "free". if you take the basic packages you have to pay the £12/£15 for BT Sport channels.

The reality is that BT Sport will get a whole lot less paying subscribers from Sky where it retails the channels itself without multiroom than if it wholesaled to Sky. I appreciate it may not be bothered.

BT also runs the risk of being viewed in a negative light by Sky subscribers. Again, it may not be bothered.

I am just trying to view this from the best interests of the viewer/subscriber rather than purely what is in the interests of BT and / or Sky.
derek500
15-08-2013
Another poor article from The Guardian with numbers not stacking up and incorrect facts.

Quote:
“BT has struck an 11th hour deal to offer its sports channels to Virgin Media's 4 million TV customers, its first agreement with a rival pay-TV broadcaster.

The three-year deal, which will see Virgin customers gain access to BT Sport 1 and 2 as well as ESPN, is crucial for BT coming days ahead of the start of the Premier League season.

BT executives will be breathing a sigh of relief, as it needs to offer the channels to as many pay-TV homes as possible to recoup the £1bn-plus it has spent acquiring sports rights.

"BT has made a large investment in BT Sport and this is an important commercial agreement for us," said the BT TV chief executive, Marc Watson. "I am delighted we have signed a deal with Virgin Media that increases the audience for BT Sport to around 3m homes overnight. We are keen to make our services as widely available as possible and to do so via wholesale arrangements."

About 3 million Virgin Media customers who are on its XL package will receive the channels for free.

Customers on other packages will be able to add BT Sport's portfolio, which will air programming including Premiership rugby, for £15 a month.

BT, which earlier this week said that 1 million households have signed up to its new channels so far, remains at loggerheads with BSkyB over a similar carriage deal to offer the channels to its 10 million pay-TV customers.

Virgin Media already offers all Sky's sport channels, so following the BT deal has positioned itself as the "only place sports fans can enjoy every goal, try, penalty and heart-stopping sporting moment".

"Virgin Media homes are kicking-off the new season with the most complete sporting lineup around in one simple subscription, from Barclays Premier League football and Aviva Premiership rugby to F1, live golf and the culmination of a great Ashes series," said the Virgin Media chief operating officer, Dana Strong.”

http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...irgin-media-tv
dazb
15-08-2013
If this isnt free for bt broadband customers after 12 months then i wont be renewing not if virgin cutomers are getting it free of charge, it was bad enough that they got it free when it was in the sky package.
mlt11
15-08-2013
Originally Posted by Radiomike:
“A wholesale deal will make a whole lot more sense for BT if OFCOM rules against them in their bid to force Sky to wholesale Sky Sports to them for their You View operation without reciprocation on their part. ”

No it won't. 4% of BT Vision subscribers take Sky Sports. 2% of TalkTalk TV subscribers take Sky Sports. It is of trivial importance to that section of the market.

Originally Posted by Radiomike:
“In what sense is it a basic channel on Virgin - you have to subscribe to their top XL package to get it "free". if you take the basic packages you have to pay the £12/£15 for BT Sport channels.”

Approx 50% of VM TV customers take XL. Maybe it would be better to call it "top tier basic" - I simply mean basic in the sense that it is being given automatically to a wide range of customers many of whom will have no interest in watching it.

Originally Posted by Radiomike:
“I am just trying to view this from the best interests of the viewer/subscriber rather than purely what is in the interests of BT and / or Sky.”

Well it's BT taking the decision (and Sky if it were in negotiations with BT). Both companies will do whatever is in their interests. They won't take decisions based upon what certain viewers may or may not "like".
1andrew1
15-08-2013
Originally Posted by Radiomike:
“ In what sense is it a basic channel on Virgin - you have to subscribe to their top XL package to get it "free". if you take the basic packages you have to pay the £12/£15 for BT Sport channels.”

A minor point of detail - everything I've read including BT's press release and the VM website talks about a £15pm charge to add the BT Sport channels to VM's non-XL packages. There is no mention of a cheaper rate for SD.
http://store.virginmedia.com/digital...part=portal_P1
Gary_LandyFan
15-08-2013
Originally Posted by 1andrew1:
“A minor point of detail - everything I've read including BT's press release and the VM website talks about a £15pm charge to add the BT Sport channels to VM's non-XL packages. There is no mention of a cheaper rate for SD.
http://store.virginmedia.com/digital...part=portal_P1”

I noticed this too.

I suppose it means that no matter what TV package you are on you receive the HD channels as standard as long as you have HD STB, but it will suck if you only have SD equipment and have to pay the same.
1andrew1
15-08-2013
Originally Posted by Gary_LandyFan:
“I noticed this too.

I suppose it means that no matter what TV package you are on you receive the HD channels as standard as long as you have HD STB, but it will suck if you only have SD equipment and have to pay the same.”

In practical terms it will effect very very few people. It might help BT slightly in price comparisons in newspaper articles.
StargateNerd_24
15-08-2013
I can't believe this I didn't think for one second it would be free in XL. I am really happy as have just got SS half price since ESPN went. So to all those people who said VM customers need to get used to not getting stuff for free and need to switch, no I like my free stuff maybe its Sky that need to start offering their customers more freebies.
dearmrman
15-08-2013
Originally Posted by StargateNerd_24:
“I can't believe this I didn't think for one second it would be free in XL. I am really happy as have just got SS half price since ESPN went. So to all those people who said VM customers need to get used to not getting stuff for free and need to switch, no I like my free stuff maybe its Sky that need to start offering their customers more freebies.”

They do, well I have at least in the past had Sky Sports for Free and Sky Movies for free, albeit on 3 month deals. Currently getting Sky Sports & Movies for £10.00 per month.
ocav
15-08-2013
The thing is, this deal is ok, Virgins XL TV Package is probably more expensive than most of the BT Broadband packages, plus the fact you would have to have broadband as well on top of the TV Sub, the cheapest way to get BT Sport is still directly from BT.
Radiomike
15-08-2013
Originally Posted by mlt11:
“No it won't. 4% of BT Vision subscribers take Sky Sports. 2% of TalkTalk TV subscribers take Sky Sports. It is of trivial importance to that section of the market.”

So if BT lose their complaint to OFCOM about being able to wholesale Sky Sports from Sky without reciprocation are you saying they won't then look to do a reciprocal deal with Sky and will simply drop providing Sky Sports from their plans for their You View service.

I think BT are using that complaint to try to maintain or gain an advantage (where they can retail Sky Sports but Sky can't retail BT Sport) but if they lose will negotiate with Sky for each to wholesale to the other. I could be wrong - but so could you. Clearly BT want Sky Sports as part of their You View offering - after all their whole argument is that it is sports that drive payTV subscriptions.
smiddlehurst
15-08-2013
Originally Posted by calico_pie:
“Although I guess those 2m people had arguably already taken themselves out of that market by not switching, despite all the advertising about it not being available on Virgin. So now they'll be getting something from Virgin for at least 2m customers that they probably wouldn't have.”

Suspect that the answer is a bit more simple than that. Vast majority of Virgin customers (especially those that are on XL) are likely to be on fibre. That makes the cost of switching service providers non-trivial as many (most?) won't have a BT line into the property which can not only be more expensive but means being home when a BT engineer comes to call and takes weeks to complete. Plus if you don't live in an Infinity area you're likely to get much worse broadband service.
Radiomike
15-08-2013
Originally Posted by mlt11:
“Well it's BT taking the decision (and Sky if it were in negotiations with BT). Both companies will do whatever is in their interests. They won't take decisions based upon what certain viewers may or may not "like".”

I couldn't agree more. What is in their interests though will vary with time and circumstance. I doubt they will take any more notice of you than me in that regard.
mlt11
15-08-2013
Originally Posted by Radiomike:
“So if BT lose their complaint to OFCOM about being able to wholesale Sky Sports from Sky without reciprocation are you saying they won't then look to do a reciprocal deal with Sky and will simply drop providing Sky Sports from their plans for their You View service.

I think BT are using that complaint to try to maintain or gain an advantage (where they can retail Sky Sports but Sky can't retail BT Sport) but if they lose will negotiate with Sky for each to wholesale to the other. I could be wrong - but so could you. Clearly BT want Sky Sports as part of their You View offering - after all their whole argument is that it is sports that drive payTV subscriptions.”

First, bear in mind that Sky is currently obligated to wholesale SS1 and SS2 to BT Vision under the OFCOM Pay TV ruling. The CAT has overturned this but it remains in force for now whilst BT goes to the Court of Appeal.

The answer to your question is that I don't know. I would personally be very surprised if BT did wholesale BT Sports to Sky - though if they did I'm sure it would be standalone premium like ESPN was.

The reason I say I would be surprised is that very few BT YouView customers would take SS - so it isn't that important. Whereas I would have thought it was important to BT to retail BTS themselves on the Sky platform.

But I'm happy to accept that anything could happen because there are so many variables and of course circumstances and strategies can change over time.

As for your last point I would say that sports drive some Pay TV subscriptions:

- They're hardly driving TalkTalk TV subscriptions - 2% take SS
- They're hardly driving BT Vision subscriptions - 4% take SS
- They're not even driving VM subscriptions to that great an extent - under 20% take SS
Mr Newshound
15-08-2013
Looks like Virgin Media were either confident of a deal happening or it was agreed some time before being announced.

Ad featuring Peter Crouch and the voice of Harry Redknapp: http://www.brandrepublic.com/go/news...bt-sport-push/
steveh31
15-08-2013
Virgin sensibly didn't rush into a deal and didn't allow BT to scare them into making a decision.

BT are more interested in getting customers away from Sky at the moment than Virgin so Virgin will have taken advantage of this, the adverts clearly show BT vs Sky, Virgin have sat back and watched and waited and got a good deal for their customers.

As a Virgin customer I rang them up last week threatened to leave for BT am now getting a TIVO and phone line for £15 less than I pay now.

I for one am happy with what I am getting I rang Sky for a quote got told I had to wait for a sales company to ring me when they did they then told me they wouldn't talk to me until I asked my housing ass if I could have a dish they wouldn't even give me a quote.

BT gave me their package details straight away and I was able to deal with Virgin to be retained.

Sky do not have respect for potential customers and do not seem to be in any hurry or can be bothered to persuade new customers to their service I will never join them as a customer.
Gurj73
15-08-2013
As others have stated, seems very unfair that people such as I who take the full sky package and multi room have to pay for BT Sports ( without getting access through the TV itself for the multi room box ) yet VM subscribers get the best of both worlds....free of charge and multi-room access.

Surely Sky will have to counter this somehow ? And no I dont believe them offering cut price Broadband is sufficient !

Is it Sky preventing Multi room for BT ? If so they need to relent as people like me will see that VM viewers are seemingly in a much better position if you want to be able to watch BT on two or more tv's.
d'@ve
15-08-2013
Originally Posted by mlt11:
“As for your last point I would say that sports drive some Pay TV subscriptions:

- They're hardly driving BT Vision subscriptions - 4% take SS”

Nevertheless, BT will want to increase that figure, albeit not at any cost. Some people (well at least one, me) are holding off on getting a BT TV subscription precisely because they can't get SS 1&2 on BT-Youview and don't want to commit to BT Vision. How many? I've no idea but BT may want to suck us in. Or they may not be bothered, who knows?
steveh31
15-08-2013
Originally Posted by Gurj73:
“As others have stated, seems very unfair that people such as I who take the full sky package and multi room have to pay for BT Sports ( without getting access through the TV itself for the multi room box ) yet VM subscribers get the best of both worlds....free of charge and multi-room access.

Surely Sky will have to counter this somehow ? And no I dont believe them offering cut price Broadband is sufficient !

Is it Sky preventing Multi room for BT ? If so they need to relent as people like me will see that VM viewers are seemingly in a much better position if you want to be able to watch BT on two or more tv's.”

I'm not laughing but why should Sky have to counter act they have 10 millions (idiots) err customers who won't move an inch they have nearly three times the customers of Virgin.

I love all this why should Virgin get it and we don't, Tough! if you want it swap and move to Virgin if you don't stay with Sky the ball as they say is in your court if people don't get off their backsides and move for a year Sky will just sit and laugh at you all.
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