I really don't agree with the above.

For BT: 38 PL games + one CL 1st pick package is a very much more attractive proposition than 38 PL games + no CL. It would mean the possibility of absolute mega marquee games - which they get very few of in the PL.

For Sky: One CL 1st pick package remains an important property, whether or not they still have one or both 2nd pick packages.

Approx 85% of the value in the CL is in the 1st picks - I know there's quite a lot of interest on here in the other picks but commercially it's really all about the 1st picks. 2nd picks are worth peanuts as soon as you get to the last 16 as you won't get a single British game (unless 5 teams reach last 16 or 3 teams reach QFs and are kept apart - ie very, very unlikely).

Outside of the PL, the 1st pick CL packages are in the very top tier of UK TV sports rights - one 1st pick package is of importance and major value to Sky / BT, whoever has the other.

Re your final point - key point is that it is the overall channel content offering which drive subs - not individual pieces of content. A CL 1st pick package makes any Pay channel more attractive overall.

Of course individual pieces of content improve overall attractiveness but decision faced by consumer is "Do I get the channel or not?" - and that decision is based on overall attractiveness.

In terms of the Europa League, with the winners of the competition getting into the Champions League from the 2015/16 season, I think it's value is going to increase. Obviously no guarantees of an English club getting to the final but I think the whole competition will go up a level with the promise of the Champions League at the end of it - indeed I wonder if it might result in Sky entering the Europa League bidding process (although whether they could fit the games in with increased Football League matches on the way is maybe an issue - might the additional FL games go on Thursday nights?).

Maybe but not necessarily.

If they had an FL game every single Fri night and Sat 12.15pm, plus every Monday when no MNF then I think they could more or less fit them all in like that.

Also maybe they might start having FL games on Tue / Wed when there is a midweek round - when no CL / LC clash.

Eh??!

Its not up the broadcasters who they share rights with if UEFA decide to sell to more than one, you know that too...!
And BT having a pack of first picks would do alot for subscriptions, again, you know that!


I know you work for ITV, but try and balanced, not biased, its not pretty.

I think the Champions League is one of the biggest offerings around! It gives you exclusive coverage of a semi-final in each relevant week, and the same for quarter-finals (one of the best two) and so on. BT are happy to share the Premier League with Sky where they largely only have the scappings; having top European football on a regular basis would be a massive coup for them. And as for Sky if BT take over what ITV has now I can't see Sky pulling out just because of that! Equally if BT took everything else (unlikely I'd think) I'd have thought Sky would be desperate to at least get a first pick to guard themselves - I'm sure a lot of people percieve the CL to be shared equally between ITV and Sky. Obviously Sky have a far greater amount of rights but generally people willl only watch 1 live game (at the most) on the same evening and logically the majority will take the best offering on the Tuesday (on ITV) and the best offering on the Wednesday (on Sky.)

Thus if you're Sky or BT and have a Champions League first pick then you're showing a strong proportion of the action, regardless of where the rest of the rights go.

To clarify, can I take it the options you are talking about are 100% BT and shared BT/ITV?

Based on existing subscriber levels to BT Sport I would agree with you. However, if BT won a first pick package for the Champions League then its subscriber base should grow substantially.

Exactly, and that for some reason is a missed point in this thread. Everyone thinks the numbers would remains the same which it will not.
They are adding subscribers all the time. Add into the UCL rights, it would go up very quickly.

If they got 100% of the CL possibly, but I can't see that happening. If they get Sky's matches, the vast majority won't subscribe to BT and make do with ITV.


BARB figures (I know I'm a major detractor, but without BT giving us some updated figures, they're all we have) have shown no growth at all since BT Sport's launch.

In reply to the first part... LOL Derek, be serious.

Second part...
And i have told you before, that BARB is not the be all and end all.
Just because viewing figures may not have gone up a noticeable amount doesn't mean at all that they haven't grown.

I am. CL doesn't get the same level of viewers that the PL does and thevast majority of Sky Sports subscribers haven't signed up for BT Sport.

Does anyone know how many people have PAID directly for BT sport ???

Virgin Media XL Customers

Bt Broadband Customers

Take away these two and I bet the number is tiny.....

I think one thing is for sure though Sky are taking any possible threat from BT very very seriously, more than they have ever done with any other competitor since the 90,s.

Although how many subscribed to BT Broadband after the "deal" was announced in order to get their Broadband and Sport together for a decent price?

I am one of those people.

Another baseless fact.

My hunch with aviva prem is that whilst it has been exploited well and bt will have got new subs, quite a few rugby union supporters maybe more likely to have bt in the first place? (i say this based on no data)

You're correct but what is the point you are making? BT Sport is designed to be bundled with other services and not as a stand-alone subscription.

That one is actually quite straightforward to prove.

Go on then....

You're missing the point.

They don't want people like me who want to pay directly just for the BT Sport channels.

If they did, they would be maximising availability and pushing the other ways you can watch, which they aren't.

I know of 4 households that swapped broadband to BT Broadband especially for the rugby coverage, and 1 standalone sports subscription for the rugby coverage.

Sky have in the past quoted around 6-7 million Sky Sports subscribers. Of whom only 800k have Virgin according to their figures. Even if all 800k have Virgin XL, it leaves BT needing 2.7 million DTH subs on Sky (either standalone or with broadband) and the figures published so farbdon't support that. Ratings rank alongside ESPNs for FAPL fixtures, leaving no real indication of 2.7m DTH subs.

That's interesting. How are the four households who've switched watching BT Sport (via Sky, BT Vision, BT YouView or online app) and who did they switch from?

Im enjoying BT Sport but if their variety of adverts is an indication of their success they don't appear to be doing so well.

I was a dual Sky Sports and ESPN subscriber for many years, but when BT came along I didn't sign up. I know a number of people who were the same.

I was simply put off by the activation fee and lack of multi room. If they were to get those things changed, I would seriously consider changing my mind.

I had no choice over my broadband as I moved to a rural part of Devon where no other provider can give us broadband at the moment only BT can run from our exchange...
....so that was part of situation my only option for TV anyway was freesat boxes as no terrestrial aerial but had been left an old digibox but I still can only have BT for broadband.

However, I would have moved over to get BT Sport and had already looked into it as contract with talk talk ending anyway
.
but my situation is unfortunately I despise football ...
(and that's all that seems to be on right now)
am neutral about Rugby etc.etc.

but the decision was made for me as I have no choice as the only real sport I view is Motorcycle racing and with exclusivity on Moto GP for next season it was BT or nowt
(no cables here so no Virgin Media either)

one freesat for sky viewing card later (£25) and I now get my channels....lets hope I don't get clare balding or jake humphrey presenting the moto GP that's all ....lord help me..