Well he would find allmost every one young compared to him. Exceptions being the face of boe and Rory Williams. I find the fact he married his best freinds emotionaly damaged and vunerable daughter in S6 slightly pervy. Amy was stunned when she realised she was sort of the doctors "mother in law" . Except for the facts she didn't actually get to raise her daughter or see much of her after the wedding. Moffat did seem to have some weird ideas of "marriage" and "family" with Amy,Rory, River/Melody and 11.

Oh the irony of this thread.

As actors I find all recent incarnations of the Doctor to be very attractive including Capaldi who I have loved since the Crow Road, but the character of the Doctor is the most attractive of them all.

I find it really dismissive of the female fandom that we are fangirling if we say someone is attractive.

There has pretty much always been a pretty companion "something for the dads" throughout Doctor Who, but if young female fans express a preference for their Doctor who they may have a crush on their opinions are dismissed out of hand, surely we are past that?

Sadly, there is a large element in older fandom that's actively resentful of the fact that the series has picked up a whole new fanbase, many of them (SHOCK! HORROR!) female, a lot of whom like to express their enthusiasm for the series IN PUBLIC and on this newfangled Internet thingy, rather than keeping it dairy, shameful a secret and who aren't beholden to the received "Wisdom" of the Elders when it comes to "What you should like" and "What you shouldn't like".

These are people who not only don't consider Robert Holmes the greatest writer in the history of the series but probably have never even heard of him because they're too busy knocking one out to fanvids of David Tennant. The filthy sluts.

And I bet they always bring a banana to the party.

You seem to completely miss the point that they only seem to like the actors and not the show -- the reason simply being OMG HE'S SOOOOOOO HOT!

Which is evident in the "OMFG Capldi is sooooo urrrrrrgly!" tweets.

You seem to miss the point that they can like or dislike whatever the hell they want for whatever reason they want.

And this disdain is in no way limited to those sort of people anyway. I've stood beside a couple of old school fans looking at someone in a beautiful handmade TARDIS dress and instead of being impressed by the effort she's put into showing off her passion for the series, heard her get called a "cancer on fandom" and that they can't wait for all these people to go away so the "Real Fans" can be front and center again.

And do you think that one 140-character sentence is enough to cover every thought one might have about a TV series? Or perhaps it's just that they had one particular thought about one particular part of the show?

Is any different from complaints about the New Paradigm Daleks being ugly?

Oh my god, you Dalek fangirls. Get over it! We used to have sexy Daleks and now we have lumbering, ugly Daleks. The sexy Daleks aren't coming back and good riddance to them!

There is a whole world of difference between the two -- one is the design of a monster, which has an impact on the way it comes across on screen. This cannot be compared to the looks of an actor, which has nothing to do with their ability (the only thing comparable here is that looks are objective, but as I say in the case of actors their looks have nothing to do with how good/ bad they will be as the doctor.)

And of course it doesn't cover every thought they have. Just the main one they seem to be tweeting about

I didn't see any tweets criticising their acting ability, or that they would be incapable of portraying the Doctor.


Right, so it would be unfair to say that they're only concerned about the Doctor's appearance. Just that they were, at that moment, discussing it.

I don't want to tar all fangirls with the same brush here, but the ones I am referring to do seem only to be concerned with appearance.

Hence tweets, facebook posts and youtube comments such as "he's so ugly bring back david tennant", which still persist even though its been 3 years since David was in the role. Yes, he was popular, but in this context it does seem like "I can't/ won't watch doctor who unless the main actor is hot." I have even read comments on youtube from people who say that they won't watch any more because "ew how could the BBC choos capaldi? He's too ugly / old"

This is all getting a bit timey-wimey and twittery-ittery isn't it?

More likely to be fanboys in that context, I surmise. But we don't hear much about them, do we?


Get what?

I just wish, instead of people going on about fangirls and their preferences, someone would just explain to me why they think there's something wrong, or odd or dim-witted, about these girls, and why they shouldn't express their opinions, and why if you don't like the opinions you can't just ignore them?

Because, however much the critics of fangirls protest, it just comes across as snobbery and superiority based on the fact that there's some deeper meaning to DW which they "get" and fangirls don't? Well, I don't get it either, so tell me what it is.

I don't think there's some deeper meaning to DW etcetcetc, I just don't understand why you find it odd for me to say "an actor should be judged on more than looks, they should be judged on ability"?

Because fangirls switching off because of how the lead actor looks, before theyve even seen him in the role?...

If someone watches a television show just because they "fancy" the lead actor in it then so be it, it is not a crime and the last time I looked we do live in a democracy where different opinions are allowed.

Do I personally use the same criteria as them to judge whether or not I watch a television show?, No I don't. Do I get on my high horse and berate them for somehow demeaning the show and for them not understanding what the show is all about?, No of course I don't.

Everyone is allowed to watch what they want for whatever reason they want, but for someone to criticise another's choices, and worse still make out that they somehow lack the critical faculties to properly "get" what the show is all about (whatever that may be), is pretentious in the extreme and does far more damage to Who "fandom" than swooning over the lead actor, IMO.

I get your point Nige, I don't want to seem like I'm on some sort of moral mission against these girls. However, DW aside I still feel strongly that it is a mistake for them not to see what an actor is capable of besides looking hot.

But in that case I suppose it's simply "their loss"

When I saw this thread I thought "Oh For Pete's Sakes!"

If David Tennant and Matt Smith can get on, why the hell can't the fangirls?

If you watch the show, you're a fan and your opinions are perfectly valid if you've just watched your first episode or you were there in 1963 for the first....

The show needs all the fans it can get lest it descend into the mire of the mid to late 80s or, even worse, the 90s

All this fretting over what certain sections of fandom obsess over is almost like the Tories divide and conquer tactics over the minority of those on benefits being cheats that we should all deride.

We're all Who fans when it comes down to it, those who are arguing tooth and nail over "fangirls" now will fight side by side if some soap fan derided the series and said it was a stupid, childish waste of the licence fee or something.

There are no fangirls, there are merely Doctor Who fans....

Has a look at all the threads in which Fanboys drool over Jenna Coleman.

Plenty of double-standards going round but then our world is set up so that what's acceptable for men to do isn't for women.

There are television shows like Hollyoaks and Baywatch and many many silly (often US) shows which are filled with identikit eye candy, narrow minded depictions of what is considered beautiful and they are for the most part vapid nonsense. All tits and teeth and abs and cheesy smiles. Nothing wrong with that in its place. Nothing wrong with people thinking 'cor he/she is fit'- I have had many a salacious thought about Peri in the same way as many women and men have had about Tennant (and no doubt Smith).

The issue for me is when comments like 'errrrr hes well old what a minger! i aint watching anymore' are made by people who claim to be fans of the show. First of all anyone with a passing interest in the Doctor Who series will know that older actors have been cast in the past and that this is nothing new. And also lets be honest here- Doctor Who is ultimately a fantastical and often silly family science fiction show but it does have themes about tolerance and understanding and the strength of the soul and the inner spirit and not to judge based on appearance. It is a pretty smart show. So when I see people making nasty comments about age and looks and saying they will stop watching I do think they have missed the point of the show somewhat. Because yes there are lots of fanciable characters and actors in the show and everyone enjoys them. But if that's all you're there for? I think that's pretty pathetic. Go and buy a Tennant calendar and lock yourself in the bathroom for a few days to get over it.

As I have said a million times before these are a minority. An absolute minority. I accept that. But they do exist and they are annoying to me. If they don't bother you fine. I have had conversations with 'fans' that went this way. Does it spoil my enjoyment of the show if someone says they wont watch anymore because they don't fancy the leading man? Not at all. Does it cause me to have a dim view of them and their intellect? Erm yes. Yes it does.

The 'fangirls' I refer to are those that watch for one reason and one reason only. They are Tennant fans. Not Doctor Who fans.

This isnt about just fancying a character,

I dunno, but for me there's a difference between someone who says something like:

"David Tennant is hot and he's the best Doctor ever and I miss him etc."

and someone who says something like:

"Ugh. WTF BBC? Why would you cast Peter Capaldi. He's ugly and old and now DW is ruined forever."

Because the second one is judging a person solely based on their looks and age and I don't think it's fair to judge and write anyone off based just solely on that. That doesn't go just for someone being judged because they are percieved ugly/old, but also when someone is judged based solely because they are good loking/young - for example a comment like "David Tennant is ONLY popular as the Doctor because he's hot" seems as ignorant as the Capaldi is too ugly/old comment.

I understand that sometimes one can struggle with watching a certain actor because their looks or mannerisms put them off, but most of the Capaldi comments don't sound like the people (and I doubt it's just teenage girls making them) have actually seen him in anything much and they most definitely haven't seen him as the Doctor.

Please refer to my post above.

All Doctor Who fans are as valued as each other.
There's no chain of command when it comes to valuing your enjoyment of a TV show and how it compares to other people's

Everyone who has watched the show is a fan...

Finally!



And it isn't just teenage girls. Many a middle aged spinster/bachelor with lots of cats and Supernatural boxsets has indulged in similar behavior, I remember some ghastly stuff from the Torchwood community.

They tend to write alot of fan fiction.

Of course there are differing degrees.

Are you telling me the guy in IT who I work with who has seen seven episodes in his life is a fan in the same way Ian Levine is a fan?

Lets not be silly now.