DS Forums

 
 

EastEnders. History of the Beales and the Fowlers


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-08-2013, 14:35
KB1984
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 273

Back in the 80s, a lot more thought went into continuity as a rule but I really wonder about this one.

When EastEnders began in 1985, Pauline (Wendy Richard) and Pete (Peter Dean) were the only two of Lou's offspring to feature on screen. Through character dialogue in July 1985, the audience were told of the existence of three other children; Keith, Paul and Norma— who had moved away before the series began. As the series progressed Keith, Paul and Norma were apparently forgotten in favour of other children Harry, Ronnie and Dora and were not mentioned again.

Circa 1986 viewers were made aware of another child, Kenny, who had moved away to New Zealand before 1985

Apart from Pete and Pauline, only Kenny (and illegitimate Maggie Flaherty years later) are seen on screen was anything mentioned about the other children?

Or were they just completely forgotten about after 1986?

Also Arthur Fowler, was ANYTHING mentioned about his extended family?
KB1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 05-08-2013, 15:19
thismorningfan
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Salford, Manchester
Posts: 1,332
Sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about.
thismorningfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 16:15
The Rhydler
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,221
It's likely that Paul, Keith and Norma are the same as Harry, Ronnie and Dora who are seen in the special 'Civvy Street' along with Kenny.

Sometimes you get these continuity errors early in the show, as we never got the see them in the actual show it doesn't really matter.
The Rhydler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 16:42
IanMandy
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 13,486
Back in the 80s, a lot more thought went into continuity as a rule but I really wonder about this one.

When EastEnders began in 1985, Pauline (Wendy Richard) and Pete (Peter Dean) were the only two of Lou's offspring to feature on screen. Through character dialogue in July 1985, the audience were told of the existence of three other children; Keith, Paul and Norma— who had moved away before the series began. As the series progressed Keith, Paul and Norma were apparently forgotten in favour of other children Harry, Ronnie and Dora and were not mentioned again.

Circa 1986 viewers were made aware of another child, Kenny, who had moved away to New Zealand before 1985

Apart from Pete and Pauline, only Kenny (and illegitimate Maggie Flaherty years later) are seen on screen was anything mentioned about the other children?

Or were they just completely forgotten about after 1986?

Also Arthur Fowler, was ANYTHING mentioned about his extended family?
Harry was actually mentioned by Ian last year in conversation with Mandy and Bobby. Harry is barely mentioned because he didn't get on with Lou (he was an alcoholic). Dora also lost touch after she married and moved away whilst Ronnie died of a heart defect (and passed the fruit and veg stall down to Pete).

The Irish relatives aren't mentioned due to the controversy over those episodes. I believe Kenny was last mentioned as he sent a wreath to Pauline's funeral.

Apart from an aunt called Betty, nothing is known about Arthur's family.

I would like one of Ian's long lost uncles turn up- another person from Walford born and bred (currently only Ian and Dot). Uncle Harry could be a friend for Patrick or even cousin Nellie could return. I also wouldn't mind a Dora introduction though I think if the Beales have a matriarch, it has to be Sharon. Her and Ian's friendship has been barely referenced and its almost a disgrace- such a genuine and close friendship basically ignored especially since both have needed one another a lot recently. Ian should be the person Sharon confided in rather than tanya and vice versa for Ian. And Sharon should be the mother figure for Bobby and the twins, not Denise whom they hardly know
IanMandy is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 17:05
The Rhydler
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,221
Ian's great aunts and uncles would be quite old now I'd say, mid 70's at least. Pete was 40 in 85 and he and Pauline were the youngest.

I always thought it strange none of these 'other' kids showed up.

Almost nothing is known of Arthur's background as the previous poster said, so when you say 'the beales and the fowlers', you really mean just the Beale's, the only true Fowlers we know of are Arthur's three kids and their offspring.
The Rhydler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 17:22
IanMandy
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 13,486
Ian's great aunts and uncles would be quite old now I'd say, mid 70's at least. Pete was 40 in 85 and he and Pauline were the youngest.

I always thought it strange none of these 'other' kids showed up.

Almost nothing is known of Arthur's background as the previous poster said, so when you say 'the beales and the fowlers', you really mean just the Beale's, the only true Fowlers we know of are Arthur's three kids and their offspring.
Me too, I think it would be nice if one of them thought they were dying and returned to Walford to see there dear old ma one more time, without knowing she had died 25 years ago
IanMandy is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 17:24
The Rhydler
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,221
Lou of course would be in her early 100's if still alive today, lol.
The Rhydler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 17:30
Scrabbler
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 31,192
If you want a female matriarch for Ian bring his auntie Steph in played by Gilliian Taylforths sister.

It is strange that the continuity was so bad for them because the characters history was all mapped out.

They shouldn't have brought in Maggie as Paulines sister, instead they should have brought in one of the existing fowlers such as Dora.
Scrabbler is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 17:33
IanMandy
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 13,486
Lou of course would be in her early 100's if still alive today, lol.
Very true but Anna Wing herself was 98
IanMandy is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 17:35
IanMandy
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 13,486
If you want a female matriarch for Ian bring his auntie Steph in played by Gilliian Taylforths sister.

It is strange that the continuity was so bad for them because the characters history was all mapped out.

They shouldn't have brought in Maggie as Paulines sister, instead they should have brought in one of the existing fowlers such as Dora.
I've always thought that the best matriarch for the Beales would be Sharon- she's one of the few people he listens to and she has close links with that family.

The whole Flaherty thing was a huge fiasco, Dora would have been a better choice
IanMandy is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 18:05
The Rhydler
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,221
I've always thought that the best matriarch for the Beales would be Sharon- she's one of the few people he listens to and she has close links with that family.

The whole Flaherty thing was a huge fiasco, Dora would have been a better choice
So, she should marry Ian?

The irish stuff was a disgrace. As if Lou would ever cheat on Albert!
The Rhydler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 18:30
bumpandgrind
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: London Town
Posts: 8,791
Meant with the greatest respect, but this is all on wikipedia.
bumpandgrind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 18:41
Dr K Noisewater
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,729
So, she should marry Ian?

The irish stuff was a disgrace. As if Lou would ever cheat on Albert!
Lou was never meant to have cheated on Albert - he was the father of her firstborn baby Maggie but because they weren't married at the time she was given up for adoption to avoid bringing shame on the family. So Maggie was Pauline's full sister not half-sister.
Dr K Noisewater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 19:30
maurice45
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Quahog
Posts: 28,142
Ian has a cousin called Elizabeth (Kenny's daughter) - maybe she could return?

Harry was mentioned by Ian, but we know very little about his life. Maybe he has kids and all?

They may be long-lost relatives but it would make more sense to introduce, say, Jack Beale, Harry's son than Jack Branning, plucked out of thin air to strengthen the Branning family.
maurice45 is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 22:37
The Rhydler
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,221
Lou was never meant to have cheated on Albert - he was the father of her firstborn baby Maggie but because they weren't married at the time she was given up for adoption to avoid bringing shame on the family. So Maggie was Pauline's full sister not half-sister.
Ah yes. Thanks for reminding me, haven't seen those eps since they were aired
The Rhydler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 22:42
The_abbott
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ronnie's bed
Posts: 20,574
I still at the thought of the irish Fowlers
The_abbott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 22:45
maurice45
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Quahog
Posts: 28,142
I still at the thought of the irish Fowlers
Never want to see them again, myself.
maurice45 is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 23:18
KB1984
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 273
Did Auntie Betty ever appear on the show? Or was she just mentioned in some context? Arthurs family should have been extended at least a bit.

Just strange that as the Beales were conceived as this huge, sprawling East End family and yet we have seen comparatively little of them.

They've just been allowed to dwindle down over the years with no replacements coming in. The character of Kenny had good potential but was only in it about a month.

First Lou went, then Pete, Michelle, Arthur, Kathy, Mark, Martin etc

They should have brought the other Beale siblings and their offspring in here and there years ago. I'm imagining a snooty Dora looking down on Pauline and her cardigans
KB1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2013, 01:13
Broken_Arrow
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Suck it
Posts: 7,777
I always found it strange how they let the Beales dwindle to nothing. Pauline's funeral would've been the ideal time to bring in some long lost Beales to boost the ranks. The current Beales don't quite work for me. I can't take the kids seriously with their posh accents and I don't buy Ian and Denise for a second.
Broken_Arrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2013, 01:19
Styker
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 28,304
I always found it strange how they let the Beales dwindle to nothing. Pauline's funeral would've been the ideal time to bring in some long lost Beales to boost the ranks. The current Beales don't quite work for me. I can't take the kids seriously with their posh accents and I don't buy Ian and Denise for a second.
Yes i agree! They let both of Ian's parents die which wasn't a good idea as Ian is the only original character left on EE that has remained there from the start. Dot and Sharon have both had breaks from the show a fair bit over the years etc.
Styker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2013, 01:32
Broken_Arrow
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Suck it
Posts: 7,777
Yes i agree! They let both of Ian's parents die which wasn't a good idea as Ian is the only original character left on EE that has remained there from the start. Dot and Sharon have both had breaks from the show a fair bit over the years etc.
Gillian Taylforth would have returned without a doubt. She's said so many times. Kathy's death was senseless. Every time I see Gillian in Hollyoaks now I think what a shame it is she'll never be back in EastEnders. She was even talking about a character named Pauline in today's E4 episode
Broken_Arrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2013, 05:08
Amazee-Dayzee
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,295
Well the Beale family will be getting another boost when David comes back to Walford, as he is a Beale since he is Pete's oldest son. And even though they never mention it, Bianca, Liam, Tiffany and Morgan are Beales.
Amazee-Dayzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2013, 10:14
KB1984
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 273
Yes i agree! They let both of Ian's parents die which wasn't a good idea as Ian is the only original character left on EE that has remained there from the start. Dot and Sharon have both had breaks from the show a fair bit over the years etc.
The character of Pete Beale was nearly axed a couple of times before he actually was.

In 1993, they thought Pete had really come to the end of the road in regards to what to do with him, so they wrote him out with his girlfriend Rose Chapman, the door left open for a later return.

But a bitter and incensed Peter Dean who played him sold stories to the tabloids blasting the show and so his character was killed off-screen.

He apparently wasn't the easiest to work with

As for Kathy (Gillian Taylforth) she was also killed off screen a few years back as a plot-device to re-introduce the character of Ben back into the soap,

A very unpopular decision as writers, actors and subsequent producers as well as Gillian herself have wished Kathy to return
KB1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2013, 10:42
IanMandy
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 13,486
So, she should marry Ian?

The irish stuff was a disgrace. As if Lou would ever cheat on Albert!
No Sharon and Ian shouldn't marry, she doesn't have to be in a relationship with him (their strong friendship is enough to be a matriarch). She loves Ian and his kids as if they are her own

Ian has a cousin called Elizabeth (Kenny's daughter) - maybe she could return?

Harry was mentioned by Ian, but we know very little about his life. Maybe he has kids and all?

They may be long-lost relatives but it would make more sense to introduce, say, Jack Beale, Harry's son than Jack Branning, plucked out of thin air to strengthen the Branning family.
I agree, the Brannings are just a family of retcons. I always thought Elizabeth Beale would be a decent comeback- basically a blank slate but another link to EastEnders history

Well the Beale family will be getting another boost when David comes back to Walford, as he is a Beale since he is Pete's oldest son. And even though they never mention it, Bianca, Liam, Tiffany and Morgan are Beales.
Thing is, I think it more likely that David's return would be the inevitable love triangle with Carol and Masood rather than any interaction with Ian. Look at Sharon- she's basically a sister to Ian and they have barely spoken more than 10 words to one another.

The character of Pete Beale was nearly axed a couple of times before he actually was.

In 1993, they thought Pete had really come to the end of the road in regards to what to do with him, so they wrote him out with his girlfriend Rose Chapman, the door left open for a later return.

But a bitter and incensed Peter Dean who played him sold stories to the tabloids blasting the show and so his character was killed off-screen.

He apparently wasn't the easiest to work with

As for Kathy (Gillian Taylforth) she was also killed off screen a few years back as a plot-device to re-introduce the character of Ben back into the soap,

A very unpopular decision as writers, actors and subsequent producers as well as Gillian herself have wished Kathy to return

Yes, I think the reason they didn't axe Pete before 1993 is because they wanted to keep the Beales as complete as possible. And because the family were so close, it would seem unnatural that they would just leave (although Kathy's exit was a success despite going to South Africa) Thats why the likes of Arthur and Pauline had to die.

In fact, the producers even tried to axe Pauline in 1989 by having her die of cancer but when a new EP was introduced, they decided to keep her since she was an original character. In the end Pauline just had fibroids
IanMandy is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2013, 11:25
KB1984
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 273
Pete Beale was initially scheduled to be a short-term character. It had been decided way in advance that the big New Year cliffhanger of 1986 would be the killing-off of a character and the chosen person had to have the greatest effect on the remaining characters. Pete Beale was the obvious choice as his death would leave Kathy a widow and Ian (his son) would have to take over as head of the house. Lou was his mother, Pauline his sister and Den Watts his best friend, and everyone knew him from the fruit and veg stall, so storylines were planned in which Pete would have a heart-attack; a shock tactic to revive interest in the show after the excitement of Christmas. At the last minute, Julia Smith got "cold feet" and decided that Pete was too useful a character to lose so early in the programme's history; like Pauline he was considered a linchpin character. A new shock storyline was needed and so it was decided to introduce Den's mistress Jan Hammond into the show instead

When producer Mike Gibbon took the helm as head of the serial in 1989, he employed writer David Yallop to pen storylines that controversially killed-off various characters in the show. According to Yallop, the decision to axe the characters was dependent of the talent of the actors portraying them. Yallop stated that Pete Beale was among the characters to be killed. The storyline never came to fruition because Gibbon's controversial plots were not sanctioned by the BBC and Yallop's storylines were not used; Yallop sued the BBC for termination of contract, at which time the finer details of the proposed plots were disclosed to the media.

(from Wikipedia )

Mike Gibbon's very short run as producer was an interesting one. If he had carried on, 10 characters were going to be axed including Pete and Pauline.
KB1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 13:35.