Ive skipped the whole thread, but for me the best series was The Doctor and Donna Noble, no sexual tension - no fancying on either side, just 2 mates having fun.

No but I'm starting to appreciate her viewpoint. Actually, I believe Moffat said on one occasion that there was supposed to be some kind of love triangle between the Doctor, River and Clara but not in the way people would think. I wonder if River (or her essence) somehow ends up in the TARDIS and that's why the TARDIS doesn't seem to like Clara?

I think she did definitely have a lot of potential and even with the annoying unrequited love angle, I enjoyed a number of her episodes.

I really don't think it was putting Rose on a pedestal more a case that the person he had been travelling with on many adventures would say the right thing at the right moment..as companions do, not tell him WHAT to do, but say something that would spark an idea off in his head.



Did 10 and Rose really have a romance?? There was flirting yes but was it Roses need for a father figure and the Doctors need for companionship after the time war.
After all he left her in an alternative world with cast off Doctor.
I'm sure he loved most if not all of his companions ..eventually

But if course it is down to different interpretations.

It isn't even as if the doctor married her like he did River Song Imagine the uproar if RTD had done that, married the Doctor off .

We've seen more of her background than most, her parents, birth, various episodes as she grew up, the family she lives with now...and she still doesn't appeal to me at all or come across anywhere near as interesting as she was in the Asylum or the Christmas Special.


Yes, please. It's always been best with two companions, preferably male and female, The men get a couple of dozen young girls over 50 years, we get Ian, Ben, Steven, Jamie, the Brig, Harry, Adric, Turlough, Jack, Mickey and Rory. Time for another!..

Because it is poor characterisation Talma, it has plagued Moffat's era, not only the main characters (and I include the Doctor in this) but also the majority of secondary characters.

Clara worked wonderfully in Asylum because in essence it was a one story character, if we had never met Clara again it wouldn't have impacted ion the episode. But expand that character beyond Asylum and Moffat relies on tags and catchphrases and all whist telling us she is mysterious. What we saw of any background to Clara was quick flashbacks that do not add any character to her it just gives random images of no depth...like that sodding all mighty and powerful leaf. Also in the modern day she babysits two badly written one dimensional kids, zilch character building via interaction. Ive still no idea who Clara is, what she stands for or anything, she seems nice..but that's about it.



So the writing of Clara really need to step up a lot for series 8.

imo.

I think everyone needs to give Jenna Coleman a bit of a break, and even Clara as a character - we've only had her half a series! Usually a companion is introduced at the beginning of a brand new series and we get to know them for thirteen straight episodes. No doubt the mystery took away from character development, but that's expected from Moffat. He focuses more on plot than characterisation.

I personally like her, and I'm glad for once that Moffat hasn't written a bossy know-it-all female character like River Song and Amy. In Asylum of the Daleks Clara, to me, just sounded like Amy but with different lines and different back story. Sure, Clara can be feisty, but not in a superior way that River sometimes comes across as.

Hopefully a young hot guy can join the TARDIS crew and stir things up a little. Call it shallow or not, I'd like to see it happen.

What she stands for? Do you know what Rose stands for? What tags and catchphrases?

Characters develop. Where there's a tendency for some writers to lay out a character manifesto up-front, like they're transcribing the audition notes, other writers treat their characters like people that the audience need to get to know over time.

She's quick-witted and a natural leader, but not reckless and still uncertain of herself. That's enough for now, isn't it?

Clara's too nice. I find my response to her is similar to the Tucker/Doctor one on that vid.

She gave up her dream of travelling to look after her friend's kids (though they don't want her to, seemingly). She gave up her life to save the Doctor without any hesitation. She gave up her leaf to save an Alien civilisation. She did all this out of sheer niceness..

Nobody could say Donna, Amy, River, Rose, or even Martha was sooo nice all the time. Lucie was never nice. Sarah Jane wasn't unrelentingly nice, nor was Jo. Tegan definitely wasn't nice.

Even her smart one liners are nice. No barbs at all. Not even "chin-boy" really.

There's never been such a nice companion. It gets tedious.

This is no reflection on Jenna, who I'm sure would be fine with a bit of charac adjustment.

Yes, it is all there in two series and her returning episodes. It forms early in series 1 with the use of dialogue (not wise cracks and one liners) and her established surroundings. From being stuck in a rut/not having a Father figure, unsure of her relationship with her boyfriend/showing compassion by engaging with the people she encounters on her travels. It all there and all without catchphrases, recurring tags or series defining heavy companion arc that limits the character so much that outside of the arc there is little too them. Of course IMO.

I feel that Moffats companions arc have had a detrimental effect. But that's just my interpretation of it and how I prefer the companions. I like JLC and Clara doesn't irk me as much as Amy Pond/River Song did and in places her series arc was well done and interesting but didn't give her character any depth imo.

But I am looking forward to her in series 8 now the arc is done.


'The Impossible Girl' 'Souffle Girl' 'Run you clever boy and remember me'





Indeed but I dont think any new Who companion has had their character manifesto up-front, they are developed over a series but imo some far better than others. Now for me Clara's development was solely determined by the series arc, and not as character who experiences said arc..I'm not sure Ive explained that at all well, but I hope you get my gist. Clara IS the series arc outside of that there is very little there.

Who is Clara now her 'Impossible girl/Souffle girl/run you clever boy series arc is over..which Clara do we have in terms of personality? Asylum Clara, Victorian Clara, modern day Clara? WHo are we getting in series 8?

That is what I mean by the writing for Clara in series 8, for me needs to be far better to establish her as a person and not 'The Impossible Girl' or 'Souffle Girl'.

But again that's just my interpretation and mainly being bored with companion heavy arcs that define a series.

Pathetic

They all have compassion - the Doctor wouldn't travel with them otherwise. Rose lost her father, Clara lost her mother. Rose had a boyfriend she didn't care for. Clara has children she wants to come back for (regardless of whether you like them or not). Six and half-a-dozen.

Have we forgotten 'Bad Wolf' so soon? Not just series 1 - Bad Wolf Bay, Rose 'having something of the wolf about her', 'She is returning' (with all the text going Bad Wolf-y). Rose had her motifs just as much as Amy or Clara.

Although it was slightly more important that Clara have recurring references like that - as they had to convince us that the various incarnations are connected.

What does run you clever boy and remember even mean. I never get moffatts nonsense.

The difference is with Rose these were part of her series, we saw episode after episode where her relationship her family and Mickey was explored, her character development was due, in part, to this interaction with these people, using dialogue, dialogue not there to establish a heavy series arc but a character.

Roses character in series one wasn't defined by Bad Wolf prior to its final revelation in Bad Wolf/Parting Of the Ways

With Clara we had short flashbacks...actress playing her Mother..actor playing her Dad...er.. that's it.

Yes there are different ways of doing it, but for me this is where Moffats era fell flat,




I disagree, Bad Wolf was two words placed through out series 1. Series one episode one didn't have Rose saying 'I'm Rose - I'm a Bad Wolf' or something like that, it didn't establish that Rose had any mystery or story that would play out. The Doctor didn't refer to Rose as 'Bad Wolf girl' , or the appropriate 'Souffle Girl' The Girl Who Waited' The Impossible Girl and the likes through out the series before the bad wolf reveal. We didn't know what Bad Wolf was until the finale episodes of series one. There was nothing before that to connect it Rose.

And when Bad Wolf returned it was as a shock ending to to Turn Left and only foreshadowed by Rose popping up now and again.
There is foreshadowing an event and there is almost constant reference to a character tag. For this viewer the catchphrases and tags became tedious.

Bad Wolf bay was just a nod, it wasn't referenced with a catchphrase or tag before it appeared.

When there was an direct character/plot foreshadowing it came in Doomsday with Roses' voice over at the start. But the character was already long established.





Personally I dont think direct recurring references to companions like that is needed as much as Moffat has done to establish a connection, we already know, we were told in the first episode, we were told by the showrunner.

Any way we have different views, we could go in circles all day

The Doctor is over a thousand and has been played by a 55 year old before.

Shallow thread.

Clara and Twelve can easily be the best of friends. Doctor Who isn't dominated by romances.

Clara will probably leave at the end of Series 8 when her storyline is done, not because Coleman is too young to work with Capaldi.

I completely agree with this and especially the bit in bold. I couldn't stand River Song and Amy's know it all, bossy character traits.
I like Clara too. She has only been in the show for a half a season. You have to give the girl a chance. She was mysterious and now that the mystery has been resolved I am sure we will see a closer, open and genuine relationship with the doctor and character development for Clara.
I think she will be a hit with Capaldi’s doctor. I am really looking forward to the dynamic between them.

No they don't!

Why do we have to have any of these shenanigans? I'd like Capaldi to take the show back to Hartnell era - the Doctor as an educator and father/grandfather type figure. Why does there always have to be shagging or prospective shagging?

No hot sidekick for Clara

Maybe 12 could get together with River (first time the Doctor and River would look right together in my opnion) but that's it! (Please...)

Absolutely.

It's all these people who know nothing of the show's long history, and have no inclination to discover anything about the show pre-2005, who are starting these ridiculous threads and making ridiculous comments about PC being too old at 55 to play the Doctor or that it's creepy for him to be travelling with young female companion.

Most Doctors have been played by middle-aged actors, with the original Doctor being played by an actor who was the same as PC is now. Most Doctors had perfectly fine platonic, avuncular (or grandfatherly, in the case of the First Doctor) relationships with their female companions. There's no reason why it can't be the same for PC and Jenna, and if people still find it creepy then maybe introducing an additional young, male companion may make it less so.

The anti-Capaldi brigade are now beginning to grate, big time.

I thought there were two companions in Hartnell's day? I'm not a DW historian by any means so I'm always nervous of saying anything about the show before I was born but I thought two companions or more, both men and women, were quite normal for the show at the beginning. I'd like there to be a young man companion with Capaldi and Coleman, I can think of loads of brilliant actors, and I'd really like a young man companion who wasn't Clara's boyfriend. Somehow Micky and Rory never had the same status. Not for any reason about Capaldi's age. Just as a good addition to the show.

I agree. They could get a bit of a Ben&Polly/Jamie&Zoe/Harry&Sarah Jane sort of vibe going on. In my opinion they really set themselves up for this "unresolved Doctor and companion sexual tension" nonsense when it became the norm for the Doctor to only travel with a single 20-something female.

It'd be good if Clara hinted at a romantic interest in the Matt-Doctor in his last two only to be thrown sideways by his regeneration into Capaldi. That could make for an interesting dynamic and performance by JC.

There doesn't have to be shagging or prospective shagging. That's not what I'm suggesting at all.

I'm suggesting that for me an attractive female companion is a great enhancement to my enjoyment of the show. It's become obvious since the new Doctor was announced that many younger female fans had found the more youthful Doctors of recent years similarly enhanced their enjoyment. I'm not going to sneer at them for that. I've been keen on having an older Doctor, and I'm glad they've done it, especially as they've picked Peter Capaldi, who I think is a terrific actor. But if some of the much-maligned fangirls are unhappy, why not give them something else to keep them enjoying the show?

Often there were three!

and that was plenty to establish what sort of life she came from, no more is necessary, it's her time with the Doctor that really matters, especially with limited time per episode. We managed to 'get to know' the pre-2005 companions without knowing their life stories and extended families.


And don't even think of what poor 5 had to put up with