I'm still not 100% convined that Hurt is who everyone's making out, Doc8.5, even if he was present in the Time War, I'm still leaning towards him being post-11
They could so easily address the regeneration limit, the metacrisis and the Valeyard in a single swoop of fanwankery and I wouldn't be at all surprised if they did this with the 50th.[LIST][*]1st incarnation, William hartnell[*]1st regeneration - 2nd incarnation, Patrick Troughton[*]2nd regeneration - 3rd incarnation, Jon Pertwee[*]3rd regeneration - 4th incarnation, Tom Baker[*]4th regeneration (merges with The Watcher, a projection of his future self) - 5th incarnation, Peter Davison[*]5th regeneration - 6th incarnation, Colin Baker[*]6th regeneration - 7th incarnation, Sylvester McCoy[*]7th regeneration - 8th incarnation, Paul McGann[*]8th regeneration - 9th incarnation, Christopher Eccleston[*]9th regeneration - 10th incarnation, David Tennant[LIST][*]The Doctor's (cloned) "Daughter", Jenny is created[/LIST][*]10th regeneration - Metacrisis Doctor - ("The 50th will be controversial")[*]11th regeneration - 11th incarnation, Matt Smith[LIST][*]The Flesh Doctor is created (A posssible temporary future host body for the Valeyard?)[/LIST][*]12th regeneration - 12th incarnation, John Hurt - A promise is broken, the Time War is re-entered (Hurt has "the coat" before Eccleston gets is hands on it?, could be where Eccleston's small role came in?), The "DreamLord" part of the Doctor is allowed out causing...[*]...the creation of The Valeyard. Then Hurt's (12th, but with the limit reached?) Doctor ends up in his "Tomb" at Trenzalore and something big happens in the 50th that means he gets a whole new life cycle ("Game Changer") [*]13th incarnation, but with 12 more regenerations remaining, Peter Capaldi[/LIST]
I fully expect to see Hurt regenerate into Capaldi before the demise of 11.

Anyone else losing the plot in anticipation of the 50th too?

RTD dealt with the regen limit in Sarah Jane Adventures. See here - http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-ra...al-reveals-bbc

Since we never saw the regeneration from McGann to Eccleston who's to say that Hurt isn't just a much older version of the 8th Doctor.

Yes but that was a joke and RTD has admitted such.

But...........if he's just an older "8", how would that lead to a regeneration into "9"? That would suggest that 8 never regenerated and that 9-11 are not real Doctors.

What if Hurt is a regeneration from a parallel universe? So therefore is "actually" The Doctor but not The doctor from the world we follow him in?

Do you have evidence of your claim sir?

People seem to struggle with this. John Hurt was in the doctors time stream. The doctor knew him.

John Hurt is the same man as the doctor, but he's not a doctor as in he is the same man who is the doctor.

So say the Doctors real name is John Smith. John Smith has been the doctor 11 times (soon to be 12).

John Smith has been John Hurts character once.

So the Doctor doesn't see John Hurts character as a doctor. This is said at the end of last season.

The Doctor (Matt) said to the Doctor (Hurt) that what he did (Hurt) he did not do "in the name of the Doctor". Therefore the only conclusion we can draw from that is that The Doctor (Matt) is ashamed and despises Hurts Doctor and therefore dismisses him as one. It hasn't been confirmed one way or another who exactly or what exactly Hurts Doctor is.

Exactly! I think the 50th will see Smith acknowledge Hurt as a doctor.

If you consider Hurt is the 9th regeneration, CE 10, DT 11, metacrisis DT 12 and Smith 13 then Smith would be the 13 regeneration limit.

Personally all that regeneration limit nonsense has been forgotten. How many times has the Master regenerated and died and been resurrected.

The master was given a second, third? set of 13 regerations by the Time Lords in the Five Doctors ( I think) so reason to think that all Time Lords didn't have all their limits extending during the Time War - in fact it's exactly what you would expect them to do.

Personally I think he's currently go 14 more.

This is how I interpret that scene as well. Matt Smith's doctor says "He's me", so yes, he obviously recognizes him.
Yet from other episodes such as "The Next Doctor" we know that he does not recognize, or does not expect to recognize his future reincarnations. So basically we can deduct that John Hurt is a past reincarnation.

Whether or not he called himself the doctor remains to be seen, however. It could be that he gave up the name after ??? happend, or that he never used the name at all.

That doesn't make sense!

Why would you assume that an older 8 wouldn't regenerate into 9? 1 got old and regenerated into 2! An older Doctor can and would also get into as many life threatening situations as younger versions of the same incarnation (as did 1) that may necessitate a regeneration!

As far as the Master is concerned, he has used up two regeneration cycles already (and you could argue that his resurrection in "Doctor Who-The Movie" gave him a third. The Doctor is still on his first cycle of regenerations. In Who of old, Time Lords granted fellow time lords a new cycle of regenerations as a reward or for a purpose known only to themselves. Hurts Doctor might be simple a on-screen plot device that explains the regeneration limit. Or what about this:

On Gallifrey, Hurts Doctor is the real Doctor. But he did something so bad that he had to run away. So, realising what he had done he undertakes a forced regeneration which, while allows him to escape from Gallifrey by stealing a knackered Tardis, keeps The real doctor on Gallifrey in order to be punished. So, Hartnell still is The Doctor because it was then that he took the name in order to distance himself from the crime carried out by The man who is not called The Doctor. Hurts Doctor goes solely by The doctors real name, and is the reason why our Doctor only uses the name John Smith or The Doctor. He knows that if his real name is ever revealed, and The time lords do come back and find out, he's toast!

So, Hartnell is still The Doctor number 1 and Capaldi number 12 because up until Hartnell, The Doctor was never called The Doctor. We can also easily get round the regeneration limit by assuming The Doctor was given a whole new cycle from The Time Lords prior to the Time War.

Sorry, I thought we were referring to an older version of 8 that hadn't died. I misread the post!

I think Hurt is the doctor from the time war, the doctor between PM and CE, the one who destroyed the time lords and daleks in one.

The Regeneration limit wont exist anymore, I'm sure the timelords will have removed the limit at the beggining of the war (what goods a time lord in a war who cant continually regenerate?) so technically with them gone the doctor could regenerate forever (or until his body begins to unweave and becomes that white timey wimey stream like at trenzalore)

If Hurt is an older 8 (or even a separate Doctor), whatever he did that was not in the name of the Doctor is likely to have also caused the regeneration. I like the older 8 theory, it would make sense but I don't think it will be that simple tbh!

Or he chooses death!

Exactly, i honestly think the regeneration limit is gone and will be mentioned as that, maybe a line by hurt, something along the lines of 'with no limit to how many times you regenerate, you can try and write the wrongs YOU DID, as you are me, don't ever forget that'

or summat like that

I'm sure the Time Lords ditched the regeneration limit. In the End of Time there's a comment made about Time Lords dying and being resurrected over and over again. I'm sure one of the acts of the War was to stop a limit. Having a soldier who can never die would be a bonus in any conflict.

I wonder is John Hurt plays a different kind of Doctor Who. He might be a mixture of all. A sort of composite Doctor who is added on to each time a regeneration takes place.
Just a thought.

AAaaaaaaaarrrrgggghhhhh!!!!

"Despises" is possibly a little strong. He certainly seemed disgusted by his predecessor's action, but there's a fair amount of pity. After all, although he broke his promise (whatever that might be), he's had to live with the consequences himself.

He certainly seemed to acknowledge that, while ashamed, he had no choice but to do what he did!

{{citation needed}}

I have a feeling we will see Capaldi in the 50th anniversary. I don't know why but I just have this feeling somehow Matt is going to regenerate on the 50th.