Why...I'm struggling to understand why it;s such a hard question to answer and your going so far out of your way to avoid it...clearly it is very relevant....


Really...but this is a thread discussing racism in Big Brother....and the percentage of viewers that are racist is important....But it seems no one wants to even consider it....how odd...




[

I would have thought my answer was quite obvious - I don't know.

You know what they say about statistics don’t you?

First there is lies, then there is Dam lies and then there is statistics

if every race will do, then there's no need to base a 'figure' on your quoted--"92% white compared to 8%"--
otherwise, i would have to consider a % on the 92% white of whom may be rascist towards their own race...i would then have to consider a % on the 8% remaining races of whom may be rascist towards their own race...i would also have to consider a % on the 'mishmesh' of viceversa rascism/s between ALL races.
i'm NOT being dismissive towards the existence of rascism, but you have not made it positively clear who? is the 'subject-matter' of your rascism survey.

Obviously there is....



Nice try......Please let us all know what you believe that percentage to be. Let's open that question up to everyone....What does everyone believe the percentage of white people who are racist towards other white people is?....


Yes...do let us know the percentage you believe to be racist towards their own race....Same question again folks...



By all means consider it and then let us know what you believe the percentage of the audience who watch Big Brother are racist....


Sounds more like your trying to find ways not to anwer a very simple question....What is the percentage of Big Brothers audience who are racist.....? Easy really. You said you were frustrated that everyone wasn't included and we're including everyone in that question.....are you going to answer it?

That's why it's an estimate...Why don't you have a guess..

But that's only if you don't know the procedure and the data, the data source etc etc.

otherwise they are pretty useful..

unless there done in excel...

Why do you keep insisting on that?. It's only useful if you have at least SOME kind of handle on the likely numbers.

We are not SPOCK

You could use the BNP voting figures ... but you still would need the demographics of BNP users watching BB.

(Nevertheless the BNP would probably deny they are racist ... so ... )

If you don't have some vaguely accurate numbers you can only make a weak theoretical model ...

I am starting .... to make ... dots ... tooo.

Ellipses...be careful, people will start accusing you of being me...dead set on arguing with myself....again...

I'm not that bothered if you do think my model is weak...it's substantially stronger than the repeated claims that racism has nothing to do with the voting at all which seems popular on these threads.....and besides...how hard is it to make a simple estimate...in this case...How many of Big Brother's audience, as a percentage, are racist....?

I'd like to see what people think how many of Big Brother's audience, as a percentage, are racist....Not that hard really....

It seems to be the only possible model, so it is no criticism on you, nor was it intended to be in any way aggressive.


That is your opinion. Mine would be, that not sufficient evidence has been provided in either case. Weak data just supports the obviousness of missing information. You showed that nevertheless, which brings at least clarification. In that respect it is definitely an improvement. I agree.


See Mesostims model .. no clue whatsoever.

As an opinion: no idea whatsoever. NaN ...

I don't understand what's going on with the forum this year. All this talk about getting "evidence" or "proof".
It's a discussion forum.

99% of the forum's discussion is generated by speculation, and simple opinion, given just by clues. (not evidence).

Since when did judging anything about Big Brother become a scientific endevour where everything has to be backed up with courtroom evidence?

I never saw data produced when it came to coming to the conclusion that certain housemates were concluded to be terrible people who deserved to be hated.

I have to say that having seen a recent episode of 'Child of Our Time' (particulary interesting to us having a daughter born in 2000), it would seem that from a very early age 'racism' (or perhaps more appropriately 'awareness of race') is demonstrable in children. I follows perhaps to some extent that any human society is 'racist' or at the very least 'exclusive' in the majority.

It also seems that often in these discussions we restrict our idea of racism to the negative - in the context of Big Brother, isn't it just as likely a contestant received some votes simply because he/she was black?

Go on then, I'll have a guess.....2%?

There,..now someone else can go and get "evidence", "data", and "proof" that the figure is wrong.

Of course I wouldn't really expect anyone to do that it reality. It would be silly for anyone to labour over such an insignificant point wouldn't it?

Well Mesostim didn't insist on numbers then. In my spare time I quite happy to just talk.

But if one goes all anal, I turn postmodern.

Well to be honest, Mesostim only asked the question in response to Veri who suggested it was bizarre that the spread of racism in BB viewers was the same as within the General population.
So i think it would be fair to ask how Veri came to the conclusion that it was bizarre.

I agree with you, and I am happy to just talk too.

I just think that there is nothing to suggest either way that there are more, or less racists than with the GBP.
I would just imagine that there would be some.

I asked for an estimate.....not a factual figure....there seemed to be an awful lot of reasons why such a guess couldn't possibly be stabbed at....

The thing is I was expecting people would say 0% straight away...after all it's so often said that racism has nothing to do with the show...and no one did......So we've established racism has something to do with it, we simply don't know how much.....

Yes, I agree that it would be likely the other way around too.

And that's why I said before that colour of skin doesn't always have to be about racism alone...prejudice is probably a more significant factor. As it can show positive bias as you just indicated.


But that means that a black contestant might find it harder to do well on BB simply due to the amount of viewers who identify with them, and the sheer amount of white voters who identify more with white contestants than black.

I do think that racism is enough to make a difference, but I believe that prejudice about skin colour, whether it be postive or negative, could make a significant difference.
You don't have to hate someone simply due to skin colour alone if you exercise prejudice. You can exercise it without even being aware of it.

Nope. I stated, hopefully understandable, that I agree there is racism per se. As in relation if this influences the BB winner vote, we don't know, that can be YES or NO. No information is the answer. Does that mean, I do not believe there were any racists in the BB voting public over 5+3 series. No.

there!...there!...now give yourself a bigsy, bigsy BIG hug...with a little help, you DID it...
gosh!...
i did'nt realise what you meant by "answer a simple question"..
i pondered between: "is the question simple"?
or: "do i give a simple answer"?....hence my request for you to clarify your 'question'.
my answer is:
"i cannot at this moment give an answer to such a "simple" question"

The only thing we appear to disagree on is whether the racism influences the vote... Of course by how much is totally debatable......

That ....dot...thing... is ... really .... infectious....

I'm a hyphen man myself - how? I'm sure I was never taught to use hyphens mid sentence in school.