The practice of breeders/owners wanting potential owners to put large [non returnable] deposits on pups only 3-4 weeks old is increasingly a very common practice.

I'm not happy with this as I feel it is important to view the puppies after they have been weaned and to see how they interact with their littermates. Surely this is the way to determine temperament and to find the pup that suits you?

Therefore if a deposit has been put on a pup who turns out to be excessively submissive or too 'alpha' further down the line [which happens as they develop], it means that you either lose a lot of money or feel obliged to have a pup that maybe isn't going to suit you in all honesty. Because it's not all about looks/colouring.

I say this as I know someone who did this, had a pup who should have gone to an experienced owner of the particular breed, and it had to be returned a few weeks on as [as first time dog owners with a small child] they could not cope with the dominant behaviour.

If you want to wait until the pups are 7 weeks or so before you make a choice then the chance of your ideal pup has gone. I'm finding this very frustrating as I am older and want a calmer, quieter pup [whilst being aware and happy that the pup is a pup of course and plays a lot and is predictably active].

Finding a pup who is ready to go and having a chance of viewing him/her with littermates is getting as rare as finding hen's teeth........

Ah decent breeder will take a deposit and refund it if behavioural problems arise, however temperament is often indicated much earlier on (and dogs don't 'go alpha'), a good breeder can identify these.

Want an older pup? Go to a rescue.

I've just had a telling off for using the 'a' word on another site.....but it was the word used by the KC breeder who took the 'bolshy' pup back [who had bitten one of my relatives, hard].

I've been told by puppy owners/breeders a few times that 'they are all the same', but I don't agree. I've bred birds and in every clutch of chicks there are different personalities which emerge as they get older. I just want a dog to have a temperament to match my lifestyle. However I understand they can act differently during an adolescent period.

As I've rehomed 3 older dogs before, am fed up with 'breeders' hands outstretched for money within 5 minutes of viewing, don't want any printed pedigrees and don't want to pay a grand for a dog - I think I will stick to rehoming an older pup or unwanted dog as you say - far more satisfying in a way.

The alpha word is a real bug bear for many, myself included as its such and out dated phrase and the training methods associated with alpha type status are also largely frowned upon.

I agree, temperaments in a a litter will vary, and whilst there may be breed standards, there is always variance in individuals. But yes a good breeder can tell which is the cocky one etc, early on. Hey should also start training such as bite inhibition etc way before the pups go home, so sounds like your friends found a less than helpful breeder. Having said that, pups do bite and have to learn, anyone that would send a puppy back for biting, hard or not, shouldn't be getting a pup at all.

There are plenty of pups in rescues, pure breeds as well as crosses, you don't get the kc paperwork but the pups are just as good, and probably better raised, than your average breeder.

Well one of the reasons breeders ask for a deposit so early is so that they have time to assess potential owners and try to match the pup to the right home. Much better that than the pups being put up for sale at 8 weeks, time marches on and they end up still with the mum weeks later because a suitable buyer hasn't been found.

What you could do is contact a breeder who breeds show quality dogs who won't take deposits or sell until after 12 weeks until they have assessed which dogs have show potential and which are for pets.

Obviously we have never used "good " breeders then because we were never asked for a deposit, she assessed our potential as owners of one of her pups and dropped the price because she really wanted us to have one and knew we were struggling to come up with the price.

She is a fantastic puppy, turning into a lovely dog. No health worries, not show quality but that doesn't matter to us.

I would have walked away from anyone wanting a non returnable deposit !

a good breeder will refund deposit upon behavioral issues , if there wont agree too this then go elsewhere .
problem solved .

I agree with others on this thread. Why on earth go to a breeder when there are loads of rescue dogs of all ages available that have been assessed for temperament and suitability for rehoming?

Edit: Ah, re-reading one of your later posts, I see you are probably going down that route anyway.

Or Because contrary to what they say many rescues will not rehome to many people, no garden ? no dog, live in a flat ? no dog, already have an older larger dog ? no small dog/puppy, the rules go on and on.

Also having had rescues all my adult life I wanted to just once have a dog with our baggage not someone else's, a chance to start from scratch and see what we could do without the terrible starts many of our dogs have had.

Yes, after rehoming 3 dogs before I also would have liked a pup with no baggage and to start from scratch.
I found people willing to keep a pup for me until ready who suited me very well, and they wanted no deposit. I reserved her to pick 9 days later - 2 days later I find the dog has been sold to someone who left a deposit!!

Now trying to find a suitable older dog who needs a good home......

That's awful, they should not have done that, am sorry you didn't get your pup, hopefully you'll find another dog who wants a home, there's plenty out there, and am sure you'll find one.

Again- plenty of pups in rescue, and a decent rescue have no rules on housing/life style - they get the right dog for the right person. A rescue that has blanket rules is asking for difficulties, some dogs need a quiet home, others need kids and companions etc, flats are different issues, but again, it depends on the dog and the owners. We don't say no off a form, unless there's an obvious difficulty- for example one came through today for a DDB (massive dogs) who's boisterous and untrained, the family had 2 children under 3, we said no for him as he could easily cause injury just by bouncing around, but we found them a pup that was more suitable.

Being a nosey bugger, but you know your stuff, do you work with rescue animals?

I'd love to know where all these decent rescues are, we travelled all the way to Birmingham to get our last rescue none of the more local ones would even talk about letting us have a dog in a flat with no garden.

Almost gave up and this time didn't even bother looking as we decided not to waste too much time.

Yes, I work in a big name (not RSPCA!) charity rehoming centre.

Must be a tough job for you, I couldn't do it, I'd want to take them all home

I am quoting this at random - and with much regard and respect to Mollie - who is a wonderful pet owner here.

But I am a little concerned at those who apparently want a dog or a puppy in a flat with no outside area. Dogs need exercise. They need training and socialising with other dogs. Are new owners really dedicated to train their new pets? To give them the two or three daily walks they need? To allow them to socialise them with other dogs - to sniff and contact? To put their needs first?

It can be, but it's nice to see them happy too. There's the odd one or two you get really attached to, but I can't have any more at home, no matter how much I wish I could!


In 99% of cases I agree, there are the one off dogs that would be fine in a flat, with the right owners but generally the owners can't give the dog enough exercise or time. But like I said we don't offer a blanket no -we make sure we evaluate each one individually.

Having said that I don't know how anyone without an indoor area copes, we walk our dogs at work 4 times a day - more with the pups, those in flats must never be in, constantly outside walking!