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Why do Europeans and Japanese love Michael Jackson?


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Old 15-08-2013, 19:37
sez_khan
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I find that Europeans and Japanese are much more sympathetic and love Michael Jackson despite his many eccentricities than they do in the USA(was living there at the time of his death). Hardly anyone cared about his passing apart from some African Americans which I found surprising since he is the biggest American superstar since Elvis. It was a different story in Europe.

Why is that? Are Americans just that much more critical of people here in the states?
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Old 15-08-2013, 21:54
chrisqc
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I find that Europeans and Japanese are much more sympathetic and love Michael Jackson despite his many eccentricities than they do in the USA(was living there at the time of his death). Hardly anyone cared about his passing apart from some African Americans which I found surprising since he is the biggest American superstar since Elvis. It was a different story in Europe.

Why is that? Are Americans just that much more critical of people here in the states?
Sad to say this but Over here(us/canada) people think of him more as pedophile than a music icon
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Old 15-08-2013, 21:56
FMKK
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I'm European. I don't like Michael Jackson. Do I have to move to the US or something?
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Old 16-08-2013, 00:19
Tal'shiar
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I think far less people care in Europe, as we have our own stars and stuff. We have have our own famous peados as well, in fact we have something of an abundance of them thanks to the BBC haha.

Japan, that place is strange musically. I went over there to play some gigs (nothing fancy, but they do have a pretty nice metal underground, so money is plentyful, but it gets stranger), and they are still in love with 80s hair metal acts. No word of a lie, people like Marty Friedmen and Paul Gilbert (both 80s hair metal guitar shredders), and they are like rock stars over there! They still get plenty of TV coverage, and they can sell out huge arena shows like it was 1985 and Poison were not universally laughed at. So in short, Japan has a very strange culture (long story short, the Christian world messed the place up), so its no wonder they love him. They also sell used womens pants in ****ing vending machines just in the street like, as if thats a perfectly normal thing to just sell in the street, like we would a twix and some over priced tango, they buy used knickers. Amazing place though, friendly people, just very different.

What the hell was the topic again? oh yeah, MJ made plenty of music and was most likely very strange. He will always be something of an intriguing fellow, like Charles Manson or Jodie Marsh.
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Old 16-08-2013, 06:31
drakhen
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It's very difficult for Western acts to make it in Japan (mostly because of the language barrier), but the ones who do seem to manage to maintain their success. For example, Avril Lavigne and Mariah Carey are still popular there despite a decline in record sales in the West. Michael Jackson falls into that category.

By the way, this is not related to music but the knickers in the vending machine thing appeals to a certain type of person. The average Japanese man would never buy them and would think anyone who did was odd. Also, the Christian world did not mess Japan up. I lived there for several years and no expert, but Japanese history is very complicated.
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Old 16-08-2013, 07:46
dearmrman
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I am European, and find MJ overated. Never understood his popularity, don't get it. A good singer with average music at best.
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Old 16-08-2013, 08:23
Everything Goes
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On the flip side Gary Glitter songs still have some degree of popularity in the USA but really don't get any airplay as they don't want him earning money from royalties.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...-banned-663059
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Old 16-08-2013, 23:42
Hanjybaby
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Because he's incredible.
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Old 17-08-2013, 00:05
Beady Eye 2013
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The bigger question for me is to why the media keep putting the words "Michael Jackson" and Justin Beiber" in the same sentence all the time.
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Old 17-08-2013, 02:33
Aerick
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I find that Europeans and Japanese are much more sympathetic and love Michael Jackson despite his many eccentricities than they do in the USA(was living there at the time of his death). Hardly anyone cared about his passing apart from some African Americans which I found surprising since he is the biggest American superstar since Elvis. It was a different story in Europe.

Why is that? Are Americans just that much more critical of people here in the states?
Kind of an odd generaliz(s)ation on a nation of over 300 million people. Many people who loved pop music and in the music industry cared about his passing. Many did not. In the US and Euope, Not sure where you are 'feeling out' this information, What, did people throw themselves on mock gravesites in Europe in desperation? Just not sure what your expectations were/are in his passing. Big news? Of course it was.
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Old 17-08-2013, 12:46
DRAGON LANCE
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Michael Jackson overrated? When you can sing, write, produce, dance and play (ok he never really did it on stage, but he could apparently play a number of instruments) to anything approaching a fraction of his standard then you've got a right to say that.

I'm not saying I respect everything that guy was at all as a person. Not at all. Saying he was "good" or "evil" is too simple. At best he was clearly extremely mentally ill; the combination of the abuse he took from his father as a child causing him to regress to the childhood he never had in adult life, and the drugs he got hooked on after getting burnt on the Pepsi ad in the 80's clearly made him an erratic character at best. Add to that the fact that he obviously wanted to be white and changed his appearance so badly he was unrecognisable. At worst an absolute monster if the claims of paedophilia are true. I think he acts as a tragic message to all that if you get too much power it can ultimately destroy you because nobody is prepared to say no to you anymore. Opulence is truly the end.

Yet as a musical talent he was truly something else. Nothing like him and whilst many try, I don't think anyone will be like him again. I remember Noel Gallagher giving a brilliant quote around the time of that Martin Bashir documentary Jacko was foolish enough to do. Was something along the lines of "We all knew he was bonkers, why didn't he ask him about how he made his songs?"

And that is something that got buried in amongst all the controversy. You know the best thing about the "This Is It" movie released after his death was not just seeing the parts of the stage show, but seeing how they went about putting it together. You got to see "Jacko" the artist, calling the shots, wanting to get things perfect, giving orders out to people and pushing his musicians and dancers to play things the way he wanted. Actually talking in his deep natural voice and not that stupid Mickey Mouse squeak he spoke in when being interviewed. It’s a shame he was allowed to degenerate from this into the "Wacko" we saw the rest of the time, but as I say power sadly corrupts.

But respect for the talent. He defined his era, and I don't think you can do much more than that.
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Old 17-08-2013, 13:37
Kalmia
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Japanese fans are very loyal. It's not unusual for bands/artists to have their 10th, 15th even 20th anniversaries without a single line up change and with the same fan base from day one. Even the boy bands can hit these anniversaries and still be popular.

They also ignore any rumours or negative stories about the artists they like. Whatever you think of Jackson and accusations against him, it's never been proven so it won't be a factor for his Japanese fans. They'll continue to support him unless it is proven.
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Old 17-08-2013, 14:22
scottie2121
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The bigger question for me is to why the media keep putting the words "Michael Jackson" and Justin Beiber" in the same sentence all the time.
Probably because they're both as real and as talented as Mickey Mouse. (sorry Mickey).
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Old 17-08-2013, 18:55
Kat_12
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Michael Jackson overrated? When you can sing, write, produce, dance and play (ok he never really did it on stage, but he could apparently play a number of instruments) to anything approaching a fraction of his standard then you've got a right to say that.

I'm not saying I respect everything that guy was at all as a person. Not at all. Saying he was "good" or "evil" is too simple. At best he was clearly extremely mentally ill; the combination of the abuse he took from his father as a child causing him to regress to the childhood he never had in adult life, and the drugs he got hooked on after getting burnt on the Pepsi ad in the 80's clearly made him an erratic character at best. Add to that the fact that he obviously wanted to be white and changed his appearance so badly he was unrecognisable. At worst an absolute monster if the claims of paedophilia are true. I think he acts as a tragic message to all that if you get too much power it can ultimately destroy you because nobody is prepared to say no to you anymore. Opulence is truly the end.

Yet as a musical talent he was truly something else. Nothing like him and whilst many try, I don't think anyone will be like him again. I remember Noel Gallagher giving a brilliant quote around the time of that Martin Bashir documentary Jacko was foolish enough to do. Was something along the lines of "We all knew he was bonkers, why didn't he ask him about how he made his songs?"

And that is something that got buried in amongst all the controversy. You know the best thing about the "This Is It" movie released after his death was not just seeing the parts of the stage show, but seeing how they went about putting it together. You got to see "Jacko" the artist, calling the shots, wanting to get things perfect, giving orders out to people and pushing his musicians and dancers to play things the way he wanted. Actually talking in his deep natural voice and not that stupid Mickey Mouse squeak he spoke in when being interviewed. It’s a shame he was allowed to degenerate from this into the "Wacko" we saw the rest of the time, but as I say power sadly corrupts.

But respect for the talent. He defined his era, and I don't think you can do much more than that.
What standard was that then? Pretty poor in the eyes of many people. A few albums of quite fun pop music followed up by some overly earnest heal-the-world rubbish? Oh, yes, gold standard.

Overrated.

Sounds like the This Is It film is even more boring than I imagined.
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Old 17-08-2013, 20:29
dearmrman
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Michael Jackson overrated? When you can sing, write, produce, dance and play (ok he never really did it on stage, but he could apparently play a number of instruments) to anything approaching a fraction of his standard then you've got a right to say that.

I'm not saying I respect everything that guy was at all as a person. Not at all. Saying he was "good" or "evil" is too simple. At best he was clearly extremely mentally ill; the combination of the abuse he took from his father as a child causing him to regress to the childhood he never had in adult life, and the drugs he got hooked on after getting burnt on the Pepsi ad in the 80's clearly made him an erratic character at best. Add to that the fact that he obviously wanted to be white and changed his appearance so badly he was unrecognisable. At worst an absolute monster if the claims of paedophilia are true. I think he acts as a tragic message to all that if you get too much power it can ultimately destroy you because nobody is prepared to say no to you anymore. Opulence is truly the end.

Yet as a musical talent he was truly something else. Nothing like him and whilst many try, I don't think anyone will be like him again. I remember Noel Gallagher giving a brilliant quote around the time of that Martin Bashir documentary Jacko was foolish enough to do. Was something along the lines of "We all knew he was bonkers, why didn't he ask him about how he made his songs?"

And that is something that got buried in amongst all the controversy. You know the best thing about the "This Is It" movie released after his death was not just seeing the parts of the stage show, but seeing how they went about putting it together. You got to see "Jacko" the artist, calling the shots, wanting to get things perfect, giving orders out to people and pushing his musicians and dancers to play things the way he wanted. Actually talking in his deep natural voice and not that stupid Mickey Mouse squeak he spoke in when being interviewed. It’s a shame he was allowed to degenerate from this into the "Wacko" we saw the rest of the time, but as I say power sadly corrupts.

But respect for the talent. He defined his era, and I don't think you can do much more than that.
Sorry Prince had more talent in his little finger than MJ could possibly hope for. MJ knew this as he even named his son after him
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Old 17-08-2013, 20:50
FMKK
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Michael Jackson overrated? When you can sing, write, produce, dance and play (ok he never really did it on stage, but he could apparently play a number of instruments) to anything approaching a fraction of his standard then you've got a right to say that.

I'm not saying I respect everything that guy was at all as a person. Not at all. Saying he was "good" or "evil" is too simple. At best he was clearly extremely mentally ill; the combination of the abuse he took from his father as a child causing him to regress to the childhood he never had in adult life, and the drugs he got hooked on after getting burnt on the Pepsi ad in the 80's clearly made him an erratic character at best. Add to that the fact that he obviously wanted to be white and changed his appearance so badly he was unrecognisable. At worst an absolute monster if the claims of paedophilia are true. I think he acts as a tragic message to all that if you get too much power it can ultimately destroy you because nobody is prepared to say no to you anymore. Opulence is truly the end.

Yet as a musical talent he was truly something else. Nothing like him and whilst many try, I don't think anyone will be like him again. I remember Noel Gallagher giving a brilliant quote around the time of that Martin Bashir documentary Jacko was foolish enough to do. Was something along the lines of "We all knew he was bonkers, why didn't he ask him about how he made his songs?"

And that is something that got buried in amongst all the controversy. You know the best thing about the "This Is It" movie released after his death was not just seeing the parts of the stage show, but seeing how they went about putting it together. You got to see "Jacko" the artist, calling the shots, wanting to get things perfect, giving orders out to people and pushing his musicians and dancers to play things the way he wanted. Actually talking in his deep natural voice and not that stupid Mickey Mouse squeak he spoke in when being interviewed. It’s a shame he was allowed to degenerate from this into the "Wacko" we saw the rest of the time, but as I say power sadly corrupts.

But respect for the talent. He defined his era, and I don't think you can do much more than that.
So one must be a professional musician before having the right to not think Michael Jackson was all that good? What stupidity. Good thing I'm not actually dependent on you to tell me what 'rights' I have.
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Old 17-08-2013, 21:08
Beady Eye 2013
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Probably because they're both as real and as talented as Mickey Mouse. (sorry Mickey).
MJ was talented. Slightly ignorant to say that.
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Old 18-08-2013, 00:49
DRAGON LANCE
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Whoa! Some angry responses there!

I have nothing against you disliking Jackson's music at all- you are all fully entitled to do that.

What I take exception to is the blanket statement that he was "overrated." Why is somebody "overrated" because of your own personal dislike? Does whether somebody was actually talented at what they did revolve around your personal opinion?

I do not really like the music of Beyonce that much, but I wouldn't say she's overrated, she's obviously a greatly talented singer and performer.

I don't particularly like the music of Joe Satriani (google him if you've never heard of him). But if you know your guitar players you would be a total retard if you said the guy was overrated. He's technically one of the best guitar players who has ever lived.

And so the same with Jackson. You may hate everything he ever did. But to say he wasn't a bit darned good in his chosen field, is frankly, mind numbingly musically ignorant.

If Jackson wasn't a "standard" at what he did, I don't know what is. Love him or hate him he was a unique talent. Along with the likes of Prince, Springsteen and Madonna he owned the 80's, his music and videos were part of what defined that era.

Also: This Is It is indeed the most boring film you will ever see-if you have no interest in Jackson. It is quite interesting if you did appreciate what he did though.

Plus: I like Prince too. Liking Prince doesn't stop me appreciating MJ too. They were both genre leading artists of their era who brought different skills to the table. I do like your joke about calling the kid Prince though!
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Old 18-08-2013, 01:36
FMKK
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Whoa! Some angry responses there!

I have nothing against you disliking Jackson's music at all- you are all fully entitled to do that.

What I take exception to is the blanket statement that he was "overrated." Why is somebody "overrated" because of your own personal dislike? Does whether somebody was actually talented at what they did revolve around your personal opinion?

I do not really like the music of Beyonce that much, but I wouldn't say she's overrated, she's obviously a greatly talented singer and performer.

I don't particularly like the music of Joe Satriani (google him if you've never heard of him). But if you know your guitar players you would be a total retard if you said the guy was overrated. He's technically one of the best guitar players who has ever lived.

And so the same with Jackson. You may hate everything he ever did. But to say he wasn't a bit darned good in his chosen field, is frankly, mind numbingly musically ignorant.

If Jackson wasn't a "standard" at what he did, I don't know what is. Love him or hate him he was a unique talent. Along with the likes of Prince, Springsteen and Madonna he owned the 80's, his music and videos were part of what defined that era.

Also: This Is It is indeed the most boring film you will ever see-if you have no interest in Jackson. It is quite interesting if you did appreciate what he did though.

Plus: I like Prince too. Liking Prince doesn't stop me appreciating MJ too. They were both genre leading artists of their era who brought different skills to the table. I do like your joke about calling the kid Prince though!
I don't like his music. I think that his music is too highly praised in the media and is not as good to as it's made out to be. Therefore I think he's overrated.
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Old 18-08-2013, 07:11
dearmrman
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Whoa! Some angry responses there!

I have nothing against you disliking Jackson's music at all- you are all fully entitled to do that.

What I take exception to is the blanket statement that he was "overrated." Why is somebody "overrated" because of your own personal dislike? Does whether somebody was actually talented at what they did revolve around your personal opinion?

I do not really like the music of Beyonce that much, but I wouldn't say she's overrated, she's obviously a greatly talented singer and performer.

I don't particularly like the music of Joe Satriani (google him if you've never heard of him). But if you know your guitar players you would be a total retard if you said the guy was overrated. He's technically one of the best guitar players who has ever lived.

And so the same with Jackson. You may hate everything he ever did. But to say he wasn't a bit darned good in his chosen field, is frankly, mind numbingly musically ignorant.

If Jackson wasn't a "standard" at what he did, I don't know what is. Love him or hate him he was a unique talent. Along with the likes of Prince, Springsteen and Madonna he owned the 80's, his music and videos were part of what defined that era.

Also: This Is It is indeed the most boring film you will ever see-if you have no interest in Jackson. It is quite interesting if you did appreciate what he did though.

Plus: I like Prince too. Liking Prince doesn't stop me appreciating MJ too. They were both genre leading artists of their era who brought different skills to the table. I do like your joke about calling the kid Prince though!
It is always going to be personal opinions though, even from critics, yes I do think MJ was overrated, I don't think he was a great innovator, or brought anything new to the scene, just made it more popular. But he was talented at what he did.

I watched This is it, what I found quiet interesting was how head strong he was in calling the shots, and how he wanted things done and not taking no for an answer. Now that to me shows he gets what he wants, and is not this so called victim of record companies, family, media etc his fans like to portray.
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Old 18-08-2013, 08:08
unique
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Michael Jackson overrated? When you can sing, (ok he never really did it on stage)
that says it all.

he wasn't a musician, he didn't play instruments on any of his many records, other people did. most of the tracks he released were written by other people, including someone with the same name as him

http://www.disco-disco.com/artists/mick.shtml

his success was mainly down to songs other people wrote and produced for him, and then in adult life the videos that again other people put together for him, and dance moves and choreography created and taught to him by other people.

onstage not only did he not play any instruments, but he never played a single tour in his entire life where he sang all vocals throughout every song, and in his adult solo career he took that one step further to mime onstage to what became more and more tracks through time until the point where he was mostly miming on stage. now what kind of singer could be considered great if they can't fulfill the primary objective of a singer, and sing onstage? he had the excuse of being on drink or drugs and not being able to sing, but other artists get drunk or take drugs and still perform onstage without miming. if he couldn't do it he simply shouldn't have been on the stage.

you just need to watch "This is shit" as an example of what i'm saying. out of all the hundreds of hours of footage they shot they didn't have a single song where he sang throughout the whole song from the same performance. every single song was a cut and paste composite from difference days footage, mostly set to archived audio that was synched to the footage - the reason why they had to cut and paste so it synched together. and that is footage of someone preparing to go on "tour". i don't know if you've seen any of the other rehearsals that are circulating, but the first thing that strikes you is how much he farts around avoiding doing the work of performing. if you compare that to rehearsals of other artists who get stuck in with rehearsing and getting the music right it really shows him up.

he is over rated because people like yourself rate him for things far too highly, who give him credit for things he wasn't responsible for, and other things to which his input was limited. you don't give tom cruise the credit for the mission impossible movies, it's the writers, producers, directors, cameramen, editing, lighting, special effects, advertising and promotion. just like a MJ album, he only plays a part in it, singing on music other people put together for him. just look what happened when quincy jones stopped producing his work, his sales declined greatly
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Old 18-08-2013, 10:57
Rooftopcowboy
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that says it all.

he wasn't a musician, he didn't play instruments on any of his many records, other people did. most of the tracks he released were written by other people, including someone with the same name as him

http://www.disco-disco.com/artists/mick.shtml

his success was mainly down to songs other people wrote and produced for him, and then in adult life the videos that again other people put together for him, and dance moves and choreography created and taught to him by other people.

onstage not only did he not play any instruments, but he never played a single tour in his entire life where he sang all vocals throughout every song, and in his adult solo career he took that one step further to mime onstage to what became more and more tracks through time until the point where he was mostly miming on stage. now what kind of singer could be considered great if they can't fulfill the primary objective of a singer, and sing onstage? he had the excuse of being on drink or drugs and not being able to sing, but other artists get drunk or take drugs and still perform onstage without miming. if he couldn't do it he simply shouldn't have been on the stage.

you just need to watch "This is shit" as an example of what i'm saying. out of all the hundreds of hours of footage they shot they didn't have a single song where he sang throughout the whole song from the same performance. every single song was a cut and paste composite from difference days footage, mostly set to archived audio that was synched to the footage - the reason why they had to cut and paste so it synched together. and that is footage of someone preparing to go on "tour". i don't know if you've seen any of the other rehearsals that are circulating, but the first thing that strikes you is how much he farts around avoiding doing the work of performing. if you compare that to rehearsals of other artists who get stuck in with rehearsing and getting the music right it really shows him up.


he is over rated because people like yourself rate him for things far too highly, who give him credit for things he wasn't responsible for, and other things to which his input was limited. you don't give tom cruise the credit for the mission impossible movies, it's the writers, producers, directors, cameramen, editing, lighting, special effects, advertising and promotion. just like a MJ album, he only plays a part in it, singing on music other people put together for him. just look what happened when quincy jones stopped producing his work, his sales declined greatly
Disagree on that, the This Is It rehearsals were not the final dress rehearsals, they weren't even at the venue where the concerts were to take place (the O2) so it would be normal for an artist to only sing part of the song and only rehearse the key moments such as key changes, set changes or dance routines.

and I find it unfair to judge his career based on how he was during his last days, when he was in a very drugged out state. Using the same logic are we to judge Elvis' career and impact on his bloated Vegas days? or The Beatles career on Paul McCartney's Frog Chorus?
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Old 18-08-2013, 11:27
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Old 18-08-2013, 11:38
abarthman
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I never hear anyone talking about Michael Jackson or hear his music playing.

I can understand why nobody in their right mind would ever want to express anything but disgust and revulsion for him and his ilk.

I see there are still a handful of die-hard Michael Jackson fans on DS. It's sad that people are desperate to ignore the blatantly obvious just because they liked his music and dancing.
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Old 18-08-2013, 12:22
unique
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Disagree on that, the This Is It rehearsals were not the final dress rehearsals, they weren't even at the venue where the concerts were to take place (the O2) so it would be normal for an artist to only sing part of the song and only rehearse the key moments such as key changes, set changes or dance routines.
what do you know about rehearsals? have you ever seen a big act rehearse in front of you?

with 100s of hours of rehearsal footage, they couldn't pick one single song that was fully sung. the point of rehearsals is to go through songs, but they couldn't find enough decent footage so they had to splice stuff together. if the rehearsals were going well there would be loads of good footage. also if you listen to the music it's the same arrangements as his previous tours, which are basically the same as the album versions or very similar



and I find it unfair to judge his career based on how he was during his last days, when he was in a very drugged out state. Using the same logic are we to judge Elvis' career and impact on his bloated Vegas days? or The Beatles career on Paul McCartney's Frog Chorus?

we should measure based on the entire career. as i mentioned before, the bloated elvis period wasn't that bad, it was considerably better than MJ's
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