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Don't sink the CBOAT, next-gen rumour overload


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Old 18-08-2013, 19:53
chopoff
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Many rumours for next-gen has originated from a NeoGAF user 'crazy buttocks on a train'. They have leaked stuff for years - way back to before the 360 launched.

They have a very proven track records. Missiles hit their targets.

They've just posted a whole heap of stuff on GAF.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=654903

Summary:[LIST][*]No Gamescom Xbox One live stream for 'real reasons'.[*]Xbox One architecture is not yet finalised.[*]Xbox One not launching in 21 countries due to localisation is an excuse. Is down to the 180s and changes they've had to make.[*]PS4 is launching late October.[*]PS4 SDK is fully complete, you can master your game today.[*]MS has money-hatted Platinum for an exclusive, and other Japanese devs[*]Key talent at Black Tusk have left.[*]MS indie policy to be finalised after launch.[*]Kinect-less may appear in 2014 (probably if sales are poor)[/LIST]
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Old 18-08-2013, 20:02
munta
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Many rumours for next-gen has originated from a NeoGAF user 'crazy buttocks on a train'. They have leaked stuff for years - way back to before the 360 launched.

They have a very proven track records. Missiles hit their targets.

They've just posted a whole heap of stuff on GAF.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=654903

Summary:[LIST][*]No Gamescom Xbox One live stream for 'real reasons'.[*]Xbox One architecture is not yet finalised.[*]Not launching in 21 countries due to localisation is an excuse. Is down to the 180s and changes they've had to make.[*]PS4 is launching late October.[*]PS4 SDK is fully complete, you can master your game today.[*]MS has money-hatted Platinum for an exclusive, and other Japanese devs[*]Key talent at Black Tusk have left.[*]Indie policy to be finalised after launch.[*]Kinect-less may appear in 2014 (probably if sales are poor)[/LIST]
Sounds all very plausible.
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Old 18-08-2013, 20:12
He4rt
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Some good news here for everyone. Looks good.
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Old 18-08-2013, 20:17
chopoff
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I stuck MS in a few points to clarify! They also mentioned 15-20% performance drops on Xbox One with latest builds, but left it out as they say it is to be expected, and will be no doubt sorted.
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Old 18-08-2013, 20:30
gamercraig
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This all sounds perfectly right. We know Sony have passed FCC but MS haven't yet. I can see X1 not coming out in November. As I've said before elsewhere, it was commented at the time in Feb at the PS4 announcement that MS were caught out and they have been rushing ever since. It would have been better to wait, get things right and be out six months later. Didn't do the PS3 any harm long-term being last to market
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Old 18-08-2013, 20:31
He4rt
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I cant see the part about key talent at black tusk leaving?

This i a rough translation of the blackTusk part.

BigPark nuked their game. It was a MOBA, but it's dead dead dead now. A whole studio focusing on TV services! All their best talent went to Black Tust or left MS entirely. Rare's still Kinect focused, no matter what else you've heard.
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Old 18-08-2013, 21:19
wildphantom!
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Just logged in to GAF and found this

Microsoft funding a game for Platinum only for Japan with no EU/NA release!? Microsoft moneyhatting Japanese dev's didn't work out last time and now Platinum have two games funded by console makers.

PS4 October launch seems locked in.

With the Xbox One still in development it looks like we will definitely see a lack of hardware volume, but CBOAT hasn't confirmed that there will be a delay and we now know 100% that localisation was BS.

Can't believe Microsoft are still making Rare do Kinect titles - I don't think anyone left Black Tusk just that some MS's 1st party developer's from BigPark have left to join Black Tusk as their game has been cancelled .

Kinectless Xbox One for April, just in time for TitanFall... Depends on Sony's momentum to see if this will make an impact.

CBOAT is teasing something in September. He confirmed Microsoft have a one year timed exclusive deal with EA for TitanFall but I wonder if there is a clause in the contract regarding sales numbers between now and April. Could be very interesting.
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Old 19-08-2013, 05:59
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He confirmed Microsoft have a one year timed exclusive deal with EA for TitanFall but I wonder if there is a clause in the contract regarding sales numbers between now and April. Could be very interesting.
Respawn Ent. have stated that they chose to develop Titanfall using the Source Engine as it plays very well with the PS3. They wouldn't say that if there was no chance of the game appearing on it.
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Old 19-08-2013, 09:06
wildphantom!
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Respawn Ent. have stated that they chose to develop Titanfall using the Source Engine as it plays very well with the PS3. They wouldn't say that if there was no chance of the game appearing on it.
CBOAT leaked that it was a timed exclusive for a year on Microsoft consoles. So it will get a PS4 release, not sure if It is too late for a PS3 release - April 2015.
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Old 19-08-2013, 17:54
MartinImber
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CBOAT leaked that it was a timed exclusive for a year on Microsoft consoles. So it will get a PS4 release, not sure if It is too late for a PS3 release - April 2015.
Doeasn't matter anyway plenty on the PS4
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Old 16-10-2013, 11:07
Davonator
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More CBoat stuff (not sure if I buy these CBoat 'leaks', but i'll put it out there)

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/16...han-ps4s-1080p
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Old 16-10-2013, 12:48
Dan27
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I'm steering well away from the Xbox One at this time. Nothing I hear, official or not gives me confidence about the platform in general.
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Old 16-10-2013, 12:50
2Dshmuplover
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Christ, they call themselves "Extreme tech" and they don't even know the fundamentals of an 8 year old console?

Originally Posted by Extremetech
The PlayStation 3 supports 1080p (1920◊1080) output, but a large swath of games only displayed in 720p. Meanwhile, the Xbox 360 caps out at 720p. This upcoming generation, both consoles are supposed to support 1080p.
The Xbox 360 does not "cap out at 720p", not only does it have a hardware upscaler that supports 1080p output but a good number of titles render natively at 1080p60 (DarkStar One, Perfect Dark HD, Rayman Legends/Origins, Daytona USA, Guardian Heroes etc). Don't these guys who write for this site know anything?
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Old 16-10-2013, 12:52
Dan27
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Daytona USA is 1080p60 native?

Might have to get me some of that
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Old 16-10-2013, 12:53
2Dshmuplover
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Daytona USA is 1080p60 native?

Might have to get me some of that
It looks lovely.
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Old 16-10-2013, 13:25
2Dshmuplover
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What CBOAT is saying with regards to 900p might be true to a degree in that we will see a number of titles sporting that resolution, however we already know the answer to this due to the in-depth interview with the X1 lead architects at Digital Foundry which can be read here.

The Xbox One was optimised for 1080p output and features an enhanced hardware scaler with multiple layers to allow developers to set their own resolution (dynamically if they choose) and keep HUD elements always 1080p, plus the GPU itself was optimised for native 1080p output.

It only stands to reason that if you look at Forza Motorsport series on 360, which all ran at 720p60, then look at Forza 5 which runs at 1080p60 then by simple logic it shouldn't be too difficult to get other games running at 1080p with half the framerate which will likely be the standard.

Originally Posted by Andrew Goossen {lead architect}

We've chosen to let title developers make the trade-off of resolution vs. per-pixel quality in whatever way is most appropriate to their game content. A lower resolution generally means that there can be more quality per pixel. With a high-quality scaler and antialiasing and render resolutions such as 720p or '900p', some games look better with more GPU processing going to each pixel than to the number of pixels; others look better at 1080p with less GPU processing per pixel. We built Xbox One with a higher quality scaler than on Xbox 360, and added an additional display plane, to provide more freedom to developers in this area.

This matter of choice was a lesson we learned from Xbox 360 where at launch we had a Technical Certification Requirement mandate that all titles had to be 720p or better with at least 2x anti-aliasing - and we later ended up eliminating that TCR as we found it was ultimately better to allow developers to make the resolution decision themselves. Game developers are naturally incented to make the highest-quality visuals possible and so will choose the most appropriate trade-off between quality of each pixel vs. number of pixels for their games.
TBH even with a worse case scenario of PS4 multiplats running native 1080p and X1 versions running at 900p, I don't even have a problem with it when the differences are so minimal, it's absolutely not comparable to the differences we saw between 720p and lower sub-HD resolutions this gen.

This is what we're talking about here: 1080p vs 900p
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Old 16-10-2013, 14:16
dwr budr
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What CBOAT is saying with regards to 900p might be true to a degree in that we will see a number of titles sporting that resolution, however we already know the answer to this due to the in-depth interview with the X1 lead architects at Digital Foundry which can be read here.

The Xbox One was optimised for 1080p output and features an enhanced hardware scaler with multiple layers to allow developers to set their own resolution (dynamically if they choose) and keep HUD elements always 1080p, plus the GPU itself was optimised for native 1080p output.

It only stands to reason that if you look at Forza Motorsport series on 360, which all ran at 720p60, then look at Forza 5 which runs at 1080p60 then by simple logic it shouldn't be too difficult to get other games running at 1080p with half the framerate which will likely be the standard.



TBH even with a worse case scenario of PS4 multiplats running native 1080p and X1 versions running at 900p, I don't even have a problem with it when the differences are so minimal, it's absolutely not comparable to the differences we saw between 720p and lower sub-HD resolutions this gen.

This is what we're talking about here: 1080p vs 900p

Back again with the damage limitation? at best the x1 is looking like a hitch-potch amalgamation of badly conceived ideas.

And as for the Digital Foundry interview, various devs and insiders over on Gaf have rubbished half the claims made in the interview, which you should know very well having been banned for trying to defend bogus claims.
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Old 16-10-2013, 14:27
2Dshmuplover
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Ah you again, wonderful. You know the system architects are more qualified to discuss the X1 innards than NeoGAF forum members and I don't recall anyone refuting the claims made in that interview. I'm not suggesting anything that's not already been relayed by the architects themselves, if you have a problem with that then it's on your shoulders, no-one else's.
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Old 16-10-2013, 15:17
thomas2400
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Ah you again, wonderful. You know the system architects are more qualified to discuss the X1 innards than NeoGAF forum members and I don't recall anyone refuting the claims made in that interview. I'm not suggesting anything that's not already been relayed by the architects themselves, if you have a problem with that then it's on your shoulders, no-one else's.
Yes and No, of course X1 Devs know more about the system than anyone as they made it, but on the other hand you have developer after developer that gain nothing from saying stuff like this and they are always saying bad things, this time about resolution, about the X1

Now tell me what is more reasonable

MS are lying and claiming the X1 is better than it is because they need to sell consoles and make money

Devs are lying even though they stand to loss money because if less people buy an X1 then their market is automatically smaller
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Old 16-10-2013, 15:28
Hotbird
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TBH even with a worse case scenario of PS4 multiplats running native 1080p and X1 versions running at 900p, I don't even have a problem with it when the differences are so minimal, it's absolutely not comparable to the differences we saw between 720p and lower sub-HD resolutions this gen.

This is what we're talking about here: 1080p vs 900p
I totally agree with you that a slightly lower resolution makes minimal difference.

But I fail to understand how a game running at a lower res 900p verses 1080p and a current generation game running at 630p versus 720p are absolutely not comparable.

Either running at a lower resolution only makes a minimal difference or it makes a big difference. Personally I favour the former having play a number of lower resolution games this generation and the differences were minimal IMHO.

From what I can understand of what you're saying running at a lower resolution this generation was a really bad thing, but running at a lower resolution next generation will be fine .
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Old 16-10-2013, 15:31
darkthunder35
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I totally agree with you that a slightly lower resolution makes minimal difference.

But I fail to understand how a game running at a lower res 900p verses 1080p and a current generation game running at 630p versus 720p are absolutely not comparable.

Either running at a lower resolution only makes a minimal difference or it makes a big difference. Personally I favour the former having play a number of lower resolution games this generation and the differences were minimal IMHO.

From what I can understand of what you're saying running at a lower resolution this generation was a really bad thing, but running at a lower resolution next generation will be fine .
I think the point he was making was that next gen if there is a res difference it's not such a big deal because both are running in HD, whereas this gen usually a game is HD on one and not the other, and that does notice.
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Old 16-10-2013, 15:42
Hotbird
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I think the point he was making was that next gen if there is a res difference it's not such a big deal because both are running in HD, whereas this gen usually a game is HD on one and not the other, and that does notice.
But even with that a lower resolution has not diminished my enjoyment of the games I have played with a lower resolution. GTA4 for example still looked good on PS3 even though it had a lower than HD resolution.

Some games look a little off compared to other version due to lower resolution but it only creates minimal differences whether its a 630p versus 720p or 900p versus 1080p.
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Old 16-10-2013, 15:46
darkthunder35
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But even with that a lower resolution has not diminished my enjoyment of the games I have played with a lower resolution. GTA4 for example still looked good on PS3 even though it had a lower than HD resolution.

Some games look a little off compared to other version due to lower resolution but it only creates minimal differences whether its a 630p versus 720p or 900p versus 1080p.
I agree that it doesn't lower my enjoyment of a game either but I think to say the differences are minimal is a bit wrong. I have a 360 and PS3 and games such as COD and Red Dead Redemption are vastly superior on the xbox. The difference is very noticeable.
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Old 16-10-2013, 16:03
2Dshmuplover
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Yes and No, of course X1 Devs know more about the system than anyone as they made it, but on the other hand you have developer after developer that gain nothing from saying stuff like this and they are always saying bad things, this time about resolution, about the X1

Now tell me what is more reasonable

MS are lying and claiming the X1 is better than it is because they need to sell consoles and make money

Devs are lying even though they stand to loss money because if less people buy an X1 then their market is automatically smaller
It runs a little deeper than that though, we have no idea if CBOAT is a developer or not and it's not all been negative, a confirmed developer has already refuted CBOAT's most recent claims about 900p (says it right in the article)

In response to CBOAT, an Xbox One developer took to Reddit and responded to the 900p claims. The developer (who has been confirmed as such), stated that the 900p claims were true, but that the resolution was output from consoles specifically made for stress testing. This means that the performance of those consoles should not be indicative of the final, retail unitís performance.
These other developers have all been anonymous sources and yet on the other hand we've had high profile devs like John Carmack and Hideo Kokima saying quite openly the hardware is pretty much on par and yet some have done their very best to twist their words to mean something else. We've had the lead architects who know more about the hardware than anyone (including devs) voluntarily give in-depth interviews to explain how the tech works and what components are optimised.

Very few people will truly understand the ramifications of what they were talking about since it was a highly technical discussion and certainly not enough to effect sales, as you put it. The games are what will sell the machine but at the same time there is nothing wrong with reassuring people that your machine is capable and there was a lot of confusion over the specifications which needed clearing up.

That whole Edge article with the anonymous sources was based on a speed advantage on pre-optimised code which means very little, coupled with the documented struggles MS have had with their drivers prior to the release of "Mono". The PS4 is no doubt more powerful overall, I'm not disputing that, I'm only against the claims that the X1 can't hold it's own this upcoming generation. We can look at on-paper specs all we like but at the end of the day it is about the games themselves, and based on what we've seen thus far I don't think most of the scepticism and scrutiny regarding the capabilities of the machine has been warranted.

One thing I am sure of though is that I'll be grateful for the launch to arrive in 5 weeks so we can all get over the speculation.
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Old 16-10-2013, 16:08
2Dshmuplover
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I totally agree with you that a slightly lower resolution makes minimal difference.

But I fail to understand how a game running at a lower res 900p verses 1080p and a current generation game running at 630p versus 720p are absolutely not comparable.

Either running at a lower resolution only makes a minimal difference or it makes a big difference. Personally I favour the former having play a number of lower resolution games this generation and the differences were minimal IMHO.

From what I can understand of what you're saying running at a lower resolution this generation was a really bad thing, but running at a lower resolution next generation will be fine .
You fail to see that? it's pretty simple regarding fixed resolution panels that the higher the resolution is the better it looks and the differences between them become less evident. Of course there are other factors to take into consideration too such as the way AA is applied, which also made a difference regarding some of the PS3 sub-HD games mentioned above but also the quality of scaler involved.

You're once again insinuating I'm being a little hypocritical and higher resolution will always be preferable but there is a difference between 1080p > 900p and 720p > 600p.
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