Oh, a little harsh I think?

There was Anouska who appeared on BB Australia. And has probably since been auditioning to appear on BB Belgium, BB China, BB Denmark, BB Egypt, ...

I’m sure I had the displeasure of seeing Lisa on some obscure Sky channel presenting some show about nose jobs – yes I think she’d had the sense to have hers sorted out first.

Then there’s the one who, shush, we must not mention, who’s done some radio presenting north of the border and has written articles for various media groups – until he got himself Banned.

And finally Gos, who has written his own cookbook and done the odd tv appearance. Rumour has it he may have his own cookery show soon – but I’ve heard that rumour since about the middle of BB4. :yawn:

Yes, the fact that Shell took her clothes off, talked about pleasuring herself using sex toys, would inevitably lead to Lad's mags offers, etc, but to say Shell was some how 'interesting' is a bit far fetched.
For ten weeks, I thought Shell was the BB5 cook! & not a contestant at all!!!

Couldn't agree more with you TNWB

Kate's natural home is radio, where she can do her impressions, have a laugh & take the p!ss.

Kate is based, neither in the UK or Spain so a long term radio contract is difficult to attain.

Interesting in the sense that Shell's childhood - not least with a serious illness overcome, a very successful academic career and a long term relationship with her only boyfriend/childhood sweet heart are individually the sort of things that magazine readers find interesting and they are all part of the Shell story. Jodie Foster actually won an Oscar for a longer version of Shell's story of saving sheep from slaughter. Shell's also very multifaceted. In the house you had Shell looking like everything from a librarian to a vogue model to an advert for lawn mowers - that means she can sell OK covers dressed in lingerie or posh frocks and lthe ads mags can go with the underwear. Outside the house you have the serious academic starring in Front - which is itself an interesting comment on the mess Ruth Kelly inherited in higher education funding.

Not sure how Shell could be seen as not being interesting in the house either - Shell gave you a whole range of characters from crying princess to the bride from hell who was the only one with the balls (apart from Nadia) to stand up to Victor. Naked lawn mowing must also rank in the more innovative Big Brother moments ever. Apart from the shagging of Stu and the unseen bits of fight night , everything else in BB5 had been done before. Even in a passive role, Michelle and Victor - who had two of the biggest storylines in the BB5 plot - wouldn't have had a story without Shell to react to. In a house where most of the characters were pretty simply drawn - from gangsta to bunnyboiler to anarchist to the obsessive compulsive body builder - Shell was also one of most complex characters - she cried a lot but it was Shell hanging from the bar when fat Victor fell off. As everyone in the house remarked, she was also the one who actually changed most on the show.

That's confusing their media exposure now with what we remember.

I (at least) remember a great deal about almost everyone in BB4.

In this forum, BB4 seems to be the most hated and despised BB, but I enjoyed it more than most of the others. Whenever I see clips from BBs 1 or 2 now, they're very dull or else cringe-making rubbish. I never thought the confrontatin with Nick was interesting (oooh, he wrote names on paper ), for example, but when I see it now I'm reminded of just how dull the whole thing was. It was interesting at the time only because it was the first. BB2 was irritating. "Helenisms" were amusing, but we paid for them with the Helen from Hell in BB3 and on Heat covers ever since. Plus there was show-ruining Jonny. BB4 was the first I could watch for long periods with any enjoyment.

In a way, that's right. Iain usually found something to make fun of. But those mistakes weren't "classic".

Kate was a good presenter for RI:SE. She was lively and fun and a good foil for Iain -- much better than the vastly overrated and dull Edith Boredom, the woman who did fatal damage to the show at a crucial point in its history

Striped beaver Shell and Jodie Foster and Hollywood in the same sentence? Please do not put ideas into her agent's head.

Could you refresh my mind as to the occasion when Nadia, balls and all, stood up to Victor?

Did Shell change for good or not since being on the show? A closet nudist changed to a full blown one for lads magazines and tabloid news?

Changed as in getting loads of dosh for her bare pancake tush?

You've forgotten Emma.

But I agree: Shell was one of the most interesting BB housemates ever. The late night sentry duty sessions with Shell and any combination of other housemates, and the pleasantly drunken final night were among the best moments in BB5.

(And before anyone asks, no I don't fancy her and don't even think she looks very good in many of her photo shoots, though occasionally she looks great when the photographer's good enough. The Richard and Judy cameraman for the photography item seemed to know how to do it.)

It's true that I would not use the word 'classic' in connection with the very many examples of Kate's stupidity and ignorance that she displayed every day while she was on RI:SE - in themselves they were not that memorable, but they were certainly numerous. I will agree that she could be described as 'lively' (lively plus dumb is a combination I find particularly irritating, but to each his/her own) and I also don't rate Edith Bowman, but I can't agree with any of your other comments.

It's all relative.

I think the Kate Lawler/Iain Lee incarnation of RI:SE was underrated. It was by far the best watched version of RI:SE, in terms of audience figures. I was sad to see it go, not only because Kate Lawler, the best bb housemate in my opinion was there, but because it was unconventional & anarchic. Television by 'numbers', which is what we generally get these days is boring.

The fact that Kate & Iain were poles apart made the show. The chemistry they had was fantastic.

Lulu g, you might have a better knowledge or a better grasp of certain aspects of culture/current affairs than Kate, but as I say, it is all relative.

Kate made many mistakes, as did Iain. The problem was, Kate being the most high profile presenter was going to be criticised & Iain wasn't. Iain was lacking in many areas regarding contemporary popular culture & would often refer to Kate for advice/information. Kate knew very little about crappy sci-fi or cultural nonentities from the past and admitted it.

Iain would often dwell on Kate's mistakes or highlight her lack of knowledge in certain areas. Kate would help Iain when he made a mistake, such as forgetting a guest's name or when he displayed ignorance of popular culture. For instance, Kate would put Iain right about the current R&B & dance music scene.

Well, new_rose, your recollection of RI:SE is significantly different from mine, but I think we may as well just leave it at that. (I had to smile at your description of Kate as 'the most high profile presenter', though. )

Ignorance, yes; and when a viewer knows something a presenter doesn't, they often interpret it as stupidity when it's not.

And also when it is.

How do you know?

I suppose I don't absolutely know, any more than you absolutely know that 'when a viewer knows something a presenter doesn't, they often interpret it as stupidity when it's not.' In both cases, it stands to reason, though, don't you think? It seems unlikely that said viewer would see stupidity only where it doesn't exist and not where it does.

It seems very likely to me that people will interpret ignornace as stupidity; I've often seen claims that someone was stupid when the only evidence was that they didn't know something or had made some mistake on a live tv show that could be for any of a number of reasons, such as being distracted by something else or being tired.

Then, there can be evidence that they're not so stupid after all, such as newspaper interviews in the interviewer decides that they're actually quite smart.

Next, other viewers may have a very different impression. thenetworkbabe, for example, says Kate has "wit and a sense of fun." If stupidity was right there to see, there wouldn't be so much disagreement about it.

Yes, I knew exactly what you meant. I understand that people sometimes interpret ignorance as stupidity. At the same time, ignorance and stupidity often do co-exist in the same individual. I certainly wouldn't write somebody off as stupid simply on the basis of one instance of not knowing something or one mistake on a live TV show.

I'm not so sure about your final statement. It doesn't take into account the 'love-is-blind' factor. I don't necessarily mean literally 'love' - call it support, devotion, or whatever - but, if a person is strongly biased in someone's favour, he/she might well see in that person only what he/she wants to see. There may even be an element of that, to a certain, but much lesser, extent, if a person is biased against someone. With regard to Kate, prior to RI:SE, I didn't particularly like her, but I had no strong feelings towards her, and I certainly didn't have any preconceived notion that she was either stupid or ignorant.

But after a few ...? Given that it was a two-hour live show five days a week and the difference in age and interests between Kate and Iain, I don't think the sorts of mistakes etc that she made have to be down to stupidity. And I'm not saying people come to RI:SE with a preconcceived ideas about Kate and then see what they want to see. It can be much more subtle than that, and they can be influenced by their friends, what they read on the internet and in newspapers, and so on.

Also, people aren't always aware of their own biases. Over in the "Any black winner ever?" thread (post 590 on page 24), I posted a link and some excerpts from an article about that from the Washington Post. You might find it interesting.


I don't think bias against has to be lesser in its effects.

The media, whether it be the tabloids or celebrity magazines, had no real interest in the lives of Iain, Dougie & Zora. I'm not saying Kate is a megastar - no one from Big Brother is, or ever will be - but Kate was more high profile than her co-presenters.

Your point is applicable to fans of all BB contestants.

Maybe, your defense of BB housemates could be described as 'blind devotion'. It's all a matter of opinion.

Obviously.


I wasn't defending any BB housemate.

Cough, splutter - this really made me laugh - sorry!

'Any' of the others were more high profile than Kate.

Her awful gaffs were cringingly embarrassing (her Hitler reference was a prime example) or her 'accidental' knicker flashes for the lads, how desperate was that.

Apart from a few diehard fans, the rest of the audience was made up of her horde of critics tuning in for forum ammunition which she delivered by the barrowload.

listening to the radio today, Johnathan Woodgate's comeback has been pencilled in for late April. It just gets later and later, god knows how he passed his medical!

Well, I know that if I was shacked up with Our Katie, I'd have constant groin strains.............but apparently he has a sore leg.

It'll be all that one-legged dancing.