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Freeview PVR’s - Sony RDR HXD-710 and RDR HXD-910 (merged) |
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#76 |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBS137
Why all the despondency about certain Sony "higher priced bracket" DVD recorders still available, only having "analogue" tuners.
Maybe for some a better solution would be a separate DVD recorder, but I'm happy to have one box that does the lot!
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#77 |
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: South Lincs.
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Well Munchkinn, my experience is the only people that will give glowing reports on Freeview recption, are generally viewers in bad analogue reception areas, when digital "will" be, or appear to be, a big improvement, due to the absence of low signal strength speckles.
My personal detestation of Freeview, is the total erratic nature of picture quality, shimmering on fast moving objects, and blocky images on others. That is excluding the intermittent glitches caused by interference from fridge doors, washing machines etc, a problem which will never really be solved due to the nature / frequencies that the signal is being received on, the only people liable NOT to experience that, possibly living within 10 or15 miles from the transmitter, where the signal strength is liable to mask these deficiences. Anyone purchasing a superior DVD recorder such as one from the Sony range, can be guaranteed to capture faithfully every one of the deficiences mentioned. Freeview can never match digital satellite quality, and anyone with one of the videos mentioned, should use the satellite if they are critically minded regards to image quality. I by the way, speak as an ex (retired) broadcast engineer |
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#78 |
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 34
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JBS137 - I don't agree with the argument that separate components is better in this case. Separate components for audio set-ups may be better but there are several advantages to having a combined digital tuner and DVD recorder. Firstly, improved recording quality - combined units can record the digital broadcast digitally i.e. a digital (DVB) to digital (DVD) conversion. With separate units the digital broadcast has to be converted to the digital tuners analogue output and then re-encoded from analogue to digital by the DVD recorder. The second advantage is channel changing and programming (e.g. using the EPG and not a timer). Most DVD recorders simply cannot change channel on an external digital tuner, even those that can have to use a separate IR transmitter which can be a bit hit and miss e.g. will control some boxes and not others.
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#79 |
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: South Lincs.
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garydhooper. Yes!, you make a valid point, keeping everything digital right up to the final point of viewing / listening, will in theory keep maximum quality, plus the other aspects of EPG / channel switching will also, or should, be better.
My personal "gripe" is a large number of people adopt the attitude that anything digital MUST be good, which is total rubbish. Even the signal conversions necessary when coupling external units together, if done properly, will have no appreciable noticeable effect of the quality of either the sound or vision to the viewer, although admittedly if a test signal was used, coupled to measuring instruments, it would reveal a slight deficiency, but of a magnitude that would be classed by engineers as "academic". |
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#80 |
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: South Lincs.
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garydhooper. Yes!, you make a valid point, keeping everything digital right up to the final point of viewing / listening, will in theory keep maximum quality, plus the other aspects of EPG / channel switching will also, or should, be better.
My personal "gripe" is a large number of people adopt the attitude that anything digital MUST be good, which is total rubbish. Even the signal conversions necessary when coupling external units together, if done properly, will have no appreciable noticeable effect of the quality of either the sound or vision to the viewer, although admittedly if a test signal was used, coupled to measuring instruments, it would reveal a slight deficiency, but of a magnitude that would be classed by engineers as "academic". |
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#81 |
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 14,808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBS137
garydhooper. Yes!, you make a valid point, keeping everything digital right up to the final point of viewing / listening, will in theory keep maximum quality, plus the other aspects of EPG / channel switching will also, or should, be better.
My personal "gripe" is a large number of people adopt the attitude that anything digital MUST be good, which is total rubbish. Even the signal conversions necessary when coupling external units together, if done properly, will have no appreciable noticeable effect of the quality of either the sound or vision to the viewer, although admittedly if a test signal was used, coupled to measuring instruments, it would reveal a slight deficiency, but of a magnitude that would be classed by engineers as "academic". |
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#82 |
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Join Date: May 2005
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planetnokia. Spot on! Although in my comments I was not necessarily comparing the difference between "same image" quality, in being viewed between analogue and digital reception, you are quite correct in what you say. Fine detail and skin tones are sometimes appalling when the picture is viewed via digital reception, and too many people are fooled by digital NOT being subject to weaker signal speckles, and judge this aspect alone as "superior", which is about the only thing that is!
Regards to my opinion on Freeview, anyone with satellite and Freeview, should switch rapidly between whats seen on the same image, between the two digital offerings. On a variety of test pictures, it will be seen just how inferior terrestrial digital really is, I personally only use mine when I am already recording something from satellite, but want to record something else at the same time, two of my analogue channels being subject to signal flutter, one of the few times that I am prepared to accept terrestrial digital quality. I will say though, that digital signals can in many cases reach far further than analogue ones will. I can watch Yorkshire TV from the Belmont transmitter, some 50 miles away from me, and with a 50% quality signal. On analogue at this range, there is nothing. Therein again, my criticisms are not about distance of reception! |
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#83 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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Erm, but this analogue versus digital argument is somewhat academic given that analogue is going to be switched off. Also, with regard to the techincal merits of an analogue picture versus a digital picture, I think we're entering the territory of LP versus CD - no one has ever won that argument and no one ever will!
I guess I'm one of those lucky people who moved into my house nearly nine years ago and got a perfect analogue picture on all channels and then, when I bought a STB, got a perfect digital picture too. I own the Sony VTX-D800U and think that the picture I get from it is crisper than the analogue one, which is better than most and certainly no worse than any other I've seen. I've heard other people moan about motion blur on DTT but, to be honest, I've never really seen that. As with different makes of DVD player, some STBs are better at digital conversion than others and, obviously, the better the signal quality available to the decoder the less time it has to spend error correcting/guessing. |
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#84 |
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 284
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The sooner all recorders have Digital Terrestial (or indeed Satellite) Tuners, then the sooner we can all move on!
The delay by manufacturers is for profit maximisation only. As to quality of DTT (Freeview) I assume this is about quality of signal and not content - as such transmission power will increase as analogue is switched off and signals will come up to standard. There is the other issue of too many channels being squeesed into the non-BBC transponders and this is another subject which the government/OFCOM are aware of. It's about greed versus quality again. There can be no sustainable argument for hanging onto a technology which we all know is on the way out!!! |
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#85 |
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Join Date: Feb 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticMouflon
Erm, but this analogue versus digital argument is somewhat academic given that analogue is going to be switched off. Also, with regard to the techincal merits of an analogue picture versus a digital picture, I think we're entering the territory of LP versus CD - no one has ever won that argument and no one ever will!
I guess I'm one of those lucky people who moved into my house nearly nine years ago and got a perfect analogue picture on all channels and then, when I bought a STB, got a perfect digital picture too. I own the Sony VTX-D800U and think that the picture I get from it is crisper than the analogue one, which is better than most and certainly no worse than any other I've seen. I've heard other people moan about motion blur on DTT but, to be honest, I've never really seen that. As with different makes of DVD player, some STBs are better at digital conversion than others and, obviously, the better the signal quality available to the decoder the less time it has to spend error correcting/guessing. |
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#86 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnokia
I too own the Sony VTX-D800U and live in an excellent reception area. The transmitter is in line of sight of my bedroom window as a dot on the horizon and I am using a simple internal loop aerial to obtain my digital signal. When standing 10 feet away from my 14" portable Sony TV the digital picture beats the pants off its analogue equivalent. However, six inches from the screen the analogue signal displays sharp detail that appears slightly soft under digital.
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#87 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5
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I'd like to ask a few newbie questions about the Sony HXD-710/910. Along with others on this thread it seems, I was holding out for the HX900/1000 but these seem to have been discontinued. So, now I'm holding out for the HXD710/910 (hope nothing else comes along!!).
The questions I have are: - If the HXD710/910 have digital tuners, can I also hook them up to a Sky/Cable decoder and then record either Freeview channels or Sky/Cable channels? Sounds to me like this would need an analogue tuner for the signal from the Sky/Cable STB as well as the digital tuner for Freeview but I might be mistaken. - Earlier on in this thread, there was a discussion about Divide capability. What is Divide?? Sorry about the basic questions and appreciate any help you can provide. Thanks. Harprit. |
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#88 |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hschhatwal
- If the HXD710/910 have digital tuners, can I also hook them up to a Sky/Cable decoder and then record either Freeview channels or Sky/Cable channels? Sounds to me like this would need an analogue tuner for the signal from the Sky/Cable STB as well as the digital tuner for Freeview but I might be mistaken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hschhatwal
- Earlier on in this thread, there was a discussion about Divide capability. What is Divide??
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#89 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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Thanks for the reply on the 'divide' question. For the Sky/Cable issue, forgive me for being dense, but I still don't see how you can get by without an analogue tuner.
Surely the job of the Sky/Cable decoder box is to take an encoded Sky/Cable signal from the satellite dish or cable coax and convert it to an analogue signal so it can go into a standard TV or VCR, right? If that's the case, the signal from the Sky/Cable box that goes into the Sony DVDR would be an analogue signal that needs to be handled by the DVDR. Am I missing something? |
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#90 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 205
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Think about it. How do you plug your Sky/Cable box into your TV? Most people will (have to) use a scart, which does not go through the TV's analogue tuner. A tuner is just one form of source acquistion, a scart socket is another, which has to be converted into something else for the picture to be displayed, recorded, or whatever. This is true for a TV, video, DVDR, etc. Obviously, the destination device has to know how to interpret the signals coming from a source to be able to convert them - think about the different ways a "picture" can be sent down a fully wired scart lead or the fact that a TV's analogue tuner is physically capable of tuning to a UHF channel used for digital broadcasting but the stuff being broadcast isn't recognised as pictures etc. because the TV's hardware doesn't understand the signal or what to do with it.
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#91 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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OK, I think the penny's starting to drop. So, I'd been assuming that the signal down a SCART lead is like a standard RF in/out which has multiple channels multiplexed together and you need a tuner to pick up one of them.
I'm guessing on a SCART, there's just one channel that's been selected on the device it's connected to and the device on the other end can just view this one channel, right? So, this way the DVDR wouldn't need an analogue tuner if it was connected through a SCART lead to the Sky/Cable box. |
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#92 |
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Maidstone
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Lets hope the problems talked about on other threads re RGB/Scart are resolved.
Looks like October should be the time when manufacturers at last bring out the kit the market deserves. Lets see what those in competition with Sony bring out?
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#93 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hschhatwal
OK, I think the penny's starting to drop. So, I'd been assuming that the signal down a SCART lead is like a standard RF in/out which has multiple channels multiplexed together and you need a tuner to pick up one of them.
I'm guessing on a SCART, there's just one channel that's been selected on the device it's connected to and the device on the other end can just view this one channel, right? So, this way the DVDR wouldn't need an analogue tuner if it was connected through a SCART lead to the Sky/Cable box. Don't muddle up channels with data. A scart lead is simply a set of pins/cables which allow data to be transmitted from one device to another. A set of standards determine which pins carry which data and in which format. So for example, many devices these days use three pins dedicated to transmitting RGB (red, green blue) data (plus one or two more for sound) which can be used directly by the receiving equipment to construct a frame. Obviously, what a TV does with the frame data is completely different from what a DVDR will do with it although, as far as you're concerned, the result is the same, ie. you get pictures (and sound) in the end. On the other hand, a "channel" is a notional way of separating different broadcasts - in the analogue world, a single TV channel, eg. BBC1, is broadcast over its own UHF channel (notice the dual use of the word channel!) whereas in the digital world, several TV channels are broadcast over a single UHF channel. What the tuner does, in both cases, is lock onto a signal and convert it into something usable, ie. picture, sound and other data... if it can. |
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#94 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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Yes, that's fine. My first para was supposed to be my understanding before this discussion (ie wrong) and the 2nd being what I understand now (hopefully right). Sounds like we're both on the same page now.
Thanks for your help. |
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#95 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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Ah, I see what you were doing now. Quote:
Originally Posted by hschhatwal
Thanks for your help.
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#96 |
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 14
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Whose EPG - Sony 710/910?
Whose EPG is likely to be used - freeview, 4TV or are we to rely on videoplus?
If videoplus is used does the programme title get added to the record list or just time and date? |
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#97 |
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Join Date: May 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msg
Whose EPG is likely to be used - freeview, 4TV or are we to rely on videoplus?
If videoplus is used does the programme title get added to the record list or just time and date? Programme titles are extracted from teletext. Or is that only relevent to analogue recorders? Any more sneaked info on these upcoming products? Last edited by msg : 22-05-2005 at 22:29. |
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#98 |
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sandy Heath, Beds. UK
Posts: 10,375
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Beware non-DTT models
Prepare for massive confusion, because the non-DTT versions of the 710 and 910 are just being released in Europe.
Notice that the non-DTT versions are prefixed RDR-HX and the ones we are waiting for are RDR-HXD (presumable ‘D’ for digital). |
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#99 |
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 15
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Hx710
Yep, I am the proud owner of a Non Freeview HX 710 purchased from Pixmania. Being in Ireland I can't imagine I will have to worry about Freeview for awhile yet!
What I can say about the 710 is that it has class. The 1.5x fast playback with sound is flawless - believe me you get quite used to using this feature when interested in getting through a boring part of a programme quickly! The fan is audible - but after a day or so this dissolves away and you really only notice that it WAS noisy when you turn it off! Fantastic simple menu and setup. You hardly have to read the manual to get this thing to work. Well impressed. |
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#100 |
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 14
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768 progressive output????
Anyone any idea whether the 710 & 910 digital tuner versions will output 768P (to match native resolution of many LCD Tvs)?
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Maybe for some a better solution would be a separate DVD recorder, but I'm happy to have one box that does the lot!
