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Freeview PVR’s - Sony RDR HXD-710 and RDR HXD-910 (merged)
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fredjm31
16-09-2005
Originally Posted by doverrog:
“I imagine you are referring to Analogue Broadcasts when you say you don't have 16:9 in France. Surely the Digital Terrestial Broadcasts (started in March) are in 16:9?
Also aren't some satellite transmissions (Canal Satellite, TPS, AB1)?”

Analogue Broadcasts are in 4:3 (or "false" 16:9).

I am quite sure that Digital Terrestrial Broadcasts are in 4:3 (or "false" 16:9).

The last time I looked into it (2 years ago), most Satellite Broadcasts were in 4:3 (or "false" 16:9).
Rushmore
17-09-2005
I can record widescreen recordings (archiving from my Sky + box) on my Panasonic DMR-E60 DVD recorder. DVD-RAM automaticaly sets correct ratio 16:9, whereas DVD-R requires my Panasonic television to be manually set to 16:9 and then picture is correct ratio. So panasonic DVD recorders do record a 16:9 picture correctly on DVD-R, but cannot automatically switch ratio on playback.
I hope this helps
nikyzf
17-09-2005
Originally Posted by tomrob:
“
Can someone remind me why we're still sat here waiting for the Sony RDR-HX910 and RDR-HX710 models to come out, when the Panasonic DMREH60D (complete with 200GB HD and Freeview) is already available for £464 ?”

Does the Pan have DV-in or HDMI? I can't remember.
porridge
18-09-2005
I have couple of questions that probably seem very basic to you, dear reader, but I'm so new to this DVD recording I don't yet have one! Hope to get the RDR-HXD710 this week.

So, recordable DVD formats - what's the difference? is the only difference betwen R & RW that RW is re-writeable, or are there other advantages/disadvantages with either one?

Also, what's the difference between + and - ?

Finally, any other basics I should know?

Answers in words of one syllabul, please!!
tomrob
19-09-2005
Hello Porridge. I don't know a huge amount more than you, but for what it's worth, here's the result of my investigations into your questions on Google:

The "R" format disks are cheaper to buy and a little more widely compatible on on standalone DVD players than the "RW" disks. Otherwise as you say the only difference is that you can't erase and re-use the "R" disks.

As for the difference between + and - .... there are apparently three competing DVD Recording standards:
(1) DVD-R and DVD-RW (the formats with a "-" in the name) and
(2) DVD+R and DVD+RW (the formats with a "+" in the name) have similiar features. Both are compatible with many standalone DVD Players and most (read-only) computer DVD drives
(3) DVD-RAM has much less compatibility but better recording features.

(1) The formats with a "-" in the name were originally incompatible with standalone DVD players, but compatibility was added to the format later. Confusingly for us beginners, there are two different ways you can record on these disks: so-called "Video" mode and "VR" mode. "VR" mode gives you better editing flexibility after recording - but the disks are then less compatible with standalone players.
*DVD-R is non-rewriteable & compatible with 93% of DVD Players.
*DVD-RW is rewriteable & compatible with 80% of DVD Players
These formats are supported by DVDForum (http://www.dvdforum.org)

(2) The formats with a "+" in the name were designed from the start to be compatible with ordinary DVD players and computer drives.
* DVD+R is non-rewritable and compatible with 89% of DVD Players
* DVD+RW is rewritable and compatible with 79% of DVD Players.
Because there are no confusing recording modes, you don't have make trade-offs between compatibility and flexibility, according to its backers, the DVD+RW Alliance. http://www.dvdrw.com

(3) DVD-RAM
* DVD-RAM has the best recording features but it is not compatible with standalone DVD Players. Think more it as a removable hard disk.
This format is also supported by DVDForum.


Finding something on Google definitely doesn't make it true, but that was the best I could find. Perhaps other better qualified people will be able to improve on it ?
mrnab
19-09-2005
Hi everyone.

JUst wanted to try and clarify something as it wasn't clear in the What Video review; not sure if anyone knows this but when they say you cannot record widescreen onto DVD+r and +RW, does that include DUAL LAYER DVD+R? I.e. could you record widescreen onto DVD+R DL?

If not then that's a REAL bummer....did someone mention that there's a rdr hxd 1010 on it's way sometime too? If so, maybe this will be corrected in that model...if you pay +£200!!

So just as you thought it was here, it seems the seacrh for the perfect digital recorder continues....
mrnab
19-09-2005
Hi everyone.

JUst wanted to try and clarify something as it wasn't clear in the What Video review; not sure if anyone knows this but when they say you cannot record widescreen onto DVD+r and +RW, does that include DUAL LAYER DVD+R? I.e. could you record widescreen onto DVD+R DL?

If not then that's a REAL bummer....did someone mention that there's a rdr hxd 1010 on it's way sometime too? If so, maybe this will be corrected in that model...if you pay +£200!!

So just as you thought it was here, it seems the search for the perfect digital recorder continues....
HelenS2
19-09-2005
Originally Posted by tomrob:
“Hello Porridge. I don't know a huge amount more than you, but for what it's worth, here's the result of my investigations into your questions on Google:

The "R" format disks are cheaper to buy and a little more widely compatible on on standalone DVD players than the "RW" disks. Otherwise as you say the only difference is that you can't erase and re-use the "R" disks.

As for the difference between + and - .... there are apparently three competing DVD Recording standards:
(1) DVD-R and DVD-RW (the formats with a "-" in the name) and
(2) DVD+R and DVD+RW (the formats with a "+" in the name) have similiar features. Both are compatible with many standalone DVD Players and most (read-only) computer DVD drives
(3) DVD-RAM has much less compatibility but better recording features.

(1) The formats with a "-" in the name were originally incompatible with standalone DVD players, but compatibility was added to the format later. Confusingly for us beginners, there are two different ways you can record on these disks: so-called "Video" mode and "VR" mode. "VR" mode gives you better editing flexibility after recording - but the disks are then less compatible with standalone players.
*DVD-R is non-rewriteable & compatible with 93% of DVD Players.
*DVD-RW is rewriteable & compatible with 80% of DVD Players
These formats are supported by DVDForum (http://www.dvdforum.org)

(2) The formats with a "+" in the name were designed from the start to be compatible with ordinary DVD players and computer drives.
* DVD+R is non-rewritable and compatible with 89% of DVD Players
* DVD+RW is rewritable and compatible with 79% of DVD Players.
Because there are no confusing recording modes, you don't have make trade-offs between compatibility and flexibility, according to its backers, the DVD+RW Alliance. http://www.dvdrw.com

(3) DVD-RAM
* DVD-RAM has the best recording features but it is not compatible with standalone DVD Players. Think more it as a removable hard disk.
This format is also supported by DVDForum.


Finding something on Google definitely doesn't make it true, but that was the best I could find. Perhaps other better qualified people will be able to improve on it ?”

I'd just like to add that DVD-RAM is compatible with the players made by any manufacturer that supports the format, such as Panasonic (other makers with DVD recorders that can use DVD-RAM are JVC, Toshiba, LG, Hitachi, so presumably some of their players can use it too...). DVD-RAM is said to be able to stand being rewritten 100,000 times, whereas the figure is given as 1,000 times for DVD-RW and DVD+RW. DVD-RAM discs come as either bare discs which look similar to the other formats, or in a cartridge for bullet-proof handling. The cartridge can be removed as most players can't take it, but Panasonic recorders can accept it (sorry for any facts I'm missing here about other manufacturers - I only have a Panasonic!). Double-sided DVD-RAM discs are also available, with double the capacity but these need to be manually turned over to use each side!
Bunter1815
19-09-2005
Picked up a 710 on Saturday, so far so good. I've bought this machine as a replacement for my VHS and it's the first DVD player I have owned. I have only had limited use of the machine so far here...

Picking titles off the EPG for recording is nice and straightforward. EPG is easy to navigate and can hide and sort channels as you want. Haven't used the DVD R stage yet, give it a few months and I will have a complete set of Nighty Night 2 or The Long Way round to burn. Chase recording play and live TV pause all work fine.

I was a bit disappointed with the audio quality off a couple of music DVDs. I've hooked up the RCA out to my hi-fi as I had done with my old VHS and it does not sound nearly as crisp as the CD player in my hi-fi (Linn Classik). Maybe there are better ways to connect them together, as I said I am new to DVD.

In answer to a couple of questions back up the thread some....

I think the 710 does have HDMI connection but I will check it.
I haven't tried recording from the built in tuner and a second source at the same time.
Haven't tried recording to DVD(+/-) yet so can't comment on the widescreen issue.

One question I've got for any other new owners is can the machine squirt its signal down the FM or can it only broadcast via SCART?

Bill
porridge
19-09-2005
To Bunter1815, HelenS2 and Tomrob,

Thanks loads for all the advise, it has really helped.

I've just got the call I was waiting for from the Sony Centre, so like a kid with a new toy I'm just off up town to pick it up!

I'll be cut off from civilisation for a day or two...
nikyzf
19-09-2005
Originally Posted by Bunter1815:
“Picked up a 710 on Saturday, so far so good. I've bought this machine as a replacement for my VHS and it's the first DVD player I have owned. I have only had limited use of the machine so far here...

Picking titles off the EPG for recording is nice and straightforward. EPG is easy to navigate and can hide and sort channels as you want. Haven't used the DVD R stage yet, give it a few months and I will have a complete set of Nighty Night 2 or The Long Way round to burn. Chase recording play and live TV pause all work fine.

I was a bit disappointed with the audio quality off a couple of music DVDs. I've hooked up the RCA out to my hi-fi as I had done with my old VHS and it does not sound nearly as crisp as the CD player in my hi-fi (Linn Classik). Maybe there are better ways to connect them together, as I said I am new to DVD.

In answer to a couple of questions back up the thread some....

I think the 710 does have HDMI connection but I will check it.
I haven't tried recording from the built in tuner and a second source at the same time.
Haven't tried recording to DVD(+/-) yet so can't comment on the widescreen issue.

One question I've got for any other new owners is can the machine squirt its signal down the FM or can it only broadcast via SCART?

Bill”

Even quite expensive DVD *players* are mediocre CD players compared with "proper" hi-fi (although the Arcam DV79 is not bad), so perhaps we can't expect too much from these multi-function AV boxes. However, I assume we could get better sound if if we could get audio out via digital and leave the analogue conversion to a hi-fi DAC. Does the 710 have digital audio out, either Toslink or co-ax?

I'd really like to know if the 710 has HDMI, as that is the only reason for me hanging on for the 910.

The 710 *does* have DV-in (i.Link) , doesn't it?
porridge
19-09-2005
Originally Posted by nikyzf:
“Even quite expensive DVD *players* are mediocre CD players compared with "proper" hi-fi (although the Arcam DV79 is not bad), so perhaps we can't expect too much from these multi-function AV boxes. However, I assume we could get better sound if if we could get audio out via digital and leave the analogue conversion to a hi-fi DAC. Does the 710 have digital audio out, either Toslink or co-ax?

I'd really like to know if the 710 has HDMI, as that is the only reason for me hanging on for the 910.

The 710 *does* have DV-in (i.Link) , doesn't it?”

710 now sitting comfortably in my living room. Only teething problem is a twitchy picture, which might be down to my ao-ax lead as it's now the same on my telly - I'll check this out tomorrow.

It does not have HDMI, it does have i.Link and digital out.

EPG is good and easy to use, I can see chasing play-back will be useful; ability to erase bits of a recording, choose thumbnails, search visually by first frame of a chapter - it's a good bit of kit. Still loads of reading to do before I've got it completely sussed, but it is to my old VHS what this laptop is to the abacus! Oh, and my girlfriend says it "looks nice", too
tomrob
20-09-2005
Blimey - how exciting. So the Holy Grail has finally arrived! an actual living breathing Sony Freeview HDD/DVD recorder after all this time!

Bill (Bunter) - where did you get yours from ? Porridge, was yours from the Sony Centre in Upper Level, Northampton? And most importantly of all - how much did it cost ? Can't get any definitive answers on google yet, the machine's too new...
porridge
20-09-2005
Originally Posted by tomrob:
“Blimey - how exciting. So the Holy Grail has finally arrived! an actual living breathing Sony Freeview HDD/DVD recorder after all this time!

Bill (Bunter) - where did you get yours from ? Porridge, was yours from the Sony Centre in Upper Level, Northampton? And most importantly of all - how much did it cost ? Can't get any definitive answers on google yet, the machine's too new...”

Yes, that's where I got it. It was £499. Bit cheaper on a couple of sites on the net, but don't know about delivery, etc. I did pre-order and pay for mine about a month ago, and hassled them weekly (I think they were glad to see the back of me and even gave me a pack of DVDs to shut me up!)

Just tried watching a DVD while reecording and it told me I can't - I thought it allowed this. I'll check the instructions again, maybe I dreamt it :sleep:
planetnokia
20-09-2005
Originally Posted by porridge:
“Yes, that's where I got it. It was £499. Bit cheaper on a couple of sites on the net, but don't know about delivery, etc. I did pre-order and pay for mine about a month ago, and hassled them weekly (I think they were glad to see the back of me and even gave me a pack of DVDs to shut me up!)

Just tried watching a DVD while reecording and it told me I can't - I thought it allowed this. I'll check the instructions again, maybe I dreamt it :sleep:”

Sorry, but I am totally confused! Have you got:

(a) Sony RDR-HX710 (Analogue Tuner)

(b) Sony RDR-HXD710 (Digital Tuner)

or does it have a totally different model number?
nikyzf
20-09-2005
Originally Posted by planetnokia:
“Sorry, but I am totally confused! Have you got:

(a) Sony RDR-HX710 (Analogue Tuner)

(b) Sony RDR-HXD710 (Digital Tuner)

or does it have a totally different model number?”

The HX710 is not a UK model; it is the one that Pixmania sells. It does not have Freeview (no "D").

The HXD710 is the UK version with Freeview. This is the one my fellow Northamptonian has. I suspect Blasons on the Welly Road would be cheaper than the Sony centre.

Shame about the lack of HDMI...
nikyzf
20-09-2005
http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/p...roduct_ID/2284

Free delivery. Don't know about stock levels.
Bunter1815
20-09-2005
Originally Posted by tomrob:
“Blimey - how exciting. So the Holy Grail has finally arrived! an actual living breathing Sony Freeview HDD/DVD recorder after all this time!

Bill (Bunter) - where did you get yours from ? Porridge, was yours from the Sony Centre in Upper Level, Northampton? And most importantly of all - how much did it cost ? Can't get any definitive answers on google yet, the machine's too new...”

Sony Centre in Salisbury, and it was 499 ukp. And I was wrong about the 710 having HDMI connector - it does not (I remembered seeing it in the manual but the manual is a common one for the 710 and 910).

Bill
Bunter1815
20-09-2005
Originally Posted by porridge:
“Yes, that's where I got it. It was £499. Bit cheaper on a couple of sites on the net, but don't know about delivery, etc. I did pre-order and pay for mine about a month ago, and hassled them weekly (I think they were glad to see the back of me and even gave me a pack of DVDs to shut me up!)

Just tried watching a DVD while reecording and it told me I can't - I thought it allowed this. I'll check the instructions again, maybe I dreamt it :sleep:”

It is definitely possible to record onto the HDD and simultaneously watch a prerecorded DVD.

Bill
planetnokia
20-09-2005
Originally Posted by nikyzf:
“The HX710 is not a UK model; it is the one that Pixmania sells. It does not have Freeview (no "D").

The HXD710 is the UK version with Freeview. This is the one my fellow Northamptonian has. I suspect Blasons on the Welly Road would be cheaper than the Sony centre.

Shame about the lack of HDMI...”

I know the difference between the 710 and the D710 (I was one of the first to post on DS about the D710 and D910). What was confusing me was the fact that porridge seemed to be suggesting that he had the D710. Of course, I suspected that he had a grey import.
nikyzf
20-09-2005
Originally Posted by planetnokia:
“I know the difference between the 710 and the D710 (I was one of the first to post on DS about the D710 and D910). What was confusing me was the fact that porridge seemed to be suggesting that he had the D710. Of course, I suspected that he had a grey import.”

I thought that Porridge *does* have the D710, i.e. the UK model, bought from the Sony Centre?
Robin Armitage
20-09-2005
Has anybody got a PDF of the RDRHXD710 manual?
planetnokia
20-09-2005
Originally Posted by nikyzf:
“I thought that Porridge *does* have the D710, i.e. the UK model, bought from the Sony Centre?”

I don't think that porridge does have the long awaited RDR-HXD710 with its Freeview Tuner. Mind you his posts read like he does have one. Are Sony Centres allowed to sell grey imports?
nikyzf
20-09-2005
Originally Posted by planetnokia:
“I don't think that porridge does have the long awaited RDR-HXD710 with its Freeview Tuner. Mind you his posts read like he does have one. Are Sony Centres allowed to sell grey imports?”

Everything I've read from him suggests he has a UK D710 from the Northampton Sony Centre, e.g.
----
To Bunter1815, HelenS2 and Tomrob,

Thanks loads for all the advise, it has really helped.

I've just got the call I was waiting for from the Sony Centre, so like a kid with a new toy I'm just off up town to pick it up!

I'll be cut off from civilisation for a day or two...
----
porridge
21-09-2005
Originally Posted by planetnokia:
“I don't think that porridge does have the long awaited RDR-HXD710 with its Freeview Tuner. Mind you his posts read like he does have one. Are Sony Centres allowed to sell grey imports?”

Just to confirm to planetnokia and anyone else who can't read properly, the Sony RDR-HXD710 was launched by Sony UK last Friday, 16 September. One of our fellow posters (bunter) picked his up on Saturday, mine came into stock at my Sony Centre (where I had it ordered and paid for since mid-August) on Monday.

Therefore, I do have the genuine article. Not an import. Along with its Freeviw tuner.

Thank you.
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