I'm so sorry I'm late! I completely forgot, I've been tied up with DSA. Here is the link to the fifth episode of The Apprentice Series 1, Art With A Capital F:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L3rCoGIz4E

Could someone else (Jack or hownowbrowncow) kick off the discussion at nine? I'm so tied up right now...

Enjoy!

Actually I've been really busy today so haven't watched the episode. If rather watch it tomorrow and comment then if possible, so if someone else wants to kick off the discussion, that'd be great!

Can you find someone to do it? I just don't have time, I'm really busy right at this second.

The thing is I'm quite busy as well. Is there anyone reading this who wants to volunteer to kick off the discussion?

Shall we just come back to this tomorrow instead? I don't think much will happen tonight.

I watched it
But I'll wait 'til tomorrow...

Okay, shall we start it tonight? Again, I'm not going to be able to open the discussion because of DSA commitments, but I've left more time for someone else to start it for me.

I should be able to kick it off again at 9 today if you're too busy?

Thanks I'll be able to take part later, but I can't kick it off as the boardroom is at nine.

As a matter of fact, I think you're better at kicking these off anyway. You have a lot of good prompts for things to discuss.

Good evening everyone!

The fifth person to get fired was

Spoiler

Matthew

There is an argument to be made that they weren't responsible for the failure of the task. Was the right decision made?

Sebastian and Rachel became PMs for the first times. Both have been background candidates so far, so how do you feel they performed in a leadership role?

Do you think that any other candidates were lucky to survive this week?

First Forte secured their first win of the series. Was this victory deserved or do you feel as though Impact could have won had a few things gone differently? Did any candidates impress or disappoint you?

Who are your favourite and least favourite candidates after five tasks?

This Art task has some interesting quirks that weren't present in future Art tasks. Do you think elements such as only picking one artist, having the candidates pitch for the artists and using celebrities to attract attention worked in this task?

As ever, these are just starting points for the discussion. If there are other elements of the episode you want to discuss, please post! Anyone is welcome to join in, even if you haven't seen the episode in the last couple of days and just want to add something!

Matthew's firing is an interesting one. Across the whole process so far, he was the weakest on the team undoubtedly and deserved to go. Having said that, I don't think he should have been in the boardroom. I think Rachel should have brought Paul and Saira in - Paul because he didn't sell very much, and Saira because she screwed up the Rob and Nicky Carter thing. However, I can't blame Rachel for not bringing in Paul and Saira, because they'd been so strong up until that point that Rachel may have felt that she would be in danger if she brought them back

I think Rachel did really well in this one. Even though they lost, I thought she was a good PM. She seemed to be the only one on the team who actually knew about the art world, but at the same time she listened to her team's opinions. I think had Rachel gone to see Rob and Nicky Carter, they might well have won that task.

On the other hand, I think Sebastian was lucky. It seemed that James and Miriam won that task more than he did.

The one thing that really surprised me on the rewatch is how much more I rate Rachel. She is articulate, intelligent, considerate and, on the basis of this task, a good manager. She made only one bad decision for me and that was not going with Johnny Clarke's high priced works once they lost the Light Pictures. Admittedly, this pretty well doomed Impact before the galleries opened, but since she managed everyone well, took on opinions and once again, in my opinion, she was very good in the boardroom, I think she deserved to stay.

But, yikes, Paul was lucky. I forgot just how bad a task this was for him. He took in his own opinions when looking at the art, was rude to virtually every vendor they looked at, was terrible at getting people to come to the gallery, made the Big Issue salesman error and didn't really sell well in the gallery, likening the art to cars. On top of this, he lost his temper in the boardroom over something ridiculous Saira said and as he didn't say who should be fired, I think he was very close to the exit door. Not only this, but he was seen being disparaging towards his teammates, describing Rachel as Hitler and claiming they only lost the task because a woman was in charge. It could hardly have been a worse edit.
I didn't have a major issue with him staying as he was previously one of the top performers and had done pretty well in almost all of the other tasks. I found how he dodged the PM role at the start very interesting.

As for Saira, its an interesting one. The first half of the task was horrific for her, alienating the artists, significantly Rob and Nicky Carter (Though Raj didn't help by acting like he didn't care, such as when he refused to say his favourite colour) and then that pitch to the Carters was one of the most cringy things I've ever seen! "We've got a blue, an orange, two greens and an aquamarine". Saying to Nicky "Are you the best person to talk too?" was just awful.
On the other hand, she was an excellent saleswoman again and I'm not aggrieved she wasn't in the boardroom as she once again sold excellently and I thought she was very charming in the gallery, something that couldn't be said for Paul. I think Raj is skating by at the minute though.

Sebastian is a difficult one as we didn't see him do much, but he got the critical decisions right - moving James to First Forte, splitting the teams up immediately (Impact saw the first couple of artists together), choosing Rob and Nicky Carter and getting James to pitch to them. I agree that James in particular (This was definitely one of his best tasks) and Miriam were more responsible for the win.

I don't disagree with the decision. By Matthew's own admission, he had been a dead man walking for five weeks and though he didn't really cause the team to fail, he didn't sell much and acted unprofessionally with the invitations debacle, so I think he definitely deserved to go, especially if the whole process is taken into account. Incidently, I thought Rachel was very clever in her reasoning for bringing Matthew in, when I suspect it was more to do with Sir Alan being keen to get rid of him.

I rather liked Lucy Bennets work - my favourite out of the three main artists featured. I'm sure on later iterations of the art task its been won by the lower priced pieces so I'm not sure that getting the Carters won the task on its own - First Forte had a mammoth task to shift them that I doubt Impact could've done, high ticket items have rarely shifted on the night over the series.
Matthew had been a fish out of water so I agree Lord Suralun was just itching to get shot of him. Agreed that Rachel did really well this week - makes next weeks performance all the more shocking But then again Paul was dreadful tonight whilst James had a very poor showing on the treasure hunt.

I think Rachel was in a bit of an awkward position with regards to who she was going to bring back. While Saira was clearly at fault for driving away the Carters, it looked like she actually sold the most on the team (though they didn't give exact sales figures), which would almost certainly have been enough to save her from being fired.

As for Matthew, while I actually don't think he was that bad of a candidate overall, certainly not to the extent of the previous four firees, he was never really very impressive either, and just couldn't justify being kept over Rachel (who, aside from letting herself get railroaded into their artist choice, seemed a pretty solid leader) and Paul (who had done well in the previous four tasks).

I really like Rachel. I think she's one of the more underrated candidates. I think because she didn't come to the forefront a huge amount, people remember her more for what she was fired for and forget her performance in the tasks leading up to that. She was a strong leader on this task, and she seemed to know quite a lot about the art world. I also think she made the decision to go against Johnny Clarke for the right reasons - even if he was their best bet, it wasn't a good idea to have an artist that two members of the team wouldn't be able to sell. I wonder how they'd have faired if she had gone to see Rob and Nicky Carter instead of Saira?

One thing that interests me the most is that at the start of Episode 3, before they know that the teams will be mixed and the girls are trying to work out how to avoid losing more team members, Saira says to Miranda, 'The dynamics of the group are four very loud-mouthed girls'. There were actually five girls left at that point, so I always wonder who Saira wasn't including. I tend to think that it was Rachel who escaped that label, as in the first two tasks she seems a lot less loud and argumentative than the rest of the group. She just focusses on quietly getting things done.

I completely agree with you about Paul. If people thought Saira's attitude to Rob and Nicky Carter was bad, it was nothing to how Paul behaved with some of the artists. Interestingly enough, on a YouTube comment someone said that they liked it that Paul offered a ticket to the Big Issue seller, as the Big Issue seller wouldn't get many invitations to get free champagne and nibbles. I confess that that had not occurred to me and it is nice that he did that, but he should have informed the rest of the team so Saira didn't make the mistake of trying to sell him art! But yes - as I said in Week 1, he was the most impressive candidate at the start, and he never managed to get there again.


I would say that Saira was one of those responsible for the win - she was a good saleswoman, but she would have sold a lot of Rob and Nicky Carter's work as well, and she was a key reason why they didn't get them. I don't really blame her cringeworthy phone pitch, as I'm pretty sure Rob and Nicky had already made up their minds by that point, but Saira was the one who made the first impression. She missed what James and Miriam got - that you have to impress the artist first and foremost, and not get down to pricing and things until you've done that. It's interesting that when they redid this task in Series 3, the message was completely the opposite; Natalie and Katie's manner towards Elisabeth Hoff was criticised, and Adam's was praised. There needs to be a good balance of both - obviously you have to know all the technicalities, but if you don't impress the artist, it's a waste of time because you won't get their work to sell. In the Series 3 episode, it's easy to forget that Kristina's team actually wanted Elisabeth Hoff's lip images as well, but they didn't get them because Elisabeth was more impressed with the way Natalie and Katie went in. Obviously her work was the wrong choice, so it was a blessing in disguise for Kristina's team - but I give Natalie and Katie credit for that. I think they got unfair criticism for it.

Just watched this episode and Matthew was the only choice to be fired, if looked at as a series to date.

Think Rachel was obviously going to bring Matthew back, deservedly, but I think she choose Paul based on what was said in the board room by Sir Alan.
She should have bought Raj or Saira back. Raj because he adds nothing to the team and Saira because she lost the team the artist they wanted. She really is all bluster, has too much to say about everything and is pretty thick. The artist said she would allow 15% discount, her reply "give me a final price"
She may have sold well but getting the right artist was fundamental to this task.

As I said, the Matthew thing is an awkward one because across the series, he was undoubtedly the weakest on this team; but on this task, I think that Paul and Saira should have been in the boardroom.

I agree with you about Saira on this task. I really like Saira, but she was the reason why they didn't get the artist. I don't agree on the rest of it though. I think she is generally a very strong player.