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Scottish Fitba Thread (Part 22)


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Old 12-11-2016, 12:43
JCR
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And what players do Scotland being in? Some of the U21s who have lost their last 5 games without scoring a goal?
Jai Quitongo for Scotland!

I don't think last night was Strachan's fault, he clearly had a plan that could have worked, though quite why he's playing Hanley when he hasn't had a first team game for his club this season is anyones guess.

I'm not sure the SFA would want to change manager at this point, because who is gonna want to manage Scotland through another 6 lame duck WC 2018 qualifers? (And in all likelyhood, another humping by England.) Probably be easier just to wait till next October & start again.
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Old 12-11-2016, 13:07
John_Adam1
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I personally think bringing back Alex McLeish would be a good option under the circumstances. His defensive style of play would probably be Scotland's best bet with the players they currently have available to choose from.
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Old 12-11-2016, 13:35
David_Flett1
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Sorry we were terrible England are very average yet they never broke sweat against us.

I always felt campaign would be over after this, we need to gut the squad for the rest of the meaningless qualifiers but we won't .
It may be controversial and I only watched the highlights I just couldn't bring myself to watch the full game, the first Scotland v England game I have not watched in 40 years but had Northern Ireland played England last night and had the same chances as Scotland created then I think they would have beat England. From what little I saw England created fewer chances but were clinical, their defence however was poor and from what I have read their general play was poor too.

As for gutting the squad, I haven't been impressed with any others that may be considered. The Scottish game doesn't have the money to improve facilities, coaching and the overall structure of the game but Scotland never had much money before the Premier League either. Who coached Baxter, Lennox, Gilzean, White, Johnstone, Law? I listened to Graham Souness and he even said much the same about his childhood and that of Dalglish, Gemmil, Hansen etc. The difference is that kids had very little else to do and football was one of the few things they could afford to do, a couple of jumpers and a ball. It really is incredible looking back for such a small nation how many world class players we did produce. Yes they failed at major tournaments but we generally failed mentally or even complacency. In 1978 you beat the World Cup finalists but are 1-0 up miss a penalty and then lose the game against Peru and draw against Iran. Mind you England have only won 5 knockout games at tournaments since 1966 so not really a great record either.

The problem today is the kids have many other interests, there isn't the same appeal about kicking a ball around when you can play the game on an x-box/playstation. For every fan who complains about the poor standard of our football. How many see their own kids indoors, doing other things other than playing football?

I'm not saying better facilities and better coaching wouldn't help but you need kids to be hungry to play the game. Look south of the border with the billions pumped into the game, the academies, the coaching. Can anyone really say that the players England are producing are any better than the previous generation of greats? England were just the same as Scotland they had their Charlton's, Greavsies, Bell's, Moore's. How many of this current England squad would get in World Cup squad of 25? They may be a cut above Scotland but they are not a cut above much else.
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Old 12-11-2016, 13:42
Mark F
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Have to say it had that FA Cup type feel of an average Premier league side just showing that little bit of quality on occasions against a spirited but limited lower league team...

I actually think you had the better chances and posed some threat but the final ball let you down.

Of course allowing us to score 3 headers (2 from guys hardly know for it) suggests bad defensive organisation.

Charlie Adam was quite critical of the squad and manager - was that just sour grapes or should he be in the squad for example?

Like down here its easy to say well "he should be in the squad/team" but how much improvement would there be.
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Old 12-11-2016, 14:04
CELT1987
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Have to say it had that FA Cup type feel of an average Premier league side just showing that little bit of quality on occasions against a spirited but limited lower league team...

I actually think you had the better chances and posed some threat but the final ball let you down.

Of course allowing us to score 3 headers (2 from guys hardly know for it) suggests bad defensive organisation.

Charlie Adam was quite critical of the squad and manager - was that just sour grapes or should he be in the squad for example?

Like down here its easy to say well "he should be in the squad/team" but how much improvement would there be.
Adam is a rank player. He'd make no difference to the squad. Brown shouldn't have bothered to come back. Whoever is the manager will have the same players. It's a vicious circle and won't change until Scotland can produce better footballers.
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Old 12-11-2016, 15:03
TheSloth
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Adam is a rank player. He'd make no difference to the squad. Brown shouldn't have bothered to come back. Whoever is the manager will have the same players. It's a vicious circle and won't change until Scotland can produce better footballers.
I agree with all of that apart from Adam being rank. He's technically better than many in the squad - just doesn't have the engine for the highest level. He would've have been an asset for set pieces and getting in England's faces (until he ran out of legs).

It would be interesting to know how many young Scots play football outside of school these days compared to, say, 50 years ago. The talent pool appears to have decreased markedly and for a small population the availability of alternative entertainment could be the eroding factor. Compare to smaller countries like Uruguay where I'm assuming the alternatives aren't as accessible financially so football is still massive for kids - they probably have more places to play also.
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Old 12-11-2016, 15:13
CELT1987
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I agree with all of that apart from Adam being rank. He's technically better than many in the squad - just doesn't have the engine for the highest level. He would've have been an asset for set pieces and getting in England's faces (until he ran out of legs).

It would be interesting to know how many young Scots play football outside of school these days compared to, say, 50 years ago. The talent pool appears to have decreased markedly and for a small population the availability of alternative entertainment could be the eroding factor. Compare to smaller countries like Uruguay where I'm assuming the alternatives aren't as accessible financially so football is still massive for kids - they probably have more places to play also.
Trouble is that kids nowadays have so many distractions. Facebook,Twitter, PS4 and Xbox. Too many don't want to play football but use those things instead.

The days of seeking kids playing football outside are rare.
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Old 12-11-2016, 20:08
timboy
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Jai Quitongo for Scotland!
May as well call up Karamoko Dembele at the same time.
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Old 13-11-2016, 18:15
glasgow67
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To me, the obvious question is whether another manager could get more out of the players we have available. Other countries who don't have a ton of great players have done quite well, such as NI, ROI, Iceland.
Those teams do have more solid foundations though. NI have Brunt, Hughes, Evans and MacAuley and up till more recently Baird who were all reiable EPL calibre defenders which gave them a solid base to work from.

Scotland have/had Hutton, Paterson, Martin, Hanley, Greer and Berra all awful players who occasionally play average which is the best they can hope for, not to be liabilities.

Tierney and Robertson are the only quality defenders Scotland have and both are left-backs but going forward they actually do have quite decent players but the attacking players have to do too much worrying about defending and not getting skelped that they are hampered from doing anything in attack.

Snodgrass, Forrest, Ritchie, Burke, Naismith, Anya, Maloney, McCormack, Griffiths and Fletcher aren't that bad an attacking options, they are much better than what NI have but NI can afford to be solid at the back and allow their players the chance to sit and try and sneak results. Scotland are too poor at the back that their midfield and forward have to worry about defending all the time that they can't attack freely.
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Old 14-11-2016, 21:10
glasgow67
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The press will have to rethink their valuations of Dembele soon. Best player on the pitch for France V England U21s here, good first goal and freekick for the 2nd. His touches and general play have been a class above.

£50million price tag now!
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Old 15-11-2016, 20:54
timboy
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The press will have to rethink their valuations of Dembele soon. Best player on the pitch for France V England U21s here, good first goal and freekick for the 2nd. His touches and general play have been a class above.

£50million price tag now!
That must have been a hell of a hangover you had this morning.

He'd have to be banging in the goals for the French full team to be worth north of £25m.

Sadly I don't him being at Celtic too long. He is scoring goals in all competitions and in January I can see a huge, in Scottish terms, bid coming in for him. We are in the position where thanks to the CL money we don't have to sell but if make around £35m from the CL and get a huge fee for Dembele that is Celtic able to make huge investment in the squad.

Exciting and a bit worrying at the same time.
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Old 16-11-2016, 00:06
detroitcity
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That must have been a hell of a hangover you had this morning.

He'd have to be banging in the goals for the French full team to be worth north of £25m.

Sadly I don't him being at Celtic too long. He is scoring goals in all competitions and in January I can see a huge, in Scottish terms, bid coming in for him. We are in the position where thanks to the CL money we don't have to sell but if make around £35m from the CL and get a huge fee for Dembele that is Celtic able to make huge investment in the squad.

Exciting and a bit worrying at the same time.
I reckon he'll go for around £20 million, maybe a bit less up front with some add on's.

Think he'll be off in January?
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Old 16-11-2016, 00:18
timboy
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I reckon he'll go for around £20 million, maybe a bit less up front with some add on's.

Think he'll be off in January?
I hope we get at least a season out of him but I could see him going in January if the money is right.

The way football is he could have a terrible run of form like Johansen and see his value plummet or he could get a bad injury.
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Old 16-11-2016, 05:25
Jokanovic
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A lot depends on him as an individual. I could see someone like PSG coming in for him but would he get the game time he needs. Don't think it's worth his while leaving till the Summer, at least pick up your medals first. Perhaps he should go to somewhere like Everton. Play at a higher level with good game time. Take it a step at a time.
As for 50 million, well that's DS gold
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Old 16-11-2016, 06:51
CELT1987
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We might get a bid of £20m but we get to keep him on loan for two years to improve his development. If he went to a bigger club, he might not get a game.
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Old 16-11-2016, 14:15
timboy
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So it transpires that Celtic actually paid way over the market value for the land at Westholm and the State Aid freaks cost the council £300k in their spurious claims.
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Old 16-11-2016, 22:28
glasgow67
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See the Waghorn video lol, he comes out a chippy and a schoolboy calls him shite, so he follows the boy saying 'mon say it to my face' walks up to the schoolboy who says "your shite" to his face then Waghorn walks away lol only in Scottish football would you 1. Get a player coming out a chippy and 2. Squaring up to someone whos probably 14 or 15 in school uniform.
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Old 16-11-2016, 23:01
timboy
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See the Waghorn video lol, he comes out a chippy and a schoolboy calls him shite, so he follows the boy saying 'mon say it to my face' walks up to the schoolboy who says "your shite" to his face then Waghorn walks away lol only in Scottish football would you 1. Get a player coming out a chippy and 2. Squaring up to someone whos probably 14 or 15 in school uniform.
Waghorn Pen has made himself look a bit of a pillock chasing after and confronting a school kid while the school kid keeps munching on his lunch and doesn't give a ....
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Old 17-11-2016, 05:02
carnoch04
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Trouble is that kids nowadays have so many distractions. Facebook,Twitter, PS4 and Xbox. Too many don't want to play football but use those things instead.

The days of seeking kids playing football outside are rare.
Don't they have these distractions in Iceland, Northern Ireland, Eire and Wales too?
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Old 17-11-2016, 10:36
TommyNooka
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See the Waghorn video lol, he comes out a chippy and a schoolboy calls him shite, so he follows the boy saying 'mon say it to my face' walks up to the schoolboy who says "your shite" to his face then Waghorn walks away lol only in Scottish football would you 1. Get a player coming out a chippy and 2. Squaring up to someone whos probably 14 or 15 in school uniform.
Haha, that's my local chippy and I've seen him come and sit in with his family before, didn't think much of it at the time, even footballers can eat at Scotlands greatest chippy now and again. But wtf is he doing going to a chippy for his lunch? He must be in there all the time, it is a brilliant chippy but even I don't eat there that often.
And TBF to Waghorn, those St Ninians school weans are pretentious smart arses!
My wee girl will be going to Woodfarm instead.
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Old 17-11-2016, 15:44
timboy
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Don't they have these distractions in Iceland, Northern Ireland, Eire and Wales too?
They do, I don't think that they have deep fried Mars Bars and Pizza Crunches though.

Youth coaching in Scotland, in the main, isn't very good and some facilities are absolutely dire.

And TBF to Waghorn, those St Ninians school weans are pretentious smart arses!
I think you've described a lot of school kids in front of their pals these days. They know that they can do or say what they want with very little comeback.

Waghorn is the adult in that situation and, as much as I can imagine having a kid telling you to your face that "you're shite" wouldn't be a nice experience, he shouldn't have risen to the bait.
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Old 17-11-2016, 16:55
glasgow67
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They do, I don't think that they have deep fried Mars Bars and Pizza Crunches though.

Youth coaching in Scotland, in the main, isn't very good and some facilities are absolutely dire.



I think you've described a lot of school kids in front of their pals these days. They know that they can do or say what they want with very little comeback.

Waghorn is the adult in that situation and, as much as I can imagine having a kid telling you to your face that "you're shite" wouldn't be a nice experience, he shouldn't have risen to the bait.
Not just the bad diet in Scotland, I seen yesterday I think it was that Scottish kids are the least active in Europe. Then on top of that Scotland is one of the worst in the world for drug use, alcohol and violence.

So Scottish people for some reason are just lazier, eat more junk food, take more drugs and alcohol and Scotland is also the most violent Developed country in the world so it will probably always be like that. If it was only one or two things that needed to be changed then it could be done but its not. it's everything so nothing can really be done as it's just the way it is, Scottish people enjoy that kind of lifestyle.

That kind of lifestyle is far worse in cities too, it would be interesting to see how many sportsmen in Scotland come from the cities, especially Glasgow which is probably the worst for everything by a distance, most Scottish sportsmen probably come from richer areas or countryside towns in the middle of nowhere where they are cut off from where most people live were kids only want drink and drugs or to become feared mad neds and later drug dealers themselves.
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Old 17-11-2016, 17:35
timboy
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Barton gets a 1 game ban for his gambling on football.
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Old 17-11-2016, 19:29
bhoy07
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Barton gets a 1 game ban for his gambling on football.
Madness - best and easiest rule to understand and the sfa think it's ok to break.
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Old 17-11-2016, 23:02
timboy
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Madness - best and easiest rule to understand and the sfa think it's ok to break.
Given he is unlikely to ever play in Scotland again, apart from a pre season friendly or if he signs for a team in Wales or the north of Ireland who might qualify for the Irn Bru Cup, hammering him with a lengthy ban to serve when he signs for a club in another country is a bit pointless for me.

I know the SFA went round all the clubs in pre season reminding players of the rules on gambling on football but maybe Barton joined up so late he missed the meeting and nobody told him so he might have used that in mitigation?
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