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Did the Time War Doctor blow up the TARDIS in series 5??


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Old 30-08-2013, 15:24
jpl
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I am speculating here more for the sake of speculating, but I was wondering about the destruction of the TARDIS in series 5

Is it possible that the Doctor himself done it, I mean in the time war did he do something that destroyed the tardis at another point in time, without realising what he had done when he used 'The Moment'.

I have no basis other than thinking no-one would want to destroy the TARDIS given the consequences, well they might not have known the consequences, and who else could be the person behind it that would shock us and who would have the power to do it.

I enjoy discussing speculation hence the post, i'm not claiming it is or is very possible just a thought
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Old 30-08-2013, 17:57
lordOfTime
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Would be a very interesting twist, I like it. Sadly I'm not sure we'll get the answer.
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Old 30-08-2013, 18:10
bennythedip
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I thought it was prisoner zero who blew the tardis up? Confused now.
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Old 30-08-2013, 19:04
TheSilentFez
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No, it was the Silence.
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Old 30-08-2013, 19:54
jpl
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Would be a very interesting twist, I like it. Sadly I'm not sure we'll get the answer.
Moffat has said he will tie up the questions from Matt's Reign, this is believed to be included as it is the biggest

I thought it was prisoner zero who blew the tardis up? Confused now.
No Prisoner zero was just aware of the events I think

No, it was the Silence.
It's yet to be confirmed and never been stated that it was them, the silence tried to kill the doctor to prevent him revealing his name, i doubt they would want to destroy the universe.

Might be them but I think it's some one else
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Old 30-08-2013, 20:20
Sara_Peplow
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Interesting theory supppse it could have been him. Ironic that if it was him he would have nearly killed river. Only other person who could fly the tardis.
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Old 30-08-2013, 21:21
Kapellmeister
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Why would the Silence want to blow up the TARDIS and destroy the entire Universe?
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Old 30-08-2013, 21:26
SilenceWillFall
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Moffat has said he will tie up the questions from Matt's Reign, this is believed to be included as it is the biggest



No Prisoner zero was just aware of the events I think



It's yet to be confirmed and never been stated that it was them, the silence tried to kill the doctor to prevent him revealing his name, i doubt they would want to destroy the universe.

Might be them but I think it's some one else
Didn't Moffat mention that he always assumed it was the Silence who blew up the TARDIS in an interview or something?

Why would the Silence want to blow up the TARDIS and destroy the entire Universe?
I guess they wouldn't have known that it would lead to the universe exploding and they would have blown it up either to kill the Doctor (though that would mean they wrongly assumed he was inside) or just in order for him not to have it and therefore be pretty much harmless stuck on 21st century Earth or something.
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Old 30-08-2013, 21:52
jpl
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He's never confirmed, just stated that the answers will come. it could yet be a silence plan gone wrong, but it seemed bigger than that.
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Old 30-08-2013, 21:53
Pull2Open
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Didn't Moffat mention that he always assumed it was the Silence who blew up the TARDIS in an interview or something?
You mean Steven Moffat, the master of misdirection?
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Old 30-08-2013, 22:20
TheSilentFez
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It's yet to be confirmed and never been stated that it was them, the silence tried to kill the doctor to prevent him revealing his name, i doubt they would want to destroy the universe.

Might be them but I think it's some one else
I always assumed it was the Silence because in The Pandorica Opens, the TARDIS monitor screen cracks and a voice says "Silence will Fall". Then at the end of The Big Bang, the Doctor mentions not knowing who the Silence are and not knowing who blew up the TARDIS in the same sentence.

If Moffat gives a better explanation as to who blew up the TARDIS in Matt Smith's final story, that would be brilliant.
If he doesn't, then I think all we can do is assume that blowing up the TARDIS was the Silence's first shoddy and needlessly complicated attempt at killing the Doctor.

I think Moffat just makes it up as he goes along.
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Old 30-08-2013, 22:35
LurgidBee
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I think this theory (or something like it) has merit.

I've never quite bought people's acceptance that the silence were behind the tardis exploding. Since the Name of the Doctor there has been some semblance of a consensus that agrees that the silence's motivation for "silencing" the doctor was to prevent him from going to trenzalore, being removed from history and hence undoing all the good things he has done to save the universe thus destroying the universe. If we take this as true, it would be utterly counter-productive for them to silence the doctor by blowing up the tardis (and hence destroying the universe).

Now, this could be attributed to flimsy story telling - which is a definite possibility. But I hope the tardis explosion is one of those loose threads that Moffat intends to tie up prior to the regeneration.

So if we entertain the notion that there is some relationship between the tardis explosion, 8.5, the silence and the time war, perhaps:

- it is 8.5 who says "Silence will fall", explaining the crotchety old voice
- it may explain why the Silence have tardises, perhaps (entering fan wank territory here):
-- maybe they were one of the weapons made by the daleks or the time lords in the vein of the "could-have-been-king and his army of never-weres
-- maybe they are timelords

I'll stop now before I embarrass myself.
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Old 30-08-2013, 22:39
SilenceWillFall
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I always assumed it was the Silence because in The Pandorica Opens, the TARDIS monitor screen cracks and a voice says "Silence will Fall". Then at the end of The Big Bang, the Doctor mentions not knowing who the Silence are and not knowing who blew up the TARDIS in the same sentence.

If Moffat gives a better explanation as to who blew up the TARDIS in Matt Smith's final story, that would be brilliant.
If he doesn't, then I think all we can do is assume that blowing up the TARDIS was the Silence's first shoddy and needlessly complicated attempt at killing the Doctor.

I think Moffat just makes it up as he goes along.
Yet, the Doctor later assumes that the meaning of "silence" in "Silence will fall" means his death and not the Silence as the religious order or the Silents as a race. In The Wedding of River Song he says:
"And silence would fall. All the times I've heard those words, I never realised...it was my silence. My death. The Doctor will fall."
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Old 30-08-2013, 22:55
kyllerbuzcut
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My theory *Possible lunatic theory alert- so please don't moan and tell me how impossible it is- I've been through it all and it works for me at least, so there *
is the Doctor being put in the pandorica caused the Tardis to explode. If you watch the first part of that 2-parter, then as soon as the pandorica door closes, the stars all start exploding immediately.

The only 'star' left is the Tardis, using up all its energy for 2000 years by behaving like the Sun, so that Earth can hang on for a bit longer. Because as soon as it 'goes' that's it- the universe has had it.

The beginning of the next episode has the little girl dreaming of stars, and everyone thinks she is crazy because stars don't exist. They'd all 'gone' by then.

The process of the Tardis burning up creates the cracks (massive paradox with the Doctor not being in the universe, how can the Tardis exist, yet it does, plus al the worlds they have saved) which seep through time and space, leading the alliance to think that putting the Doctor in the pandorica is the way to stop it. (Someone must have told them this would work for some reason- THIS is the big bad mastermind we should be looking for, as it is they who ultimately caused the Tardis explosion. )

So I don't believe someone got to the Tardis either by sneaking in, or sending it a message or whatever to make it explode. I think it exploded because of the removal of the Doctor from the universe, by being put in the Pandorica.

The voice saying Silence will fall - I think THAT was either a message that the Tardis picked up at that point ( no idea who from- there's loads of theories flying around like it was Omega), or it was a narrator.
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Old 31-08-2013, 10:24
johnnysaucepn
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My theory *Possible lunatic theory alert- so please don't moan and tell me how impossible it is- I've been through it all and it works for me at least, so there *
No, it's not really a question of whether it's impossible - after all, it's all impossible - but whether there's anything in the narrative to support it.

Your theory is missing two things - how putting the Doctor in the Pandorica causes the TARDIS to explode, and why the Doctor, after everything had happened, was so clear that someone drew his TARDIS to a particular place and time, and blew it up. He even gave them a name, already concluding that it was a group working against him.

I suppose, in an indirect way, the Pandorica was responsible for the TARDIS exploding, but only because putting the Doctor in the Pandorica made it impossible for him to avert the consequences.
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Old 31-08-2013, 10:42
kyllerbuzcut
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No, it's not really a question of whether it's impossible - after all, it's all impossible - but whether there's anything in the narrative to support it.

Your theory is missing two things - how putting the Doctor in the Pandorica causes the TARDIS to explode, and why the Doctor, after everything had happened, was so clear that someone drew his TARDIS to a particular place and time, and blew it up. He even gave them a name, already concluding that it was a group working against him.

I suppose, in an indirect way, the Pandorica was responsible for the TARDIS exploding, but only because putting the Doctor in the Pandorica made it impossible for him to avert the consequences.
Being 'removed from the rest of the universe' was how putting the Doctor in the pandorica causes the Tardis to explode. ( That's what I think anyway, and I gathered that from what was said in the episode)

He knew the Tardis was 'being drawn' to a particuular place and time, where it blew up. This is because it was something which already happened ( piece of the exploded Tardis he found through a crack). It had an 'appointment' there already. It did also wait around nearly 2000 years above the Earth before it actually did explode. So that was the time/place where it exploded, so it had to be there at that place and time in order to explode.

He knew/thought the Silence engineered all this to come about, but the reason why he doesn't go investigating the Tardis for intruders or planted bombs is because he knows there aren't anything like that. It all comes back again to why. the silence obviously believe it is beneficial to them to get the Doctor out of the way, or whatever their current motive is. They could be having this belief falsely because someone ( Their leader? An outside informant?) is telling them this. THIS is the big bad baddie.
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Old 31-08-2013, 14:15
inspector drake
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I always assumed it was the Silence because in The Pandorica Opens, the TARDIS monitor screen cracks and a voice says "Silence will Fall". Then at the end of The Big Bang, the Doctor mentions not knowing who the Silence are and not knowing who blew up the TARDIS in the same sentence.

If Moffat gives a better explanation as to who blew up the TARDIS in Matt Smith's final story, that would be brilliant.
If he doesn't, then I think all we can do is assume that blowing up the TARDIS was the Silence's first shoddy and needlessly complicated attempt at killing the Doctor.

I think Moffat just makes it up as he goes along.
What if they do it during Capaldi's tenure?
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Old 31-08-2013, 14:48
LivingDestiny
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Has anyone actually speculated that John Hurt's Doctor might actually be a ganger
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Old 31-08-2013, 14:59
lordOfTime
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Has anyone actually speculated that John Hurt's Doctor might actually be a ganger
Nah that story's been done
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Old 31-08-2013, 20:28
johnnysaucepn
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Being 'removed from the rest of the universe' was how putting the Doctor in the pandorica causes the Tardis to explode. ( That's what I think anyway, and I gathered that from what was said in the episode)
Well, that's entirely your right, but nothing like that, or even relating to that, was said in the episode, and it still doesn't explain how that would cause the TARDIS to explode anyway.

At the end of the day, people criticise Moffat for leaving unanswered questions - where would we be if people's theorised answers left even more questions?!
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Old 31-08-2013, 20:50
kyllerbuzcut
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Well, that's entirely your right, but nothing like that, or even relating to that, was said in the episode, and it still doesn't explain how that would cause the TARDIS to explode anyway.

At the end of the day, people criticise Moffat for leaving unanswered questions - where would we be if people's theorised answers left even more questions?!
The Doctor said it to the alliance - how every sun everywhere would supernova if he was put in there- just before he was put in the pandorica. then in the next episode River and Amy talk to the Doctor about how he will cease to exist when he goes in.

The only difference in unanswered question is there is one less. If the question is "Who blew up the Tardis?" then how did they do it, how did they get in, and how did they persuade the alliance to set everything up? If they could do all that they probably could have just killed the Doctor or destroyed the Tardis any other way.

If it worked more like I am thinking, then there's only the question of "who persuaded the alliance to put him in the Pandorica?". and how did they manage that?

Of course, there could be a totally different way the writers come up with in the end. They probably deliberately left it like an unanswered question, so they had something cool to work with at a later date anyway, with not much thought at the time of who or what did it/made it happen.
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Old 31-08-2013, 21:45
Fairyprincess0
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What if the doctor did it in the future, knowing it was the only way he was gonna meet Amy.....
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Old 31-08-2013, 22:30
kyllerbuzcut
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What if the doctor did it in the future, knowing it was the only way he was gonna meet Amy.....
That could work out interesting. It's the kind of thing that's been done before though, but I'm sure Moffat could put a little twist on it
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:05
The Alpha Gamer
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Didn't the Rani do it?
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Old 01-09-2013, 15:42
sebbie3000
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Moffat has said he will tie up the questions from Matt's Reign, this is believed to be included as it is the biggest



No Prisoner zero was just aware of the events I think



It's yet to be confirmed and never been stated that it was them, the silence tried to kill the doctor to prevent him revealing his name, i doubt they would want to destroy the universe.

Might be them but I think it's some one else
Didn't Moffat mention that he always assumed it was the Silence who blew up the TARDIS in an interview or something?



I guess they wouldn't have known that it would lead to the universe exploding and they would have blown it up either to kill the Doctor (though that would mean they wrongly assumed he was inside) or just in order for him not to have it and therefore be pretty much harmless stuck on 21st century Earth or something.
He's never confirmed, just stated that the answers will come. it could yet be a silence plan gone wrong, but it seemed bigger than that.
According to Moff, it was the Silence, and was confirmed to be them. However, as it wasn't on-screen, he could well change that.

But I sincerely doubt that.
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