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New TV makes everything look like it was filmed on video in the 80s


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Old 03-09-2013, 21:45
BeeVee
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Hey all,

Long time no post. Our Philips TV died while we were away and I was shocked to discover that the price for getting it repaired would actually buy a new TV of similar quality. We wanted to get one that would last a little longer so we bought a Panasonic Smart Viera TX-L42ET60E - it's bigger at 42" compared to the Philips 37", has 3D and is connected to the net. Obviously being in France we can't get iPlayer and such through it (I know I could proxy to pretend to be in England), but it's a stonking set. The only issue is that watching The Walking Dead on it last night, and Iron Man 3 this evening and everything looks very cheap. The lighting is harsh and the update seems like video rather than film. The set supposedly supporting a 200Hz refresh for the 3D, but I don't think it can only be this. I haven't yet had the time (or energy) to really fiddle with everything, but skimming through the menus quickly doesn't bring anything immediately obvious to the fore. Anyone got a similar set?

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Old 03-09-2013, 21:52
grimtales1
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I have the 47" version of that set I think (well the ET61 John Lewis version), are you watching with the Intelligent Frame Creation stuff turned off?
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Old 03-09-2013, 21:53
Tiexen
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. I haven't yet had the time (or energy) to really fiddle with everything,
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And that's your answer

Turn off all the picture "enhancements" and turn down the colour - adjust the brightness/contrast etc restore colour to suit
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Old 03-09-2013, 22:12
flashman1
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Its Intelligent Frame Creation .
Panny sells these sets with it set to MAX.
Switch it to OFF.

There is a similar setting that needs switching off when you view your Blurays ( can't recall its name off hand).
SMOOTH something IIRC
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Old 03-09-2013, 22:23
grimtales1
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Think thats 24p Smooth Film. Switch that to OFF (imo).
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Old 03-09-2013, 23:03
flashman1
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Think thats 24p Smooth Film. Switch that to OFF (imo).
I've not tried it but I wonder what the Vidfired Dr Who stories look like?
These are film prints that have basically gone through an IFC type of gizmo to return them to the original look of video .
If the IFC of the Panny tv is on they must look weird .
I'll have to give it a try
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Old 03-09-2013, 23:35
BeeVee
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Thanks guys! I'll give it a go.

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Old 04-09-2013, 00:45
BeeVee
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That worked brilliantly - I had an episode of Under The Dome that was exhibiting the same kind of look and was immediately improved. Now a different problem has become more obvious. There seems to be a delay, either forward or back I can't make up my mind, with the sound. It's only small, but once noticed becomes more and more annoying. I'm guessing that it too is a processing thing that's causing the issue.

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Old 04-09-2013, 01:06
call100
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There may be a lip sync setting somewhere in the audio menu.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:32
grimtales1
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I cant find a setting like that on mine, but I know what you mean about the audio delay, it often doesnt feel like I#m watching "as live" TV but more like a recorded programme with the sound dubbed on later and its kinda weird.
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:42
Grouty
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Always have to spend a bit of time setting these Tv's up, SD PQ on mine was crap when i got it (Sammy 6 series), looked like i was watching old pirate videos, but after finding some settings on AV Forums, and then tweaking them to my taste, it looks fine now.

Probably as its only 576 (or whatever it is) on a full 1080p, and being on the bigger screens (40"+) won't help either.

Its about time every channel was HD now tbh, especially this day and age, HD looks great.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:59
captainkremmen
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A good way to get the best out of any set is to Google your TV model and "calibration".

If you are lucky you'll come across a forum post/blog post where someone has paid the high charges (typically around 200-300 pounds) to have their set professionally calibrated and they have been kind enough to post the settings.

I did that with mine, found the settings and spent about half an hour or so following the setup. The difference in picture quality was quite marked too, SD massively improved (but it's a Plasma set which is generally better with SD than LCD) and a great improvement in HD picture quality too.
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Old 04-09-2013, 13:41
BeeVee
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I couldn't find anything in the audio menu either, but I'm not defeated, I shall carry on looking Oddly though, I noticed that the Intelligent Frame Creation had gone back to Max, so I had to reset it again.

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Old 04-09-2013, 21:09
flashman1
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That worked brilliantly - I had an episode of Under The Dome that was exhibiting the same kind of look and was immediately improved. Now a different problem has become more obvious. There seems to be a delay, either forward or back I can't make up my mind, with the sound. It's only small, but once noticed becomes more and more annoying. I'm guessing that it too is a processing thing that's causing the issue.

B
If the lipsynch issue is visible from Bluray I would switch the 24p setting to OFF.
I have a 3D Panny LED and Panny Bluray player with a Yamaha amp and I had lipsynch issues with a variety of discs ( even bought this new amp and sold a Denon to sort the problem out but it didnt) .
Tried changing all the settings as advised but nothing worked .
Just by chance I switched 24p off and hey presto problem solved.
I even contacted Panny about it but they had no answer.
The inconsistencies with the problem pointed to every device being at fault but since I switched 24p off on the Bluray and PS3 the problem has not appeared.
It should not happen as 24p is supposed to be the correct setting but the bottom line is that it works .

No point in introducing or changing delay settings as I'm sure you'll see the synch issues do not happen with every disc or recording so if you set a delay for one thing it will mess up the rest.

Some players and tv's even have a "synch" setting that is supposed to remove these issues when connected via HDMI but I don't seem to have that even though I'm supposed to.

Bluray at 60hz is supposedly inferior to 24p but I can't see any difference just as I couldn't see any difference when I first switched it on as my previous set wasn't 24p compatible
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Old 04-09-2013, 21:45
BeeVee
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Thanks flashman1. I hadn't noticed it particularly from bluray, it was more TV and TV recordings. This set is a lot more complex than my previous Philips one, I have the feeling "Smart TV" is more trouble than it's worth, especially if you only want to control everything from a single remote (Harmony 700).

The ability to shift a YouTube vid from watching it on your phone to watching it on the telly is very cool, but it would be good to see the buffering taking place, like you do on the desktop, since our internet connection isn't great. I'd rather let it buffer, then be able to play the whole thing through rather than the Start/Stop we always get.

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Old 04-09-2013, 22:31
flashman1
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Thanks flashman1. I hadn't noticed it particularly from bluray, it was more TV and TV recordings. This set is a lot more complex than my previous Philips one, I have the feeling "Smart TV" is more trouble than it's worth, especially if you only want to control everything from a single remote (Harmony 700).

The ability to shift a YouTube vid from watching it on your phone to watching it on the telly is very cool, but it would be good to see the buffering taking place, like you do on the desktop, since our internet connection isn't great. I'd rather let it buffer, then be able to play the whole thing through rather than the Start/Stop we always get.

B
I use the Logitech Harmony One without any problems.
Devices apart from the Panny tv are :

Motorised sat receiver
Tivo
PS3
Humax Freeview Recorder
Pioneer hdd/dvd recorder
Panny Bluray player
Yamaha amp

If its a tv recording with synch issues you'll probably find it won't happen too often .
Sometimes rewinding and playing again will restore synch
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:56
AidanLunn
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Its about time every channel was HD now tbh, especially this day and age, HD looks great.
Budget and RF capacity limit that.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:07
BeeVee
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Yeah I was really annoyed with Logitech for limiting the number of devices that could be used on their Harmony devices. The 700 only allows for six - the Panny TV, Foxsat, Yamaha amp, Philips Blu-Ray and Wii. The new Touch looks interesting (up to 15 devices) although 179 just for a remote seems a bit steep (at least a bit difficult to justify to the missus).

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Old 05-09-2013, 19:15
vinceben
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Had lipsync problems with my 50"lg plasma and realised after a few weeks that it was only happening whist watching through my Sky Hd and not internal Freeview HD. It was only every now and then, but annoying. When it happened now I switch tv to game mode and problem solved for a while and then switch back to standard and ok again. Make sure all fancy audio and picture settings are off. They are just gimmics and not needed.
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Old 05-09-2013, 20:55
flashman1
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I tried changing all the settings as even with all the processing off it was still going on .
It wasn't until I switched off 24p that it stopped completely.

I had the Bluray of Magnum Force and Scrooge (1970) and both had bad lipsynch issues ( these were the worst but there were lots that had issues including Cliffhanger and 3D Disneys) - but only in certain parts of the film . Other sections would be fine so adding a delay was a non starter.
With Magnum Force the synch was further out when playing the Dolby HD track than with the standard DD track .

Since I solved the problem a few months ago I changed my Panasonic tv to a different one and a couple of weeks ago I actually switched 24p back on again on the player and PS3 and tested both movies again and sure enough the synch was out .
Switched if off and everythings fine.
I can't find any rhyme or reason as to why this should happen . If it happened with certain discs you would at least expect the synch to be out for the whole film - but it isn't.
The whole thing makes no sense so I'm just happy that with 24p off it all works fine - although with 24p set to on the majority are ok but the synch issues are too bad to ignore when they are there
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Old 06-09-2013, 12:43
tealady
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A good way to get the best out of any set is to Google your TV model and "calibration".
Seems ludicrous to me that you spend 500+ on a tv and then you are reduced to doing this.
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Old 06-09-2013, 15:14
captainkremmen
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Seems ludicrous to me that you spend 500+ on a tv and then you are reduced to doing this.
The sets are usually set up for demonstration purposes, normally to be demonstrated in a brightly lit store competing with a myriad of other brands.

Proper calibration for the home is a different thing entirely, and something that is quite personal, and also affected by different lighting, TV positioning etc. but can take hours and hours of tweaking every little setting to get things just right. That's why some enthusiasts are prepared to spend a couple of hundred pounds getting professionals out to do the job for them.

TV manufacturers, even when it comes to built in settings like Cinema they usually include, do it to the lowest common denominator, essentially what they think will work for "most" people in standard conditions. For many people those settings will work fine, but for many they don't and can leave people disappointed with their 500 or 1000 purchase, that's especially true if those built in settings use the myriad of picture processing modes. They should ALL be turned off by default in my opinion as with most digital sources they tend to make things looks worse..

Googling to see if someone has had their set professionally calibrated and been kind enough to post the settings, can save many hours of tweaking and retweaking if you are someone who wants to try and get the best out of an expensive purchase. But again, it's a personal thing, so even someone's professional settings might not suit everyone and might still require some minor tweaking (usually just changes to brightness and contrast though I have found)..

I've Googled the settings on four TVs, my own, my mother's, a neighbours and my brother's, and in three cases the picture quality improved. The only one I couldn't find settings for was my neighbour's. On both my mother's and my brother's the changes were subtle, but noticeable. My brother's Samsung no longer gives images that slightly "cartoonish" look that many LCDs suffer from and my mother's was sharper with better, less muted colours. But on my own Plasma the difference was far more marked and the improvements much greater, I'm actually very glad I was able to find the proper calibration settings and they worked first time in my setting.Took about half an hour all in.

Yes the manufacturers could probably do better, but as I said, they tend to set things up for what they think is the most common setups.
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Old 06-09-2013, 15:54
Nigel Goodwin
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The sets are usually set up for demonstration purposes, normally to be demonstrated in a brightly lit store competing with a myriad of other brands.
Not at all, not for a good many years - anything remotely modern will ask during initial install if it's for Home or Shop use, and set it accordingly.

Even some old CRT sets did this as well, although previous to that it was fairly common that the default settings out of the box were for shop demonstration mode - presumably on the grounds that shop staff were too thick to adjust it accordingly?
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Old 06-09-2013, 20:13
tealady
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The sets are ................ is the most common setups.
Thankyou for your comprehensive reply.
I did find some settings for my tv (not sure what I would have done without them), but it said they are for blu ray and that settings are device specific. Is that correct? Not a prob, as I can multiple setups based on inputs.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:19
Hinksy
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Not at all, not for a good many years - anything remotely modern will ask during initial install if it's for Home or Shop use, and set it accordingly.

Even some old CRT sets did this as well, although previous to that it was fairly common that the default settings out of the box were for shop demonstration mode - presumably on the grounds that shop staff were too thick to adjust it accordingly?
No, the shop settings will tend to reset the settings to default after a certain time period because people like to change the settings when they're playing around with them in the shop. Home settings still tend to start on Dynamic and have everything enabled.
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