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Violence against men in soaps...
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Oldnjaded
07-09-2013
Originally Posted by cobwebsoup:
“What was it that happened in Emmerdale last night?”

Moira gave Cain an almighty slap across the face, in front of two police officers, when she suspected he had helped her son to escape from said police by causing a distraction. The police stood there and did nothing.
Oldnjaded
07-09-2013
Originally Posted by Glendarroch:
“Jaded! I'm shocked! He's not a stupid lad our Cain She could have, but people don't always react as they should, do they? Not when their that upset. Anyway, the put down would probably have hurt him more

What disappointed me was the police not doing anything about it. These days, I just don't think that would happen. They arrested Charity for kneeing Cameron in the groin. Moira should have got the same treatment.”

I know right? I can't believe they just stood there. (I know it's not going to happen but Cain would have a cast iron case if he decided to press charges, with 2 police officers as witnesses).

And no, people don't always react how they should in the heat of the moment, but wouldn't it be nice if, just once, they did, instead of the writers forcing sensationalist drama on them in the name of misguided 'entertainment'?
Glendarroch
07-09-2013
Originally Posted by Oldnjaded:
“I know right? I can't believe they just stood there. (I know it's not going to happen but Cain would have a cast iron case if he decided to press charges, with 2 police officers as witnesses).

And no, people don't always react how they should in the heat of the moment, but wouldn't it be nice if, just once, they did, instead of the writers forcing sensationalist drama on them in the name of misguided 'entertainment'? ”

I tell you what would be nice. If Cain flings it back in her face (not literally, before anyone mistakes my meaning) and stops putting her on a pedestal now that he's seen that she's got flaws too! It would be quite nice to see her apologise (and mean it) for hitting him, and at least understand that he was trying to help. Much as I like both characters, he needs to stop thinking that she's better than him.
Andybear
07-09-2013
Originally Posted by Sick Bullet:
“That's the point it was not shocking, a women slapping a man no big deal, it should be but it isn't.”

It was shocking to me (I'm a woman) and quite a lot of other people judging by the comments on this thread.
PorkchopExpress
07-09-2013
Originally Posted by 80's Gal:
“I never thought of Trevor as troubled, he was a bully and a control freak who used his wife as a punch bag. He didn't need a reason to do that either - it was everyday behaviour for him. I don't think you can compare him to Moira Barton as it isn't normal behaviour for her to do that. She is constantly preaching to Cain that he shouldn't use his fists every time he has a disagreement with someone.

I do understand why she did it - I am not saying she was right but I do understand why.

I think it was very odd that the Police did nothing, and I do think that if it had of been a man then they would have immediately arrested him as well.”

I wasn't seeking to make a comparison between those characters.

I don't think the circumstances merited her violently assaulting someone. If my son was in a similar far fetched situation it wouldn't cross my mind to hit someone.
80's Gal
07-09-2013
Originally Posted by Glendarroch:
“I tell you what would be nice. If Cain flings it back in her face (not literally, before anyone mistakes my meaning) and stops putting her on a pedestal now that he's seen that she's got flaws too! It would be quite nice to see her apologise (and mean it) for hitting him, and at least understand that he was trying to help. Much as I like both characters, he needs to stop thinking that she's better than him.”

Good point.

I love Cain and Moira as a couple but I do think he is constantly trying to prove that he is worthy of her and I think that's the reason he hides a lot from her. Who can blame him really? How many times has she told him that they are finished because she doesn't like something that he has done?

Spoiler
I'm not sure if she throws him out on Monday or if he talks her round and she realises that he was trying to help Adam. Who knows maybe she does apologise?

But regardless of what happens, he still goes off and scams money off someone at the end if the week - all to help her out. It will be interesting to see whether she takes the moral high ground and refuses the cash or if she accepts it.
Glendarroch
07-09-2013
Originally Posted by PorkchopExpress:
“I wasn't seeking to make a comparison between those characters.

I don't think the circumstances merited her violently assaulting someone. If my son was in a similar far fetched situation it wouldn't cross my mind to hit someone.”

Yeah, but in Cain's situation, would you have helped her son to escape, or assaulted the policeman?

the thing about their relationship is Cain is honest about what he is like. Moira likes to take the moral high ground, but when it comes down to it she's not much better. He's got her on a pedestal and I don't see that changing soon, even after that slap.

That said, she is a fiery person, and she did it in a moment of temper and extreme stress - I don't think you could count it as a domestic abuse, any more than Rhona attacking Paddy when she was going through cold turkey. I personally hope she realises she was in the wrong and stops being so judgemental to him every time he 'loses it.' I don't think the slap was written in any way to demean him as a character, or make female violence against men more entertaining or acceptable than any other sort of violence. They were creating a bit of drama and showing her state of mind. They do the same when Cain and Cameron fight.
IWasBored
07-09-2013
Originally Posted by PorkchopExpress:
“People often say that the "can understand why they did it" but never when it's a man hitting a woman. I don't recall much understanding for Trevor when he was battering Little Mo.

I have never hit anyone in my life and I don't understand how anyone, male or female, can fail to control themselves and behave violently. It's criminal behaviour and should be treated as such.”

I agree. Especially with the bit I highlighted.

I think Corrie ruined the abuse of Tyrone when he never reported it and instead got engaged to her. Who's to say that she couldn't have killed him when she found out about him and Fiz? A month is long enough, especially when he's supposed to be living in fear. Also he was the father. Why couldn't he just get his name put on the birth certificate? It's not the immaculate conception, the baby is going to have a father. He could have gathered every single piece of evidence and gone to police. He could have done what Kevin did as to prove that he was the biological father. Why didn't Fiz & Tyrone upload that photo they took of the damage Kirsty did? So flaming stupid . These characters aren't supposed to be university graduates, but that doesn't mean that they have to be dumb either. These soaps portray the working class as lacking any common sense
Sick Bullet
07-09-2013
Originally Posted by Glendarroch:
“I found it shocking, and I'm a woman. It was very violent.”

It was violent? lol it was a lovers tiff she slapped him because he did something stupid.
tq21
07-09-2013
Originally Posted by NathanJohnson:
“Yet from what I recall people seemed to side with Kirsty (on the forums I mean) making up excuses like she is "disturbed" and needs "help", yet I don't recall male abusers or villains getting a sympathetic story for why they have become like this. And making Tyrone look like he is in the wrong because he never reported it and poor Kirsty this.

Its not just men getting hit, when they make a fool out of them. Like Steve in Coronation Street is treated like a moron to make the likes of Eileen and Michelle get one over on him and look clever in comparison.”

I remember seeing people say Tyrone deserved it
Glendarroch
07-09-2013
Originally Posted by Sick Bullet:
“It was violent? lol it was a lovers tiff she slapped him because he did something stupid.”

It wasn't a lover's tiff -it was a very hard blow with a lot of force, not just a slap(and she'd be in the wrong for that too). However, I'm not about to accuse her of domestic violence or anything like that. I can understand why she was in such a state as to hit him so hard.

But if Cain had done the same to her in front of the police he would have been arrested for assault or breach of the peace, or at least the police would have warned him not to do it again. They should have treated her the same.

I hope when she realises that he was acting in Adam's best interest, she has a darned good apology ready. Then she can verbally tear a strip of him for being an idiot.
Glendarroch
07-09-2013
Originally Posted by PorkchopExpress:
“I wasn't seeking to make a comparison between those characters.

I don't think the circumstances merited her violently assaulting someone. If my son was in a similar far fetched situation it wouldn't cross my mind to hit someone.”

I can understand how in a situation like that people lose their heads and react violently. That's why fights happen and even some murders. I've spent an afternoon on the phone to the bank and I feel like killing someone.
Originally Posted by IWasBored:
“I agree. Especially with the bit I highlighted.

I think Corrie ruined the abuse of Tyrone when he never reported it and instead got engaged to her. Who's to say that she couldn't have killed him when she found out about him and Fiz? A month is long enough, especially when he's supposed to be living in fear. Also he was the father. Why couldn't he just get his name put on the birth certificate? It's not the immaculate conception, the baby is going to have a father. He could have gathered every single piece of evidence and gone to police. He could have done what Kevin did as to prove that he was the biological father. Why didn't Fiz & Tyrone upload that photo they took of the damage Kirsty did? So flaming stupid . These characters aren't supposed to be university graduates, but that doesn't mean that they have to be dumb either. These soaps portray the working class as lacking any common sense”

That's not lacking common sense - that sounds to me like a fairly typical domestic abuse situation. People don't always press charges because they love the person involved and they think things will get better, or that they're to blame. They're might also be things like finances, fear of losing a home, and fear of losing contact with children. Basically the things that stopped women reporting or getting help with domestic abuse in the past, before the law and attitudes changed to support women in this situation.
MissLola
07-09-2013
I slapped a class mate when I was 13 or 14. She was an annoying bitch. She had put her hand in my hair and pretended she couldn't remove it because my hair is curly. I slapped her. I don't know where that came from but it was a mighty slap. She's the only person I've ever slapped. She never touched my hair again.
Sick Bullet
07-09-2013
If you think a women slapping her boy friend for what ever reason is violent, then well you should have a look around and see what is going on.

Yes she should be treated the same as if it was the other way but it will never happen, like I say when Phil Slapped Sharon really hard it was more shocking not violent.

A slap around the chops is not violent come on people, you could say Cain deserved that as he made things worse.
evole
07-09-2013
Originally Posted by MissLola:
“I slapped a class mate when I was 13 or 14. She was an annoying bitch. She had put her hand in my hair and pretended she couldn't remove it because my hair is curly. I slapped her. I don't know where that came from but it was a mighty slap. She's the only person I've ever slapped. She never touched my hair again. ”

I don't condone it, but I understand. Sometimes you have to slap the hell outta bitches when they act like fools,lol
Glendarroch
07-09-2013
Originally Posted by Sick Bullet:
“If you think a women slapping her boy friend for what ever reason is violent, then well you should have a look around and see what is going on.

Yes she should be treated the same as if it was the other way but it will never happen, like I say when Phil Slapped Sharon really hard it was more shocking not violent.

A slap around the chops is not violent come on people, you could say Cain deserved that as he made things worse.”

Of course there's a lot worse happening in reality, but she did do it with some force. . If he hadn't had the cuffs on he should have slapped her back, but he's not likely to do that, is he? That doesn't make her a thug or anything like that, especially given the circumstances but she darned well owes him a grovelling apology and she might want to think twice next time she lectures him as well.

For the record, seeing as we're getting all confessional I slapped my sister once, but she had been annoying me for eighteen years, so I feel I had some justification
IWasBored
08-09-2013
Originally Posted by Glendarroch:
“That's not lacking common sense - that sounds to me like a fairly typical domestic abuse situation. People don't always press charges because they love the person involved and they think things will get better, or that they're to blame. They're might also be things like finances, fear of losing a home, and fear of losing contact with children. Basically the things that stopped women reporting or getting help with domestic abuse in the past, before the law and attitudes changed to support women in this situation.”

I meant that not uploading the photo from his mobile to a computer was lacking on common sense. He was all set to leave her until Fiz poked her nose in. I instantly got fed up with this storyline from then on. TBH I think Emmerdale's SL with Zack's schizophrenia was a better SL, and this should have won the best SL award, for me personally. It was very well written, especially as Zack has already displayed wayward behaviour at times. Remember that time when he just trotted off to South America on a whim?
Glendarroch
08-09-2013
Originally Posted by IWasBored:
“I meant that not uploading the photo from his mobile to a computer was lacking on common sense. He was all set to leave her until Fiz poked her nose in. I instantly got fed up with this storyline from then on. TBH I think Emmerdale's SL with Zack's schizophrenia was a better SL, and this should have won the best SL award, for me personally. It was very well written, especially as Zack has already displayed wayward behaviour at times. Remember that time when he just trotted off to South America on a whim?”

Sorry, I didn't watch Corrie while that story was running, so I was just going on what you said, I don't know the intimate details of what happened. I can't stand Tyrone or Fizz, so I couldn't watch! Frankly I would probably beat Tyrone if I was living with him I really just meant that from what I know, it's not untypical behaviour for domestic abuse victims to do anything to prevent the abuse being revealed, or to admit to it - you know, the old 'I walked into a door excuse.' It would take an awful lot of courage for someone to go so far as taking photos and uploading them as potential evidence in that sort of situation, I would think.

I thought the Zac story was fairly well done, too, although I would have preferred to see him actually being diagnosed with something definite, and perhaps going to a support group from time to time. I was going to say 'receiving ongoing therapy' but that's darned difficult to get on the NHS, so they got that bit right!
Whedonite
09-09-2013
Sexism goes both ways. Look at some of the comments women receive on these boards that men do not. Both genders are ostracised in soaps (and real life) for doing something the opposite sex gets away with. Shame really.
Glendarroch
09-09-2013
Originally Posted by Whedonite:
“Sexism goes both ways. Look at some of the comments women recieve of these boards that men do not. Both genders are ostracised in soaps (and real life) for doing something the opposite sex gets away with. Shame really.”

Totally agree. Mind you the slap that provoked this discussion was a bloomin' hard one. I winced as she did it. I don't like these things being done for comic effect as they sometimes are (when it's women being violent to men), but in this case it wasn't. It would be nice to see characters always taking the moral high ground, but also fairly unrealistic.
Whedonite
09-09-2013
Originally Posted by Glendarroch:
“Totally agree. Mind you the slap that provoked this discussion was a bloomin' hard one. I winced as she did it. I don't like these things being done for comic effect as they sometimes are (when it's women being violent to men), but in this case it wasn't. It would be nice to see characters always taking the moral high ground, but also fairly unrealistic.”

It always bugs me when women casually abuse their partners on TV. I like the show King of Queens, but the wife practically abuses her husband. Punching him in the stomach for disagreeing with her and twisting his nipples isn't really funny
Glendarroch
09-09-2013
Originally Posted by Whedonite:
“It always bugs me when women casually abuse their partners on TV. I like the show King of Queens, but the wife practically abuses her husband. Punching him in the stomach for disagreeing with her and twisting his nipples isn't really funny ”

No, that is off. You saying that, though, reminds me of the couple in Father Ted who owned the shop, and were constantly abusing each other, but would be sweet as pie when the priests came in I think that worked because they were both equally horrible to each other, and both as keen to present a very different image to the priests.
Whedonite
09-09-2013
Originally Posted by Glendarroch:
“No, that is off. You saying that, though, reminds me of the couple in Father Ted who owned the shop, and were constantly abusing each other, but would be sweet as pie when the priests came in I think that worked because they were both equally horrible to each other, and both as keen to present a very different image to the priests.”

For some reason, older couples who verbally abuse each other always make me laugh. In real life it would be quite awkward to witness, but on TV it's just funny.
Glendarroch
09-09-2013
Originally Posted by Whedonite:
“ For some reason, older couples who verbally abuse each other always make me laugh. In real life it would be quite awkward to witness, but on TV it's just funny.”

oh yeah verbal sparring's fine. I find Cain and Charity's ability to use the nastiest insults to each other, and yet still, eventually, get past that, quite entertaining. The two in Father Ted beat each other up as well, but they both equally to blame and each gave as good as they got. They hated each other, but they always had to put on a good face in front of the priests.

I think it was different when women had fewer legal rights (including in domestic abuse situations), and could almost expect to be discriminated against or sexually harrassed, then seeing a woman hit a man on t.v was probably popular with female viewers - a way of getting their own back. I wonder if it's because these things only really changed for women in the 70s and 80s that the physical attacking of men for little justification is still seen as acceptable or even funny, in a way that it might not be if the situation was reversed?
rosco2010
09-09-2013
I remember when the domestic violence storyline in Hollyoaks where Mandy was beating Tony up. I can't remember how it started or how it ended, but I remember one scene where the door was closed and all you could hear was Tony moaning in pain.
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