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EE Wednesday 11th September- Is it 9/11 for Alfie and Roxy?


View Poll Results: Are you happy to see Ronnie back?
Yes 129 76.79%
I guess 19 11.31%
No 20 11.90%
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Old 13-09-2013, 16:10
ilovenicnacs
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Nice try but it's no good arguing with Ronnie's fanatics. You may as well try and drain the Atlantic with a teaspoon.
Actually , Ronnie is not one of my favourite characters, I find her quite dull tbh, but she has been through a lot in her life which had a bearing on her state of mind.

in the end, Alfie and Kat thought their child was dead for 3 months, but they ultimately got him back and are sharing him quite happily, will watch him start school and grow up and get married and eventually become Grandparents, Ronnie will never enjoy these things, her child is gone forever, so who do you think is more deserving of compassion?

Alfies reaction is totally ott because his pain, although overwhelming, was transitory, they have their child back, Ronnie has nothing, and now Alfie has even taken her sister away from her by threatening to finish with her (I still think the "choose" scene was more that she injured his pride with the rave joke than anything else), he is trying to control everyone else's emotions so he can keep the moral high ground.
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Old 13-09-2013, 16:12
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You did mention Michael and your comment made it sound like you think he's more important because they share dna. He clearly doesn't love him as a dad should at least. He usually refers to Scarlett as his only child, as he did when speaking to Ronnie. He doesn't love Tommy as a son. Alfie is not simply his dad by marriage. That makes their bond sound fairly weak. He's been there since before he was born. Alfie has every right to be pissed off. Kat may be allowed to forgive Ronnie, but that doesn't mean Alfie has to be ok with it.



Who are you speaking on behalf of? Tommy isn't just anyone's baby. He is the son of someone Alfie loves very much. You cannot say that even if Alfie didn't think of him as his son, that he would not have died for him anyway. Alfie thought he was his biological son for months and chose to stay with Kat when he discovered otherwise. He has always loved Tommy and was clearly devestated when he thought he had died. We must be watching different soaps.
Here's me thinking he was being OTT as usual
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Old 13-09-2013, 16:30
ilovenicnacs
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You did mention Michael and your comment made it sound like you think he's more important because they share dna. He clearly doesn't love him as a dad should at least. He usually refers to Scarlett as his only child, as he did when speaking to Ronnie. He doesn't love Tommy as a son. Alfie is not simply his dad by marriage. That makes their bond sound fairly weak. He's been there since before he was born. Alfie has every right to be pissed off. Kat may be allowed to forgive Ronnie, but that doesn't mean Alfie has to be ok with it.
Are you referring to my comment about Tommy being Kat and Michaels baby? That was not inferring Michael was more important (although LEGALLY he is),and my point is just that, Alfie has no legal rights over Tommy, he is his step father, and he cannot just stomp off and glare at Kat the way he did. I understand your points about him raising Tommy etc, but he has no legal rights to him, in that respect Michael IS more important.

Regarding your second point, Alfie does not have to be ok with it, but he trying to make everyone else not be ok with it either, when he glared at Kat and stomped off, he was saying to her that he thought she was a bad mother for letting Ronnie stay, he had no right to make that judgement call, I will say it again, Kat is Tommys mother and if she wants to forgive then that is her choice, if Roxy wishes to see her sister then that is her choice, Alfies reactions and comments to both are saying that only his choice is the right one.
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Old 13-09-2013, 18:31
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Are you referring to my comment about Tommy being Kat and Michaels baby? That was not inferring Michael was more important (although LEGALLY he is),and my point is just that, Alfie has no legal rights over Tommy, he is his step father, and he cannot just stomp off and glare at Kat the way he did. I understand your points about him raising Tommy etc, but he has no legal rights to him, in that respect Michael IS more important.

Regarding your second point, Alfie does not have to be ok with it, but he trying to make everyone else not be ok with it either, when he glared at Kat and stomped off, he was saying to her that he thought she was a bad mother for letting Ronnie stay, he had no right to make that judgement call, I will say it again, Kat is Tommys mother and if she wants to forgive then that is her choice, if Roxy wishes to see her sister then that is her choice, Alfies reactions and comments to both are saying that only his choice is the right one.
Why is Alfie not allowed to "stomp off" with Tommy just because he's not his legal parent? He didn't stomp out of the country. He was looking after Tommy and walked away from Kat in anger. He can't glare at Kat or think she's a bad mother simply because he's not legally Tommy's dad? Of course he can. Kat is raising Tommy with Alfie. She cannot tell him he's the dad, let them bond for 3 years and take money from him, only to object when Alfie doesn't agree with her. It can't be both ways.
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Old 13-09-2013, 18:43
ilovenicnacs
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Why is Alfie not allowed to "stomp off" with Tommy just because he's not his legal parent? He didn't stomp out of the country. He was looking after Tommy and walked away from Kat in anger. He can't glare at Kat or think she's a bad mother simply because he's not legally Tommy's dad? Of course he can. Kat is raising Tommy with Alfie. She cannot tell him he's the dad, let them bond for 3 years and take money from him, only to object when Alfie doesn't agree with her. It can't be both ways.
Ok let's not argue about this, it's only a soap maybe I'm biased cos I don't really like Alfie as a character, so can we agree to disagree and move on?
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Old 14-09-2013, 11:48
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Ok let's not argue about this, it's only a soap maybe I'm biased cos I don't really like Alfie as a character, so can we agree to disagree and move on?
It's just the casual comments from people claiming Alfie is not Tommy's dad that annoy me. It's rather awful to read comments like that considering half of my family are not biologically related to me.
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Old 14-09-2013, 11:59
ilovenicnacs
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It's just the casual comments from people claiming Alfie is not Tommy's dad that annoy me. It's rather awful to read comments like that considering half of my family are not biologically related to me.
We are merely stating a fact, that's all, Alfie may well love him as I'm sure your family love you, but that doesn't alter the fact that he is not Tommys father, merely the man who bought him up.

But we are arguing semantics and it is only a TV show, so let's say that although alfie has no rights to Tommy, legally or biologically, he is entitled to love him! Deal
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Old 14-09-2013, 12:22
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We are merely stating a fact, that's all, Alfie may well love him as I'm sure your family love you, but that doesn't alter the fact that he is not Tommys father, merely the man who bought him up.

But we are arguing semantics and it is only a TV show, so let's say that although alfie has no rights to Tommy, legally or biologically, he is entitled to love him! Deal
That's what I mean though. You're basically saying that a father is defined by biology. Alfie is Tommy's dad in every way that truly counts. "Merely the man who brought him up" is very redundant. Most people can have sex and make a baby, but it doesn't make them a true parent if they don't care. I was never arguing that Alfie is not Tommy's biologically father, but I was arguing that he is raising him with Kat and therefore has personal rights. What does legality have to do with emotions?
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Old 14-09-2013, 15:02
felixrex
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We are merely stating a fact, that's all, Alfie may well love him as I'm sure your family love you, but that doesn't alter the fact that he is not Tommys father, merely the man who bought him up.
It's not 'merely stating a fact' though, there's a clear implication behind it; that can't be denied. If there was nothing to be implied by bringing up the fact that 'Alfie's not even his real father' in a discussion regarding his emotions and reaction then it simply wouldn't be brought up.

Personally I find it quite cheap that anybody would resort to demeaning the sincerity of the millions of people in the world who love a non-biological family member as if they were their own flesh and blood just to further vilify a TV character.
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Old 14-09-2013, 15:18
ilovenicnacs
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It's not 'merely stating a fact' though, there's a clear implication behind it; that can't be denied. If there was nothing to be implied by bringing up the fact that 'Alfie's not even his real father' in a discussion regarding his emotions and reaction then it simply wouldn't be brought up.

Personally I find it quite cheap that anybody would resort to demeaning the sincerity of the millions of people in the world who love a non-biological family member as if they were their own flesh and blood just to further vilify a TV character.
Ffs for the last time! The original post was about Alfie being a bully for making out Kat was being a bad mother for letting Ronnie stay, and making Roxy choose between him and Ronnie, if you were in Roxys situation would you want to give up your sister? He was implying that Kat didn't deserve to be Tommys mother because she had started to forgive Ronnie, that was not his decision to make it was Kats, they both tiptoed around him like Kat had nothing to do with Tommy and Alfie was his father! He wasn't, he isn't and he never will be, Tommy can call him dad if he wishes, but he is NOT Tommys father.
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Old 14-09-2013, 16:20
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I really want Kat and Alfie to get back together. They can still be an interesting couple without tearing each other apart. There are too few stable love relationships and marriages in EE and they were a nice, warm pair (ooh missus).
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Old 14-09-2013, 16:22
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Ffs for the last time! The original post was about Alfie being a bully for making out Kat was being a bad mother for letting Ronnie stay, and making Roxy choose between him and Ronnie, if you were in Roxys situation would you want to give up your sister? He was implying that Kat didn't deserve to be Tommys mother because she had started to forgive Ronnie, that was not his decision to make it was Kats, they both tiptoed around him like Kat had nothing to do with Tommy and Alfie was his father! He wasn't, he isn't and he never will be, Tommy can call him dad if he wishes, but he is NOT Tommys father.
So how does any of that dispute my point; that bringing up the fact that Alfie isn't his biological father isn't 'merely stating a fact' as you claimed, but is actually a clear implication that he has less right to an emotional reaction in the situation than he would have if he was the biological father? You explicitly corroborate that view in this post. And that is, as I said, an insult to the millions of people in the world who bring a child up as their own despite not being their biological parent.

And get this - in the real world, Alfie would be Tommy's father. Legally. He was married to Kat when she gave birth and thus his name would be on the birth certificate and he would, in the eyes of the law, be the child's father.
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Old 14-09-2013, 16:36
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Ffs for the last time! The original post was about Alfie being a bully for making out Kat was being a bad mother for letting Ronnie stay, and making Roxy choose between him and Ronnie, if you were in Roxys situation would you want to give up your sister? He was implying that Kat didn't deserve to be Tommys mother because she had started to forgive Ronnie, that was not his decision to make it was Kats, they both tiptoed around him like Kat had nothing to do with Tommy and Alfie was his father! He wasn't, he isn't and he never will be, Tommy can call him dad if he wishes, but he is NOT Tommys father.
It's comments like this that are insulting some people though, myself included. Maybe it's just a case of crossed wires, but it does really sound like you're saying that you can be raised by someone your entire life, but they will never be your parent. Maybe they wouldn't be technically, but they would be in the way it counts the most.
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Old 14-09-2013, 17:00
ilovenicnacs
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So how does any of that dispute my point; that bringing up the fact that Alfie isn't his biological father isn't 'merely stating a fact' as you claimed, but is actually a clear implication that he has less right to an emotional reaction in the situation than he would have if he was the biological father? You explicitly corroborate that view in this post. And that is, as I said, an insult to the millions of people in the world who bring a child up as their own despite not being their biological parent.

And get this - in the real world, Alfie would be Tommy's father. Legally. He was married to Kat when she gave birth and thus his name would be on the birth certificate and he would, in the eyes of the law, be the child's father.
As I said in my previous post, the original debate was about Alfie BULLYING the women, because he felt cut up, and just glaring at Kat and walking off with HER child was not on, it was you and others who have changed the subject.

Guess what, this is not the real world, it's Eastenders, and in Eastenders Alfie put Michael's name on the birth Certificate as Tommys father! So Alfies name is not on his birth certificate, he is divorced from Kat, so has absolutely no legal right or claim on Tommy whatsoever, other than helping his MOTHER to raise him as a step father, now this legal bond has also been broken, so alfie has no legal claim on Tommy whatsoever, and if Kat died tomorrow then Michael would get custody, Alfie would have to go to court.

I'm insulting no one, it is a tv soap! They are not real people, just characters in a tv show, and I doubt in "real life" if Kat would have tiptoed around Alfie when she is Tommys mother and alfie is acting like a,drama queen.

As I said before, if Tommys REAL mother can forgive Ronnie, why should his Fake father tell her otherwise. He can be emotional if he likes, but inflicting pain on Roxy and Kat because they are not being sensitive to HIS needs is unnecessary and bullying.
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Old 14-09-2013, 17:08
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As I said in my previous post, the original debate was about Alfie BULLYING the women, because he felt cut up, and just glaring at Kat and walking off with HER child was not on, it was you and others who have changed the subject.

Guess what, this is not the real world, it's Eastenders, and in Eastenders Alfie put Michael's name on the birth Certificate as Tommys father! So Alfies name is not on his birth certificate, he is divorced from Kat, so has absolutely no legal right or claim on Tommy whatsoever, other than helping his MOTHER to raise him as a step father, now this legal bond has also been broken, so alfie has no legal claim on Tommy whatsoever, and if Kat died tomorrow then Michael would get custody, Alfie would have to go to court.

I'm insulting no one, it is a tv soap! They are not real people, just characters in a tv show, and I doubt in "real life" if Kat would have tiptoed around Alfie when she is Tommys mother and alfie is acting like a,drama queen.

As I said before, if Tommys REAL mother can forgive Ronnie, why should his Fake father tell her otherwise. He can be emotional if he likes, but inflicting pain on Roxy and Kat because they are not being sensitive to HIS needs is unnecessary and bullying.
I'm well aware of what the debate is about on account of the fact that I was the person who started it by refuting the charge that Alfie was a 'bully' for having an irrational reaction in a sensitive situation. You're the one who keeps changing the subject by pretending the discussion is about law and formalities when it was actually about a person's right to an emotional response, which is not a legal matter.

I really don't understand why you're being so temperamental when everything you say basically corroborates my point - that you consider Alfie less entitled to his irrational reaction because he is not Tommy's biological father than he would be if he was his biological father, which; whether you like it or not; is an insult to anybody raising or who has been raised by a non-biological relative. Plain and simple. Nothing you have said denies this. In fact, most of what you have said is just a bizarrely angry reiteration of it, so why you're being so hostile is beyond me.
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Old 14-09-2013, 17:24
ilovenicnacs
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You're the one who keeps changing the subject by pretending the discussion is about law and formalities when it was actually about a person's right to an emotional response.

I really don't understand why you're being so temperamental when everything you say basically corroborates my point - that you consider Alfie less entitled to his irrational reaction because he is not Tommy's biological father than he would be if he was his biological father, which; whether you like it or not; is an insult to anybody raising or who has been raised by a non-biological parent. Plain and simple. Nothing you have said denies this. In fact, most of what you have said is just a bizarrely angry reiteration of it.
I have never said that Alfie wasn't allowed to feel emotional about seeing Ronnie, I said that in my original posts and other threads, the point which was being being made was that ALfie had no right to make Roxy choose between him and Ronnie, when he knows Roxy loves her sister and he had already told her that he was ok with her seeing Ronnie so long as he didn't
have to, yes it must have been a shock to see Ronnie in the Vic, but he made no attempt to discover how or why (in fact it was dots fault for encouraging Ronnie), he just assumed that Roxy had done it to hurt him, which was ridiculous as she thought he would be gone a while and kept telling Ronnie she had to be gone when he came back, then he stormed out with Tommy and then assumed Kat had been in on the whole thing, which apart from showing some compassion to Ronnie (which was her right to do ) she had gone out of her way to keep them apart, yet he automatically blamed her and walked off with HER child, without saying anything.

The reason I sound angry is because I am trying to explain my views on a TV SOAP character, yet you can't seem to get past this (equally bizarre) view that because I think a fictional character overreacted, I am slagging off millions of real life step dads, this is not real life, it is fiction.

Maybe you could accept your final paragraph was wrong about Tommys birth certificate?
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Old 14-09-2013, 17:33
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I have never said that Alfie wasn't allowed to feel emotional about seeing Ronnie, I said that in my original posts and other threads, the point which was being being made was that ALfie had no right to make Roxy choose between him and Ronnie, when he knows Roxy loves her sister and he had already told her that he was ok with her seeing Ronnie so long as he didn't
have to, yes it must have been a shock to see Ronnie in the Vic, but he made no attempt to discover how or why (in fact it was dots fault for encouraging Ronnie), he just assumed that Roxy had done it to hurt him, which was ridiculous as she thought he would be gone a while and kept telling Ronnie she had to be gone when he came back, then he stormed out with Tommy and then assumed Kat had been in on the whole thing, which apart from showing some compassion to Ronnie (which was her right to do ) she had gone out of her way to keep them apart, yet he automatically blamed her and walked off with HER child, without saying anything.

The reason I sound angry is because I am trying to explain my views on a TV SOAP character, yet you can't seem to get past this (equally bizarre) view that because I think a fictional character overreacted, I am slagging off millions of real life step dads, this is not real life, it is fiction.

Maybe you could accept your final paragraph was wrong about Tommys birth certificate?
So when you called Alfie a "fake father" because he's not blood related to Tommy, you were saying something you would never say about someone in real life?
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Old 14-09-2013, 17:53
ilovenicnacs
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So when you called Alfie a "fake father" because he's not blood related to Tommy, you were saying something you would never say about someone in real life?
I think you are deliberately taking my comments out of context, I said "fake father" in the context of Kat being his real mother (and Michael being his real father) as you would know if you had read the post.

Quite frankly this debate is getting boring, we are going around in circles and whilst you know perfectly well the points I'm making, you insist on demonizing me as a hater of step fathers!
That is your prerogative, and it is mine to think Alfie is being a control freak.

No I wouldn't use the word "fake father" to a real life step dad, because I wouldn't have to. It's a soap, what are the chances of this happening in real life (I don't know anyone in Alfies position of being chief revenge seeker, over and above its parents, on behalf of a child who he has no legal or biological relationship with.

I am done with this debate as we will never agree, so don't bother replying if it is just to repeat your views that Alfie has more right to be angry than Tommys REAL parents.
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Old 14-09-2013, 17:56
felixrex
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I have never said that Alfie wasn't allowed to feel emotional about seeing Ronnie, I said that in my original posts and other threads, the point which was being being made was that ALfie had no right to make Roxy choose between him and Ronnie, when he knows Roxy loves her sister and he had already told her that he was ok with her seeing Ronnie so long as he didn't
have to, yes it must have been a shock to see Ronnie in the Vic, but he made no attempt to discover how or why (in fact it was dots fault for encouraging Ronnie), he just assumed that Roxy had done it to hurt him, which was ridiculous as she thought he would be gone a while and kept telling Ronnie she had to be gone when he came back, then he stormed out with Tommy and then assumed Kat had been in on the whole thing, which apart from showing some compassion to Ronnie (which was her right to do ) she had gone out of her way to keep them apart, yet he automatically blamed her and walked off with HER child, without saying anything.
I am thoroughly aware that this is what you were talking about. You don't have to keep repeating yourself. I have read the thread.

However, that is not what I am contending. I have already argued my point in regards to Alfie's behaviour; the point that is being raised now is the fact that you felt it necessary on numerous occasions to specify that Tommy is Michael and Kat's son and not Alfie's whilst arguing your point which obviously suggests that you consider that relevant to the argument; which subsequently implies that you consider his reaction less acceptable for the very reason that he is not Tommy's biological father.

Or would you consider his actions just as unacceptable and unfair if he was Tommy's biological father? Because if that's the case, then I don't see why you felt the need to make the specification about Tommy's parentage in the first place. Which is exactly why this is issue was raised with you - because there seems to be no other logical reason to bring it up unless to suggest that it makes a difference.

The reason I sound angry is because I am trying to explain my views on a TV SOAP character, yet you can't seem to get past this (equally bizarre) view that because I think a fictional character overreacted, I am slagging off millions of real life step dads, this is not real life, it is fiction.
So if Denise was involved in a dispute with somebody on the Square and I was to reason that "Denise is wrong, she shouldn't have done what she did, she had no right to do so because she is black", for instance, that wouldn't actually be considered offensive to black people because I was referring to a fictional black person and not a real one?

Maybe you could accept your final paragraph was wrong about Tommys birth certificate?
Well no, because it was a factually correct statement. In the real world Alfie would legally be Tommy's father. Why would I accept it's wrong when it's true??


I am done with this debate as we will never agree, so don't bother replying if it is just to repeat your views that Alfie has more right to be angry than Tommys REAL parents.
Ahh, and now you're employing a straw man argument.

Nobody has suggested Alfie has 'more right' to be angry than Tommy's 'real' parents, as you so charmingly put it. The point being raised, which you stilll seem to be missing, is that Alfie; as the man considered by all parties to be Tommy's father, as the man who has raised him since birth and as the man who suffered just as much as a result of the babyswap as he would have had he been Tommy's biological father; has as much right to be angry as he would if Tommy was his own flesh and blood. As much right.
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Old 14-09-2013, 18:05
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I think you are deliberately taking my comments out of context, I said "fake father" in the context of Kat being his real mother (and Michael being his real father) as you would know if you had read the post.

Quite frankly this debate is getting boring, we are going around in circles and whilst you know perfectly well the points I'm making, you insist on demonizing me as a hater of step fathers!
That is your prerogative, and it is mine to think Alfie is being a control freak.

No I wouldn't use the word "fake father" to a real life step dad, because I wouldn't have to. It's a soap, what are the chances of this happening in real life (I don't know anyone in Alfies position of being chief revenge seeker, over and above its parents, on behalf of a child who he has no legal or biological relationship with.

I am done with this debate as we will never agree, so don't bother replying if it is just to repeat your views that Alfie has more right to be angry than Tommys REAL parents.
I'm not taking anything out of context. You keep on making comments like the one highlighted. The context doesn't matter, because your underlying statement is the same. I'm not talking about the legal side to Tommy's parentage, which I have stated. When you use words like "fake", you can expect some people who come from adopted families to be annoyed. This exact situation may not occur in real life, but a biological parent could still argue with a step parent over parenting issues. Would you then refer to the step parent as fake? I have never said that Alfie has more of a right, so where did that comment come from?
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Old 14-09-2013, 18:08
T.K. Mazin
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Well said Whedonite and felix. I agree with all your posts and you both made some great points. I wanted to add my own comments to the discussion, but I can't be bothered to get involved . In my mind, Alfie is Tommy's dad - nuff said.
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Old 14-09-2013, 18:21
ilovenicnacs
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I am thoroughly aware that this is what you were talking about. You don't have to keep repeating yourself. I have read the thread.

However, that is not what I am contending. I have already argued my point in regards to Alfie's behaviour; the point that is being raised now is the fact that you felt it necessary on numerous occasions to specify that Tommy is Michael and Kat's son and not Alfie's whilst arguing your point obviously suggests that you consider that relevant to the argument; which subsequently implies that you consider his reaction less acceptable for the very reason that he is not Tommy's biological father.

Or would you consider his actions just as unacceptable and unfair if he was Tommy's biological father? Because if that's the case, then I don't see why you felt the need to make the specification about Tommy's parentage in the first place. Which is exactly why this is issue was raised with you - because there seems to be no other logical reason to bring it up unless to suggest that it makes a difference.



So if Denise was involved in a dispute with somebody on the Square and I was to reason that "Denise is wrong, she shouldn't have done what she did, she had no right to do so because she is black", for instance, that wouldn't actually be considered offensive to black people because I was referring to a fictional black person and not a real one?



Well no, because it was a factually correct statement. In the real world Alfie would legally be Tommy's father. Why would I accept it's wrong when it's true??
Because we are not talking about the real world, we are talking about a fictional soap character! When I talk about Alfies actions and reactions, that is what I am discussing,Alfie, a fictional tv character, nothing to do with the real world, but since you bought it up, in the "real world" Alfie would not automatically be put on the birth certificate just because he was married to Kat, the person who applies for the certificate says which name goes in there, and in this case, Alfie put Michael's name, so legally, both in eastenders and in real life, Alfie has no legal right to Tommy.

I'm not taking anything out of context. You keep on making comments like the one highlighted. The context doesn't matter, because your underlying statement is the same. I'm not talking about the legal side to Tommy's parentage, which I have stated. When you use words like "fake", you can expect some people who come from adopted families to be annoyed. I have never said that Alfie has more of a right, so where did that comment come from?
My husband is adopted, he traced his birth family and has a good relationship with them, unlike his adoptive family with whom he has fallen out due to the fact he always felt like an outsider, he calls his biological mother "mum" and has not seen the woman who bought him up for several years.

I used the word fake to mean as opposed to his real birth father, May be it was the wrong word to use, but you knew perfectly well what I meant.
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Old 14-09-2013, 18:26
ilovenicnacs
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Well said Whedonite and felix. I agree with all your posts and you both made some great points. I wanted to add my own comments to the discussion, but I can't be bothered to get involved . In my mind, Alfie is Tommy's dad - nuff said.
There is no more discussion, if they wish to keep going and telling me how terrible I am for thinking Alfie telling Kat she made the wrong decision because he disagrees with it was wrong then fine.

We all have our points of view and I have now moved on.
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Old 14-09-2013, 18:36
felixrex
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There is no more discussion, if they wish to keep going and telling me how terrible I am for thinking Alfie telling Kat she made the wrong decision because he disagrees with it was wrong then fine.

We all have our points of view and I have now moved on.
Now you're just putting words in people's mouths. You know very well that's not what people are disagreeing with you over. They're disagreeing with your numerous references to Alfie not being his biological father in reference to that point; with the implication being that his behaviour is less acceptable than it would be if he was.
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Old 16-09-2013, 11:09
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My husband is adopted, he traced his birth family and has a good relationship with them, unlike his adoptive family with whom he has fallen out due to the fact he always felt like an outsider, he calls his biological mother "mum" and has not seen the woman who bought him up for several years.

I used the word fake to mean as opposed to his real birth father, May be it was the wrong word to use, but you knew perfectly well what I meant.
My mother does not get along with her birth family (except one member). It's a shame that your husband does not have a good relationship with his mother, but I don't get your point. I never said all adopted people get along with their parents. A lot of people do not have good relationships with their parents whether they are adopted or not. "The woman who brought him up" is still his mum. Unless by "brought him up for several years", you mean he didn't grow up with his adopted family? By "fake father" I thought you meant Alfie is just a stand in. I did not know perfectly well what you meant. You made it sound like you do not think Alfie is important because he's not blood related to Tommy.
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