Is anyone in here going to the gig in Glasgow on Sunday btw? Would be good to hear reports back.
The Nicholas McDonald Appreciation Thread
10 of 290
Not going but I'm sure there will be a blow up on twitter on Sunday about it hopefully someone puts videos on you tube lol
Originally Posted by singlefish:
“It's an 'unders' gig tomorrow. I can just imagine the decibels!
”
“It's an 'unders' gig tomorrow. I can just imagine the decibels!
”
Ah yes, good point. I'd love to hear him sing live but attending a gig would probably be wrong for all sorts of reasons!
I swear I will be concise this time. A novella, maximum.
God yeah, would really like to see all that again, for all the high profile contestants actually. I'm like you I guess in that I'm so much more engaged this year because of there being a contestant I got so besotted with, it makes you want to dig into everything so much more, and be so much less willing to let the unfairness just flow over you.
*Dies*
So so spot on though, and yeah, you could see the point where they said 'f*ck it', someone on Sofabet/Betsfactor said 'watch Louis' because his reaction was the producers' reaction and the point where they all washed their hands of her was so so vivid.
I'm so sceptical about her having any future in music, I know looks >>> talent and she ticks a thousand boxes, but she's no worker and she clearly doesn't really care about music or singing. She's a chancer, that's why I'm so convinced her and her pal just wandered into the audition and the production team just fell on her looks and the fairly decent voice she has. There's nothing else to her. She isn't remotely likeable, not that amazing a singer, there seems to be so little to her.
Aww
But I know what you mean!
Well one very nice sign for Nicholas is that his gig on sunday has been moved from Campus to the Garage, a much bigger (and better) venue, and a lot more tickets released so there's clearly decent demand. I haven't seen that he has anything else lined up which is a pity (especially wondered if he might have done something at the celtic connections festival, big music festival in glasgow in january, not just celtic music any more but I guess the timing all round is bad, both for getting on the programme in the first place and then with xfactor tour rehearsals); it would be really good if he was getting out and performing. But he might be tied by any deal he might have signed, and I guess we're not going to know anything until after the xfactor tour. Which is frustrating!
That's why I wonder if a smaller label might actually be a lot better for him, might be less likely to go down the teeny-bopper path and be more willing to work with him to find good material, especially good original materil which is what he really needs. I'm honestly not trying to bring Luke into every conversation, I just think he (and Rough Copy and Abi) is/are in so much better a position than people like Nick and Sam and the rest because they're writers as well as performers and have all their pre-xfactor identity to build on.
Btw, I'm not trying to advocate pushing a discernibly scottish identity on the music Nick does in future, I'm just saying that there's always been a good audience for good scottish artists doing material that would appeal far more widely, it's just a starting point for building up a wider audience. And having original material to reinforce claims to authenticity would be so valuable. I hope that makes sense :/
That's incredibly perceptive and way beyond what I saw though I guess it's the sort of thing my musician friends saw. Now it's pointed out to me - yes, you're absolutely right. I did see the 'pile on the backing singers for Rough Copy because they can't sing harmonies in tune' thing, but the more subtle stuff with Nick - I didn't see it at the time, but you're right. There was no choir for Someone Like You, which was his standout performance for me, because he didn't need it and because they gave him a fair run that week, and it's a song that's as much about the spaces as about the vocal (even a knuckledragger like me can see that much!).
It's entirely anecdotal, but on the night of the final my twitter feed was full of scots complaining about how Nicholas was being shafted, which really did surprise me, and pleased me that casual viewers were seeing it. Though we need to bear in mind the massive chip on our shoulders, particularly wrt England, that is a fundamental part of the scottish psyche
I watched the announcement of the final two/luke's elimination a couple of times and didn't hear any booing, I hope there wasn't any though I did think it was noticeable how good a reception Luke got from the audience, so perhaps :/ I really hope there wasn't any.
My novella aspirations are kinda blowing in the dust atm, but...
Originally Posted by mmpfb:
“*tips hat*
Well thank you very much. I didn't realise I posted enough on here to be particularly noticed, but I suppose I've been slightly more obsessed about XF this year due to Nicholas and wanting him to do well.
Yep, I am finding the desire to watch all the relevant bits again. It's annoying they don't post judges comments etc on youtube - I'm particularly interested in watching Gary's change from being generally supportive (if not effusive) to calling Nicholas 'middle-of-the-road' (the lols, the LOLS, coming from GB!), to being pretty much spitefully refusing to give Nicholas his dues in the final.”
“*tips hat*
Well thank you very much. I didn't realise I posted enough on here to be particularly noticed, but I suppose I've been slightly more obsessed about XF this year due to Nicholas and wanting him to do well.
Yep, I am finding the desire to watch all the relevant bits again. It's annoying they don't post judges comments etc on youtube - I'm particularly interested in watching Gary's change from being generally supportive (if not effusive) to calling Nicholas 'middle-of-the-road' (the lols, the LOLS, coming from GB!), to being pretty much spitefully refusing to give Nicholas his dues in the final.”
God yeah, would really like to see all that again, for all the high profile contestants actually. I'm like you I guess in that I'm so much more engaged this year because of there being a contestant I got so besotted with, it makes you want to dig into everything so much more, and be so much less willing to let the unfairness just flow over you.
Quote:
“I do find the Tamera stuff amusing. There's a particularly vocal Tamera fan on here who was always accusing Nick of all the things Tamera was also guilty of - the looking uncomfortable during uptempo numbers (she looked far more uncomfortable in both the first week and the Rihanna tribute than Nick did even in disco week imo). Add to that the rather questionable and desperate attempt to sexualise her later in the competition (she might as well have sung The First Time Ever I Saw Your Penis the way she was dancing her fingers up and down that microphone) and it's clear they tried just about everything they could think of to bolster her vote until they just though 'F*** it'.”
“I do find the Tamera stuff amusing. There's a particularly vocal Tamera fan on here who was always accusing Nick of all the things Tamera was also guilty of - the looking uncomfortable during uptempo numbers (she looked far more uncomfortable in both the first week and the Rihanna tribute than Nick did even in disco week imo). Add to that the rather questionable and desperate attempt to sexualise her later in the competition (she might as well have sung The First Time Ever I Saw Your Penis the way she was dancing her fingers up and down that microphone) and it's clear they tried just about everything they could think of to bolster her vote until they just though 'F*** it'.”
*Dies*
So so spot on though, and yeah, you could see the point where they said 'f*ck it', someone on Sofabet/Betsfactor said 'watch Louis' because his reaction was the producers' reaction and the point where they all washed their hands of her was so so vivid.
Quote:
“It will be interesting to see how she does post-show. I've seen nothing to suggest she will go away and 'do a Solange' and come back with something unexpected and interesting, she just doesn't seem to have the work-ethic, the creativity, or even the vaguest interest in music to do so). I suspect she will be snapped up to essentially front a producer's project though, maybe have a couple of mid-charting singles and an underwhelming album, then fade from view. Essentially, a Misha B trajectory, but taking into account Misha B had much more of an identity and is clearly far more creative.”
“It will be interesting to see how she does post-show. I've seen nothing to suggest she will go away and 'do a Solange' and come back with something unexpected and interesting, she just doesn't seem to have the work-ethic, the creativity, or even the vaguest interest in music to do so). I suspect she will be snapped up to essentially front a producer's project though, maybe have a couple of mid-charting singles and an underwhelming album, then fade from view. Essentially, a Misha B trajectory, but taking into account Misha B had much more of an identity and is clearly far more creative.”
I'm so sceptical about her having any future in music, I know looks >>> talent and she ticks a thousand boxes, but she's no worker and she clearly doesn't really care about music or singing. She's a chancer, that's why I'm so convinced her and her pal just wandered into the audition and the production team just fell on her looks and the fairly decent voice she has. There's nothing else to her. She isn't remotely likeable, not that amazing a singer, there seems to be so little to her.
Quote:
“Oh, how I've really come to hate that man now.
Yeah, I take that all on board, and that's why I worry about where Nicholas goes from here - how it turns out is so dependent on other people, not just their own talent in their own roles, but how much effort they put in, and whether they get what makes him special - i.e. a quick-buck Eoghan type album would just be disastrous (obvious statement is obvious).
I can't say I often wish I was a music industry mogul with stellar connections, but this is one of those rare times.”
“Oh, how I've really come to hate that man now.
Yeah, I take that all on board, and that's why I worry about where Nicholas goes from here - how it turns out is so dependent on other people, not just their own talent in their own roles, but how much effort they put in, and whether they get what makes him special - i.e. a quick-buck Eoghan type album would just be disastrous (obvious statement is obvious).
I can't say I often wish I was a music industry mogul with stellar connections, but this is one of those rare times.”
Aww
But I know what you mean!
Quote:
“Yeah, a well-chosen single or EP here and there, without rushing towards an album (maybe looking at an album in a year or so) would be the way to go I'd suggest. Keep him in the public consciousness without rush-releasing an ill-considered cash-in. I do fear they'd go the full-on teeny-bopper route, without giving his voice the prominence it deserves. That balance will certainly be a tricky one to get right, I'd imagine.”
“Yeah, a well-chosen single or EP here and there, without rushing towards an album (maybe looking at an album in a year or so) would be the way to go I'd suggest. Keep him in the public consciousness without rush-releasing an ill-considered cash-in. I do fear they'd go the full-on teeny-bopper route, without giving his voice the prominence it deserves. That balance will certainly be a tricky one to get right, I'd imagine.”
Well one very nice sign for Nicholas is that his gig on sunday has been moved from Campus to the Garage, a much bigger (and better) venue, and a lot more tickets released so there's clearly decent demand. I haven't seen that he has anything else lined up which is a pity (especially wondered if he might have done something at the celtic connections festival, big music festival in glasgow in january, not just celtic music any more but I guess the timing all round is bad, both for getting on the programme in the first place and then with xfactor tour rehearsals); it would be really good if he was getting out and performing. But he might be tied by any deal he might have signed, and I guess we're not going to know anything until after the xfactor tour. Which is frustrating!
That's why I wonder if a smaller label might actually be a lot better for him, might be less likely to go down the teeny-bopper path and be more willing to work with him to find good material, especially good original materil which is what he really needs. I'm honestly not trying to bring Luke into every conversation, I just think he (and Rough Copy and Abi) is/are in so much better a position than people like Nick and Sam and the rest because they're writers as well as performers and have all their pre-xfactor identity to build on.
Btw, I'm not trying to advocate pushing a discernibly scottish identity on the music Nick does in future, I'm just saying that there's always been a good audience for good scottish artists doing material that would appeal far more widely, it's just a starting point for building up a wider audience. And having original material to reinforce claims to authenticity would be so valuable. I hope that makes sense :/
Quote:
“The arrangements is an interesting thing to consider. I didn't think they were that bad at all early on, but certainly Just The Way You Are was a terribly stodgy arrangement of what was originally quite a playful song (and I say that as someone who can;t stand Bruno Mars). Certainly they were generally pedestrian, with not much attempt to 'switch them up'. Then later on they became much more 'filled' within the frequency spectrum. People on Sofabet and here tend to consider massive choirs a pimping, but I actually think for an act like Nicholas they're the opposite - they fill up the mid-range frequencies a vocalist inhabits and give it much less space - it works for a weak singer/singers (i.e. Rough Copy/1D where the backing vocals would basically carry the song, but a vocalist like Nicholas with subtlety and expression in his voice needs room to breathe in)”
“The arrangements is an interesting thing to consider. I didn't think they were that bad at all early on, but certainly Just The Way You Are was a terribly stodgy arrangement of what was originally quite a playful song (and I say that as someone who can;t stand Bruno Mars). Certainly they were generally pedestrian, with not much attempt to 'switch them up'. Then later on they became much more 'filled' within the frequency spectrum. People on Sofabet and here tend to consider massive choirs a pimping, but I actually think for an act like Nicholas they're the opposite - they fill up the mid-range frequencies a vocalist inhabits and give it much less space - it works for a weak singer/singers (i.e. Rough Copy/1D where the backing vocals would basically carry the song, but a vocalist like Nicholas with subtlety and expression in his voice needs room to breathe in)”
That's incredibly perceptive and way beyond what I saw though I guess it's the sort of thing my musician friends saw. Now it's pointed out to me - yes, you're absolutely right. I did see the 'pile on the backing singers for Rough Copy because they can't sing harmonies in tune' thing, but the more subtle stuff with Nick - I didn't see it at the time, but you're right. There was no choir for Someone Like You, which was his standout performance for me, because he didn't need it and because they gave him a fair run that week, and it's a song that's as much about the spaces as about the vocal (even a knuckledragger like me can see that much!).
Quote:
“Hmm. You know that's really interesting actually. I'm half-scot, though essentially English in that I grew up in the South East of England and certainly growing up I eschewed all traces of Scottishness (how I hated my gran when she tried to get me into a kilt!) but I suppose I've noticed something similar, in that the 'cringe' factor seems to have disappeared. I only have an aunt left up in Glasgow, and she's a terrible Daily Mail reading Tory, so not really a benchmark to judge these things by, but certainly on my visits up to the Fringe these last few years there does seem to be a more comfortable embracing of Scottish cultural heritage, something a little more celebratory.
Just anecdotally, with regards to the theory that Louis' constant 'Scotland, he needs your vote' being counterproductive (perhaps deliberately so) , it occurred to me that back when Eoghan was on the show that I gradually went from indifferent to actively hating him because of the constant fishing for Irish votes - the perception did become that he was still in it only because of the 'Irish vote'. So, I guess that counts as a spurious proof-of-concept that the constant regionalisation of contestants does alienate viewers not from those places.
Hmm. Does the general perception up there tally with that though, that he was shafted? I get the feeling that the vast majority of people are terribly unquestioning about his treatment on the show and it's only on here or sofabet where people look into this stuff - though maybe that's because down here people aren't looking for it. Certainly my housemates started taking the piss mercilessly out of me when I would comment about him being sabotaged. They just had no inclination to even consider it as a possibility because they just didn't care. Sadly I suspect that's true of 99% of people.”
“Hmm. You know that's really interesting actually. I'm half-scot, though essentially English in that I grew up in the South East of England and certainly growing up I eschewed all traces of Scottishness (how I hated my gran when she tried to get me into a kilt!) but I suppose I've noticed something similar, in that the 'cringe' factor seems to have disappeared. I only have an aunt left up in Glasgow, and she's a terrible Daily Mail reading Tory, so not really a benchmark to judge these things by, but certainly on my visits up to the Fringe these last few years there does seem to be a more comfortable embracing of Scottish cultural heritage, something a little more celebratory.
Just anecdotally, with regards to the theory that Louis' constant 'Scotland, he needs your vote' being counterproductive (perhaps deliberately so) , it occurred to me that back when Eoghan was on the show that I gradually went from indifferent to actively hating him because of the constant fishing for Irish votes - the perception did become that he was still in it only because of the 'Irish vote'. So, I guess that counts as a spurious proof-of-concept that the constant regionalisation of contestants does alienate viewers not from those places.
Hmm. Does the general perception up there tally with that though, that he was shafted? I get the feeling that the vast majority of people are terribly unquestioning about his treatment on the show and it's only on here or sofabet where people look into this stuff - though maybe that's because down here people aren't looking for it. Certainly my housemates started taking the piss mercilessly out of me when I would comment about him being sabotaged. They just had no inclination to even consider it as a possibility because they just didn't care. Sadly I suspect that's true of 99% of people.”
It's entirely anecdotal, but on the night of the final my twitter feed was full of scots complaining about how Nicholas was being shafted, which really did surprise me, and pleased me that casual viewers were seeing it. Though we need to bear in mind the massive chip on our shoulders, particularly wrt England, that is a fundamental part of the scottish psyche
Quote:
“I must say, I have started to wonder whether it was merely a Scottish thing - not wanting a Scottish winner (if only to avoid the 'confirmation' of the Scottish vote, a backlash, and the potentially damaging PR that could have on both Nicholas and the XF brand). There were some who said Nicky was booed when he got through over Luke. I didn't pick up on it but, if so, wtf London? Argh. So. Many. Questions.”
“I must say, I have started to wonder whether it was merely a Scottish thing - not wanting a Scottish winner (if only to avoid the 'confirmation' of the Scottish vote, a backlash, and the potentially damaging PR that could have on both Nicholas and the XF brand). There were some who said Nicky was booed when he got through over Luke. I didn't pick up on it but, if so, wtf London? Argh. So. Many. Questions.”
I watched the announcement of the final two/luke's elimination a couple of times and didn't hear any booing, I hope there wasn't any though I did think it was noticeable how good a reception Luke got from the audience, so perhaps :/ I really hope there wasn't any.
Quote:
“If yours was a novel, apologies for the trilogy!
And yeah, Happy Christmas!”
“If yours was a novel, apologies for the trilogy!
And yeah, Happy Christmas!”
My novella aspirations are kinda blowing in the dust atm, but...
Been reading through this and thought I'd share this link for you all to see.
http://youtu.be/bLSXuQ4vzJI?t=16m45s
The whole "stop saying that" thing just sums up Louis Walsh. Whilst we'll never know for sure, it wouldn't surprise me if he purposely told the lads in the afternoon "hey guys, i've seen the voting and one of you are heading home" then leaves them alone to discuss who it is.
He's always been an idiot. Some things will never change.
Anyways, I actually liked Nicholas on X Factor, 10 years of the Boys category, and he's sure been one of the better singers I've seen make the live shows.
Some interesting comments here, and i suspect the whole manipulation thing is actually true.
OT; what makes Luke Friend so special when Tabby Callaghan from series 1 finished 3rd practically doing the exact same thing as Luke. He never had success after the show? I'd have loved to have asked Sharon Osbourne that question. i bet she doesn't even remember him despite being his mentor in 2004. LOL
http://youtu.be/bLSXuQ4vzJI?t=16m45s
The whole "stop saying that" thing just sums up Louis Walsh. Whilst we'll never know for sure, it wouldn't surprise me if he purposely told the lads in the afternoon "hey guys, i've seen the voting and one of you are heading home" then leaves them alone to discuss who it is.
He's always been an idiot. Some things will never change.
Anyways, I actually liked Nicholas on X Factor, 10 years of the Boys category, and he's sure been one of the better singers I've seen make the live shows.
Some interesting comments here, and i suspect the whole manipulation thing is actually true.
OT; what makes Luke Friend so special when Tabby Callaghan from series 1 finished 3rd practically doing the exact same thing as Luke. He never had success after the show? I'd have loved to have asked Sharon Osbourne that question. i bet she doesn't even remember him despite being his mentor in 2004. LOL
Originally Posted by Hitstastic:
“Been reading through this and thought I'd share this link for you all to see.
http://youtu.be/bLSXuQ4vzJI?t=16m45s
The whole "stop saying that" thing just sums up Louis Walsh. Whilst we'll never know for sure, it wouldn't surprise me if he purposely told the lads in the afternoon "hey guys, i've seen the voting and one of you are heading home" then leaves them alone to discuss who it is.
He's always been an idiot. Some things will never change.
Anyways, I actually liked Nicholas on X Factor, 10 years of the Boys category, and he's sure been one of the better singers I've seen make the live shows.
Some interesting comments here, and i suspect the whole manipulation thing is actually true.
OT; what makes Luke Friend so special when Tabby Callaghan from series 1 finished 3rd practically doing the exact same thing as Luke. He never had success after the show? I'd have loved to have asked Sharon Osbourne that question. i bet she doesn't even remember him despite being his mentor in 2004. LOL”
“Been reading through this and thought I'd share this link for you all to see.
http://youtu.be/bLSXuQ4vzJI?t=16m45s
The whole "stop saying that" thing just sums up Louis Walsh. Whilst we'll never know for sure, it wouldn't surprise me if he purposely told the lads in the afternoon "hey guys, i've seen the voting and one of you are heading home" then leaves them alone to discuss who it is.
He's always been an idiot. Some things will never change.
Anyways, I actually liked Nicholas on X Factor, 10 years of the Boys category, and he's sure been one of the better singers I've seen make the live shows.
Some interesting comments here, and i suspect the whole manipulation thing is actually true.
OT; what makes Luke Friend so special when Tabby Callaghan from series 1 finished 3rd practically doing the exact same thing as Luke. He never had success after the show? I'd have loved to have asked Sharon Osbourne that question. i bet she doesn't even remember him despite being his mentor in 2004. LOL”
Thank you so much for finding that clip, it's so interesting and I so so wish I knew what was going on there. Louis also says something, 'okay, right..' plus other stuff I couldn't work out, after Nick gets saved - I really want to know what it was all about, and also why his (or otherwise could only have been one of the boys', on reflection maybe only nick's) mic was left open for everyone to hear it! Thank you, very very interesting!
And I, and I'm sure everyone on this thread!, agree with you about how good Nicholas is, I hope he has a great future.
Re your OT, I adore Luke because he's got a ton of talent and ability and charisma, and I love the kind of music he does. He might end up as forgotten as Tabby Callaghan, but at least he's got a lot of original material and he seems to be working like a dog to get himself out there. I think maybe Luke and Nicholas are perfect examples of what a dichotomy the xfactor has ended up being: talented singer-songwriters that are shamelessly using it to promote themselves, v the brilliant amateur singers that never dreamed of anything that find themselves adored by millions. Both absolutely have their place, though maybe not on the same show.
Last edited by sycamore : 28-12-2013 at 23:04
Originally Posted by sycamore:
“I swear I will be concise this time. A novella, maximum.
God yeah, would really like to see all that again, for all the high profile contestants actually. I'm like you I guess in that I'm so much more engaged this year because of there being a contestant I got so besotted with, it makes you want to dig into everything so much more, and be so much less willing to let the unfairness just flow over you.”
“I swear I will be concise this time. A novella, maximum.
God yeah, would really like to see all that again, for all the high profile contestants actually. I'm like you I guess in that I'm so much more engaged this year because of there being a contestant I got so besotted with, it makes you want to dig into everything so much more, and be so much less willing to let the unfairness just flow over you.”
Sod it. I'm going to find the whole series on a torrent somewhere and rewatch. Apart from anything else it might help me fill up tomorrow (getting slightly bored at my mum's) before heading back to London.
Originally Posted by sycamore:
“So so spot on though, and yeah, you could see the point where they said 'f*ck it', someone on Sofabet/Betsfactor said 'watch Louis' because his reaction was the producers' reaction and the point where they all washed their hands of her was so so vivid.”
“So so spot on though, and yeah, you could see the point where they said 'f*ck it', someone on Sofabet/Betsfactor said 'watch Louis' because his reaction was the producers' reaction and the point where they all washed their hands of her was so so vivid.”
Yep, would like to see that again also with the benefit of hindsight and the now seemingly inevitable emergence of the everywoman to Queen Bee narrative.
Originally Posted by sycamore:
“I'm so sceptical about her having any future in music, I know looks >>> talent and she ticks a thousand boxes, but she's no worker and she clearly doesn't really care about music or singing. She's a chancer, that's why I'm so convinced her and her pal just wandered into the audition and the production team just fell on her looks and the fairly decent voice she has. There's nothing else to her. She isn't remotely likeable, not that amazing a singer, there seems to be so little to her.”
“I'm so sceptical about her having any future in music, I know looks >>> talent and she ticks a thousand boxes, but she's no worker and she clearly doesn't really care about music or singing. She's a chancer, that's why I'm so convinced her and her pal just wandered into the audition and the production team just fell on her looks and the fairly decent voice she has. There's nothing else to her. She isn't remotely likeable, not that amazing a singer, there seems to be so little to her.”
I think it will be short-lived, but she'll have a single or two out for sure before in all probability disappearing. She'll take the road of least resistance and ride whatever comes her way, but I doubt anything will sustain.
I'd put money on her being a slightly more tuneful Jentina of Bad Ass Strippa fame (remember her?) - all painfully constructed faux-attitude sex-selling a distinctly average and derivative record, all cobbled together by a room of drunk marketing monkeys. Really only worth remembering for prompting Lady Sovereign's highly amusing diss-response bootleg 'Sad Ass Strippa'.
For reference: Bad Ass Strippa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9b8WRouPBw
Sad Ass Strippa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6BeyDGXQKU
Originally Posted by sycamore:
“Aww But I know what you mean! ”
“Aww
But I know what you mean! ”
Honestly, I'm giving up trying to remain cool and ever so slightly detached from the whole thing. That voice DOES things to me! [Note to self: Try and avoid creepiness]
Originally Posted by sycamore:
“Well one very nice sign for Nicholas is that his gig on sunday has been moved from Campus to the Garage, a much bigger (and better) venue, and a lot more tickets released so there's clearly decent demand. I haven't seen that he has anything else lined up which is a pity (especially wondered if he might have done something at the celtic connections festival, big music festival in glasgow in january, not just celtic music any more but I guess the timing all round is bad, both for getting on the programme in the first place and then with xfactor tour rehearsals); it would be really good if he was getting out and performing. But he might be tied by any deal he might have signed, and I guess we're not going to know anything until after the xfactor tour. Which is frustrating!”
“Well one very nice sign for Nicholas is that his gig on sunday has been moved from Campus to the Garage, a much bigger (and better) venue, and a lot more tickets released so there's clearly decent demand. I haven't seen that he has anything else lined up which is a pity (especially wondered if he might have done something at the celtic connections festival, big music festival in glasgow in january, not just celtic music any more but I guess the timing all round is bad, both for getting on the programme in the first place and then with xfactor tour rehearsals); it would be really good if he was getting out and performing. But he might be tied by any deal he might have signed, and I guess we're not going to know anything until after the xfactor tour. Which is frustrating!”
Yep that's definitely good. Hopefully the interest and goodwill isn't joust localised up there. He announced another gig next week in Hamilton - I'm guessing a much smaller venue (is that pretty much where he's from?). I think he's also doing the customary after-XF slot at G-A-Y in London in the new year as is Luke, I believe. I hope that particular prospect doesn't terrify him too much! I did suggest to my housemate that we go. He rolled his eyes at me
Anyway, I think it's safe to say he's probably my favourite XF contestant ever. Who knows who'd I'd have invested in if he'd come up against Alex or Matt, but it's both nice to have had that investment in a contestant again, albeit frustrating to have watched the show turn on him so blatantly.
Originally Posted by sycamore:
“ That's why I wonder if a smaller label might actually be a lot better for him, might be less likely to go down the teeny-bopper path and be more willing to work with him to find good material, especially good original materil which is what he really needs. I'm honestly not trying to bring Luke into every conversation, I just think he (and Rough Copy and Abi) is/are in so much better a position than people like Nick and Sam and the rest because they're writers as well as performers and have all their pre-xfactor identity to build on.”
“ That's why I wonder if a smaller label might actually be a lot better for him, might be less likely to go down the teeny-bopper path and be more willing to work with him to find good material, especially good original materil which is what he really needs. I'm honestly not trying to bring Luke into every conversation, I just think he (and Rough Copy and Abi) is/are in so much better a position than people like Nick and Sam and the rest because they're writers as well as performers and have all their pre-xfactor identity to build on.”
Yeah, I'm in two minds about this though. On the one hand finding good material is important, but on the other, so is resources, and getting good producers who know how to capture that voice and mix/arrange to allow it's musicality to come through.
Originally Posted by sycamore:
“Btw, I'm not trying to advocate pushing a discernibly scottish identity on the music Nick does in future, I'm just saying that there's always been a good audience for good scottish artists doing material that would appeal far more widely, it's just a starting point for building up a wider audience. And having original material to reinforce claims to authenticity would be so valuable. I hope that makes sense :/”
“Btw, I'm not trying to advocate pushing a discernibly scottish identity on the music Nick does in future, I'm just saying that there's always been a good audience for good scottish artists doing material that would appeal far more widely, it's just a starting point for building up a wider audience. And having original material to reinforce claims to authenticity would be so valuable. I hope that makes sense :/”
Yep, that makes sense. I don't think a discernible Scottish identity would necessarily be a bad thing at all. It might limit his appeal down here a bit more, at least initially, but at least it would be something a little different to the usual. Besides, Rod Stewart played up his 'Scottishness', I remember an album my dad had that's cover was mostly tartan, and it didn't seem to do him any harm.
Another possibility to help getting him out there without having to nail his musical identity immediately would be to have him as a featured vocalist on other acts tracks, a little like they did with John Newman. Of course, that depends entirely on whether those acts would want to use his voice (and I fear he might not be 'cool' enough for many of them)…(I'm actually reminded of Howard Donald on the Xtra Factor here complaining about Luke being eliminated because Nick didn't excite him - Howard f***ing Donald laying claim to musical authenticity… Jesus! It would have annoyed me even more if he hadn't evidently transformed into David Bellamy at some point since I'd last seen him which seemed an apt visual representation of how seriously one should take his views… although I'm coming to the conclusion that even the guests on Xtra Factor are primed as to who to pimp - too many of them this year were banging on about Sam when it didn't seem a natural fit for them)
Originally Posted by sycamore:
“ That's incredibly perceptive and way beyond what I saw though I guess it's the sort of thing my musician friends saw. Now it's pointed out to me - yes, you're absolutely right. I did see the 'pile on the backing singers for Rough Copy because they can't sing harmonies in tune' thing, but the more subtle stuff with Nick - I didn't see it at the time, but you're right. There was no choir for Someone Like You, which was his standout performance for me, because he didn't need it and because they gave him a fair run that week, and it's a song that's as much about the spaces as about the vocal (even a knuckledragger like me can see that much!).”
“ That's incredibly perceptive and way beyond what I saw though I guess it's the sort of thing my musician friends saw. Now it's pointed out to me - yes, you're absolutely right. I did see the 'pile on the backing singers for Rough Copy because they can't sing harmonies in tune' thing, but the more subtle stuff with Nick - I didn't see it at the time, but you're right. There was no choir for Someone Like You, which was his standout performance for me, because he didn't need it and because they gave him a fair run that week, and it's a song that's as much about the spaces as about the vocal (even a knuckledragger like me can see that much!).”
Yep he shines when there's space for his voice. Notice how the following week's 'The Climb' was not only an indentikit arrangement of Joe's version, but packed to bursting with multitracked backing vocals fighting for space in the mid-range - almost drowned him out. Funnily enough, though it's the infamous voice-cracking performance, one of my other favourites of the lives is Halo - that was actually a decent arrangement with space for Nick's voice and when he gets to the mid-register he sounds fantastic (imo) within that sore of soundscape. Just such a shame about that top note (and the subsequent glee from some quarters)
Originally Posted by sycamore:
“It's entirely anecdotal, but on the night of the final my twitter feed was full of scots complaining about how Nicholas was being shafted, which really did surprise me, and pleased me that casual viewers were seeing it. Though we need to bear in mind the massive chip on our shoulders, particularly wrt England, that is a fundamental part of the scottish psyche”
“It's entirely anecdotal, but on the night of the final my twitter feed was full of scots complaining about how Nicholas was being shafted, which really did surprise me, and pleased me that casual viewers were seeing it. Though we need to bear in mind the massive chip on our shoulders, particularly wrt England, that is a fundamental part of the scottish psyche
”
Well that's heartening, at least, even if only Scots noticed it and the English didn't (or didn't care to). I must say the one good thing on the night of the final was noticing how fans of other contestants such as yourself, and a fair few Sam fans, all commented unprompted on how shittily he was being treated. Of course there were still the other ones claiming nothing of the sort was going on, or that it was justifiable because 'he'll have no career' or 'Sam's in a different league', but it's good to see that not everyone is quite so ready to abandon fair-play just as long as it benefits those they prefer.
Originally Posted by sycamore:
“I watched the announcement of the final two/luke's elimination a couple of times and didn't hear any booing, I hope there wasn't any though I did think it was noticeable how good a reception Luke got from the audience, so perhaps :/ I really hope there wasn't any.”
“I watched the announcement of the final two/luke's elimination a couple of times and didn't hear any booing, I hope there wasn't any though I did think it was noticeable how good a reception Luke got from the audience, so perhaps :/ I really hope there wasn't any.”
I saw something on twitter from some bloke who'd said they'd all been told not to boo just before the announcement but some people did anyway (he seemed to be implying that booing was justified because Nick pipped Luke. I mean was it really that surprising given Nick had never been bottom two?). Someone mentioned somewhere on here about a backlash brewing re Nick, so I suppose it was related to that, and it does seem to lend credence that there's a widespread assumption that Nick was just getting by on the mythical Scottish vote. I really don't get it though.
Just a note about Louis and that clip - I'm wondering whether he actually suggested that two of the boys might be in the sing-off. Luke get's through, then he raises the horrifying prospect (to Nick) of being in a sing off against Sam. The three boys all seemed to be incredibly close, even more so than usual.
Also, I'm reminded of that radio interview when Louis chose Nicholas to win over Luke pre-sabotage days… Louis said something that was IMO quite telling about him, he sited Sam's downfall as not listening to his mentor (i.e. Louis). It's a passive-aggresive way to say to Luke and Nick to do what he says without question because he knows best. I think I've mentioned before I suspect he's a control freak. He certainly seems to like to confuse (i.e. f*** with people's heads) to an extent.
Also, I'm reminded of that radio interview when Louis chose Nicholas to win over Luke pre-sabotage days… Louis said something that was IMO quite telling about him, he sited Sam's downfall as not listening to his mentor (i.e. Louis). It's a passive-aggresive way to say to Luke and Nick to do what he says without question because he knows best. I think I've mentioned before I suspect he's a control freak. He certainly seems to like to confuse (i.e. f*** with people's heads) to an extent.
Quote:
“Well that's heartening, at least, even if only Scots noticed it and the English didn't (or didn't care to). I must say the one good thing on the night of the final was noticing how fans of other contestants such as yourself, and a fair few Sam fans, all commented unprompted on how shittily he was being treated. Of course there were still the other ones claiming nothing of the sort was going on, or that it was justifiable because 'he'll have no career' or 'Sam's in a different league', but it's good to see that not everyone is quite so ready to abandon fair-play just as long as it benefits those they prefer.”
“Well that's heartening, at least, even if only Scots noticed it and the English didn't (or didn't care to). I must say the one good thing on the night of the final was noticing how fans of other contestants such as yourself, and a fair few Sam fans, all commented unprompted on how shittily he was being treated. Of course there were still the other ones claiming nothing of the sort was going on, or that it was justifiable because 'he'll have no career' or 'Sam's in a different league', but it's good to see that not everyone is quite so ready to abandon fair-play just as long as it benefits those they prefer.”
Yes, I think casual viewers were totally unaware up until the final when they seemed to have given up on any pretence of subtlety. When Louis urged people to vote Sam my Facebook page was full of 'wtf'! I've noticed fans of others deny this, or say 'well, that's what happens on the x-factor, he should be happy to get that far', or 'that's just Louis', but there was just such a sense of unfairness that grew each week. Maybe it's just because I've really invested a lot in Nicholas (which is unusual as I don't normally give two hoots) but he really does have the most beautiful voice and it makes me sad to think of the battering his confidence must have taken at the expense of so called 'entertainment'.
Quote:
“Honestly, I'm giving up trying to remain cool and ever so slightly detached from the whole thing. That voice DOES things to me! [Note to self: Try and avoid creepiness]”
“Honestly, I'm giving up trying to remain cool and ever so slightly detached from the whole thing. That voice DOES things to me! [Note to self: Try and avoid creepiness]”
Hehehe! I know what you mean. I've been having wee furtive sessions on YouTube. My husband thinks I'm going slightly bonkers. I wonder if I can borrow a teenager to take to The Garage gig...
On that note, and a question which had been posed a good few times re Nicky, who will be his market? I think this is going to be crucial. Twitter and Facebook is awash with teenage fans, with the occasional adult (and occasional older man - mmm that sounds wrong) commenting that they think he is great. I'm thinking the buble route might be a good tactic but I'm hoping a good manager will steer him in the right direction.
Quote:
“There was no choir for Someone Like You, which was his standout performance for me, because he didn't need it and because they gave him a fair run that week, and it's a song that's as much about the spaces as about the vocal (even a knuckledragger like me can see that much!).”
“There was no choir for Someone Like You, which was his standout performance for me, because he didn't need it and because they gave him a fair run that week, and it's a song that's as much about the spaces as about the vocal (even a knuckledragger like me can see that much!).”
Well said and totally agree. Goosebumps stuff (from a fellow knuckledragger!)
Originally Posted by singlefish:
“Queues started outside The Garage already”
“Queues started outside The Garage already
”
Really? It doesn't start until 4 does it?
Originally Posted by singlefish:
“Hehehe! I know what you mean. I've been having wee furtive sessions on YouTube. My husband thinks I'm going slightly bonkers. I wonder if I can borrow a teenager to take to The Garage gig...
On that note, and a question which had been posed a good few times re Nicky, who will be his market? I think this is going to be crucial. Twitter and Facebook is awash with teenage fans, with the occasional adult (and occasional older man - mmm that sounds wrong) commenting that they think he is great. I'm thinking the buble route might be a good tactic but I'm hoping a good manager will steer him in the right direction.”
“Hehehe! I know what you mean. I've been having wee furtive sessions on YouTube. My husband thinks I'm going slightly bonkers. I wonder if I can borrow a teenager to take to The Garage gig...
On that note, and a question which had been posed a good few times re Nicky, who will be his market? I think this is going to be crucial. Twitter and Facebook is awash with teenage fans, with the occasional adult (and occasional older man - mmm that sounds wrong) commenting that they think he is great. I'm thinking the buble route might be a good tactic but I'm hoping a good manager will steer him in the right direction.”
Yeah the market thing would definitely be the tricky thing to get right. I suppose the teenage fan-base must be the strongest bet given the obsessiveness shown by some of the young girls on twitter. I worry that going that route would not let his voice shine, though I suppose they could do what they started doing with 1D and mix in the odd ballad with the simplistic pop anthems and then gradually mature his sound… It would be risky long-term though and it's not what I would want to hear him doing but then I guess I'm not the primary market. He does also have a slightly worrying habit of tweeting 1D lyrics though I find myself hoping that's a clever ploy to stir the directioners hormones into a frenzy
Originally Posted by mmpfb:
“He does also have a slightly worrying habit of tweeting 1D lyrics though I find myself hoping that's a clever ploy to stir the directioners hormones into a frenzy”
“He does also have a slightly worrying habit of tweeting 1D lyrics though I find myself hoping that's a clever ploy to stir the directioners hormones into a frenzy
”
Yeah, I would say a definite ploy. Sam Callahan recently posted a pic of him in a 1D t-shirt!
Shame I don't still live in Charing Cross, I'd have gone to look at the queue
Hehe Yes, it totally was, and it was so so typical that it wasn't the song he did again at the final. They really were blatent.
The girls on twitter are absolutely terrifying.
It'll be really interesting to find out what songs Nick performs today, if it gives any kind of insight into what future direction he might be thinking of going in. If he does anything that he didn't do on the xfactor.
Sam Callahan is utterly shameless
Originally Posted by singlefish:
“Well said and totally agree. Goosebumps stuff (from a fellow knuckledragger!)”
“Well said and totally agree. Goosebumps stuff (from a fellow knuckledragger!)”
Hehe
Yes, it totally was, and it was so so typical that it wasn't the song he did again at the final. They really were blatent.
Originally Posted by mmpfb:
“Yeah the market thing would definitely be the tricky thing to get right. I suppose the teenage fan-base must be the strongest bet given the obsessiveness shown by some of the young girls on twitter. I worry that going that route would not let his voice shine, though I suppose they could do what they started doing with 1D and mix in the odd ballad with the simplistic pop anthems and then gradually mature his sound… It would be risky long-term though and it's not what I would want to hear him doing but then I guess I'm not the primary market. He does also have a slightly worrying habit of tweeting 1D lyrics though I find myself hoping that's a clever ploy to stir the directioners hormones into a frenzy”
“Yeah the market thing would definitely be the tricky thing to get right. I suppose the teenage fan-base must be the strongest bet given the obsessiveness shown by some of the young girls on twitter. I worry that going that route would not let his voice shine, though I suppose they could do what they started doing with 1D and mix in the odd ballad with the simplistic pop anthems and then gradually mature his sound… It would be risky long-term though and it's not what I would want to hear him doing but then I guess I'm not the primary market. He does also have a slightly worrying habit of tweeting 1D lyrics though I find myself hoping that's a clever ploy to stir the directioners hormones into a frenzy
”
The girls on twitter are absolutely terrifying.
It'll be really interesting to find out what songs Nick performs today, if it gives any kind of insight into what future direction he might be thinking of going in. If he does anything that he didn't do on the xfactor.
Originally Posted by singlefish:
“Yeah, I would say a definite ploy. Sam Callahan recently posted a pic of him in a 1D t-shirt!”
“Yeah, I would say a definite ploy. Sam Callahan recently posted a pic of him in a 1D t-shirt!”
Sam Callahan is utterly shameless
Incidentally, I think going the Buble route would be a massive mistake - it didn't work for Leon (or Ray for that matter!!!! cringe) and Buble has that market sewn up all for himself, mostly because of his charisma. Personally I was glad that Louis attempt to make 'Baby Buble' happen fell flat on it's face.
I think this is why good producers are paramount - it's not just about getting the material right, but the sound right also, and that should come from Nick's voice as a starting point and building from there sonically - as I've mentioned above his voice needs room in the mix to shine, whereas much of the current pop-factory product is filled to bursting across the frequency spectrum so that it jumps out on the radio. This is where more left field artists such as the XX or London Grammar, or even James Blake stand apart in the landscape sonically because they eschew the contemporary tendency to make everything everywhere as loud as possible. I'm not saying Nick should go downbeat post-dubstep, but to me these sorts of acts would provide a useful sonic reference point - one of his major strengths is an instinctual understanding of dynamics, and that needs space to flourish.
The other alternative would be something slightly indier/rockier. There's a clip of him pre XF on youtube somewhere of him doing Sex On Fire which sounded great - he really shines doing those souring vocals. His bootcamp performance of I Won't Give Up remains my favourite performance of his, and it's good to look at the edge in his voice there that seemed to get brushed aside during the live shows (I still think he was steered away from the 'indier' stuff by Louis to provide a clear stomping ground for Luke).
Ultimately the ideal scenario would be for good producers to work with him and find out what *he* likes and where he wants to go (because we're all guessing a little here thanks to the XFs customary obfuscation) as well as what works best for his voice. Getting him started on the right path is more important imo than immediate chart success that might ultimately paint him into a corner that's difficult to emerge from.
I think this is why good producers are paramount - it's not just about getting the material right, but the sound right also, and that should come from Nick's voice as a starting point and building from there sonically - as I've mentioned above his voice needs room in the mix to shine, whereas much of the current pop-factory product is filled to bursting across the frequency spectrum so that it jumps out on the radio. This is where more left field artists such as the XX or London Grammar, or even James Blake stand apart in the landscape sonically because they eschew the contemporary tendency to make everything everywhere as loud as possible. I'm not saying Nick should go downbeat post-dubstep, but to me these sorts of acts would provide a useful sonic reference point - one of his major strengths is an instinctual understanding of dynamics, and that needs space to flourish.
The other alternative would be something slightly indier/rockier. There's a clip of him pre XF on youtube somewhere of him doing Sex On Fire which sounded great - he really shines doing those souring vocals. His bootcamp performance of I Won't Give Up remains my favourite performance of his, and it's good to look at the edge in his voice there that seemed to get brushed aside during the live shows (I still think he was steered away from the 'indier' stuff by Louis to provide a clear stomping ground for Luke).
Ultimately the ideal scenario would be for good producers to work with him and find out what *he* likes and where he wants to go (because we're all guessing a little here thanks to the XFs customary obfuscation) as well as what works best for his voice. Getting him started on the right path is more important imo than immediate chart success that might ultimately paint him into a corner that's difficult to emerge from.
10 of 290
